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Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

Current system: RBK50 (claims up to 5,000sq ft) coverage. FW v1.12.0.18

 

Home: 2 story 2,600sq ft, nothing significant from a construction or interference stand point. RBR50 on first floor left side of house. RBS50 on second floor middle of structure. While the orbi has improved sustained throughput to most wireless devices, its signal does not deliver (not even close) to the theoretical sq footage estimate. This was the primary reason for the purchase and is for the most part largely disappointing. I'd rate it at 2,500sq ft maximum. I'm not going through bricks, metal or glass (nothing crazy). Have messed withthe MIMO and beamforming settings as well. Sorry netgear, fail thus far.

 

I'm really not interested in purchasing another RBS50 for $250 when the current broadcast performace is only marginally better in comparison to a WNDR4500 or R6400 that served the house previously. I expected a little bit more from a signal (broadcast) perspective. Comparitively, the R7000 at my other house does better broadcast (signal) wise.

 

New FW:
So I see Netgear has v2.x FW available which I am going to try later today. I'll try turning the broadcast power to 10 and see if things improve. We have no neighbors so I won't be "unfriedly" from that perspective.

 

Now my question. If I put a RBW30 (AC2200) in the "mostly dead" room - which happens to be the room directly above where the RBR50 is now... what will this do to the systems throughput?

 

Please, before everyone replies with their speculation (or what they think) please be certain or have something concrete to backup your answer. Network bandwidth whether maximum or theoretical (in a wireless specific situation) can be affected by a device with slower front/backhaul. In this case a AC2200 sattelite on the AC3000 network. Thus far, I haven't found any documention that answers this question. Great if the AC2200 opearates "isolated" without affecting the entire networks bandwidth, but I'd like to get confirmation on this before investing further in this solution.

 

I hope the v2 FW will improve the broadcast signal strength, as this is my only real complain with the orbi. Throughput is there, I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot and cripple what I have.


Wish the SRK60 was available when I purchased the RBK50. I would have gladly spent the additional money.

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Message 1 of 11

Accepted Solutions

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200


wrote:

Is this a case of the rbk/s 50 have a 2x2 setup vs a 3x3 or whatever the r7000 and r6400 provides to the client devices?

 

i too am curious what effects mixing satellite types does to the back haul. 


Glad you brought this up.

 

I've attempted to do extensive research.  These are not Meraki's, Rukus, etc, enterprise grade devices.  They are consumer grade, and if they supported AP "isolation" (lack of better word) then Netgear would have said "hey, each unit performs independantly".  But they didn't.  Because they can't.

 

Further, With the latest FW, you can change the operate mode from STAR to Daisy Chain...  I can tell you right now that if one of the satellites is relying on a "slower" device in the chain for front/backhaul performance it's not going to run faster than the device is connecting to.  This is confirmation to me that introducing a "slower" upstream device is absolutely going to affect downstream (down the chain) device performance.  So there is no way I'm going to intruduce a slower device to save a buck.  It totally dillutes the purpose of buying the higher priced AC3000 system. 

 

Cheers

 

    

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

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Message 11 of 11

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Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

Crickets thus far.  Am upgrading to the new FW today.  Will post the results.

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 2 of 11

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

Sadly the v2.0.0.74 FW did nothing for broadcast signal to the room directly above the RBR50.  I have 100% stability, connection and bandwidth throughput, but less than expected signal broadcast strength to a room above the router separated by lumber, foam padding, carpet and some drywall.  If I cut a hole in the floor and ceiling I could practically touch the router.  Was hoping for a killer upgrade.  Instead the Orbi RBK50 system for me (in my case) only performs better from a maximum/theoretical bandwidth perspective.  Broadcast signal strength remains disappointing.   

 

My R7000 remains king serving all 2,800sq ft in my other home with a little bit slower throughput.     

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Message 3 of 11
st_shaw
Master

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

 

What you've written doesn't make sense to me.

 

You say the throughput is good, yet you are unhappy because the "signal strength" isn't that great.  Well, throughput is what matters, and you won't get throughput unless the signal strength is adequate. Extra signal strength isn't a good thing either, as it will cause problems with roaming.

 

 

You also wrote you are going to turn the power up to 10 on the new firmware.  Does this mean you don't have the Orbi on full power when you aren't getting the signal strength you'd like? That doesn't make sense either.

 

 

How are you measuring signal strength.   Have you used a decent scanning tool like Acrylic WiFi or inSSIDer on a laptop with a good WiFi adapter to measure the signal strength in dB? What values do you measure that way?

 

I get three full bars on my iPhone 7+ through one floor and ceiling, and you probably should too.  But, if you are getting good consistent speed, then you don't need to worry too much about signal strength.

Message 4 of 11

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

Greetings,

You are correct and and I should have been more clear.  This is exactly the type of dialog I had hoped would come from my post.  Throughput in the "mostly dead" room above the RBR50 is not as good as other areas in the home.  Its really the only area the new Orbi is unable to adequetely serve and ironically, its the closest.  But we all know being close doesn't always guarantee sustained throughput.

 

I used Wi-Fi Analyzer for testing (very similar to inSSIDer).  I did not bother with any heat mapping as this is not business critical. 

 

Since I only have 1 sattelite, roaming and handoff between the router and sattelite is not an issue in regards to transmission power.  If transmit power was available in 1.12.0.18 (I don't recall) then I had it set at max from day one.  I saw however, in the 2.0.0.74 relase notes "Supports radio transmit power control" and though "oh cool" maybe the broadcast signal strength has been further optimized.  Does not appear to be the case. 

 

My staement in regards to stability and throughput references the overall reliability I am seeing with the system.  I am not experiencing disconnections or drops.  Wireless devices come and go, sleep, wake and don't have any issues with connectivity.  I've not had to restart the Orbi(s) or a connected device.  I noted many others mentioning these issues in other posts.  I have had zero issues in this regard.  My point to all of this is that I spent a fair chunk of change for a system that claimed theoretical capability of covering up to 5,000sq ft.  I am only trying to cover about 2,600.  The R6400 provided the same "footprint" of broadcast signal to the home but at AC1750 speeds.  My hope was to get a bump in performance AC3000 as well as improving brodcast signal strenght throughout the entire property.  Given the products rated coverage and multi room design, I felt fairly confident I would see this.  I haven't and thats the disappointment surrounding this solution.  Maybe that helps clear up my previous posts.  I appreciate your response.

 

I'd still like to know if adding an AC2200 satt to the mix will cripple the AC3000 performance in the rest of the home?  Still crickets (anyone?).  If I have to throw another $250 to improve the broadcast signal strenght... then that will bring the solutions overall cost to value ration into question.    

 

Cheers  

 

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 5 of 11
st_shaw
Master

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

 

Throughput in the "mostly dead" room above the RBR50 is not as good as other areas in the home.  Its really the only area the new Orbi is unable to adequetely serve and ironically, its the closest.

  

My staement in regards to stability and throughput references the overall reliability I am seeing with the system.  I am not experiencing disconnections or drops.  Wireless devices come and go, sleep, wake and don't have any issues with connectivity.  I've not had to restart the Orbi(s) or a connected device.  I noted many others mentioning these issues in other posts.  I have had zero issues in this regard.  

 


Based on what you wrote, everything is working perfectly, except throughput is not "adequate" in one particular spot.

 

I don't know what you consider adequate, and you haven't posted quantitative measures, so I can't tell whether you have an acutal issue or a problem with expectations (which is a common issue.)

 

I still don't understand why you would be disappointed.

 

Regarding your one trouble spot...  If your performance is good everywhere except this one spot close to the router, this is clearly an issue with the RF signal propagation and not a problem with the Orbi. There could be metal ductwork or something else in the floor directly above the router causing the issue.  You can probably solve that by moving the RBR50 a few feet.

 

 

Message 6 of 11

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

After reading your recommendation, I moved the base all over the room.  From the center/middle, then to each corner.  Measuring performance after each move.  Result, absolutely no change what so ever in broadcast -dB or performance when measured.  There is no ducting, pipes, wiring, etc.  I know this because I built it.  Because of this I decided not to throw good money after bad.  I considered switching the locations of the base and satellite (upstairs/downstairs) but this would require a drop to an unserved area of the house that only has power.  This would defeat the reason for the Orbi purchase in the first place.   

 

The system performs well, flawlessly from a reliable connectivity standpoint, but range is far, far less that what is stated on either 2.4 or 5Ghz networks. Since I'm not available 24/7 a solution has to be reliable and the Orbi is that.  I don't get calls from family members during the day telling me wi-fi connections are dropping or are unreliable.  All devices connect, sleep, wake and seamlessly roam throughout the house.  Performance is adequate, except for the room directly above the base, truly ironic. 

 

So again, I decided to err on the side of caution and not invest further into this solution.  I'd rate the Orbi's overall cost to value ratio 3/5. Its a little expensive for what you get (claims to deliver).  Your mileage will vary depending on environmental conditions.    My recommendation, if you are looking to add satellites, only use ones with the same AC rating as your base.  This ensures your front/backhaul performance and throughput will be maintained.  Unfortunately they come at a cost that dramatically increases the initial investment.   

 

Would I recommend the Orbi to others?  That depends.  Its definitely one of the better solutions if you are comparing to eero, google mesh or velop, but I was expecting a little more.  It is what it is. (famous last words).       

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 7 of 11
st_shaw
Master

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

Thanks for posting an update.

 

What does the following mean in your post?

 

"~R7000 1.0.7.6_1.1.99
~R6400 1.0.1.24"

 

Message 8 of 11
Shotround
Apprentice

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200

Is this a case of the rbk/s 50 have a 2x2 setup vs a 3x3 or whatever the r7000 and r6400 provides to the client devices?

 

i too am curious what effects mixing satellite types does to the back haul. 

Message 9 of 11

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200


wrote:

Thanks for posting an update.

 

What does the following mean in your post?

 

"~R7000 1.0.7.6_1.1.99
~R6400 1.0.1.24"

 



Those are the other Netgear devices I use/own and the firmware versions they are running.

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 10 of 11

Re: Wireless Performance Mixing AC3000 / AC2200


wrote:

Is this a case of the rbk/s 50 have a 2x2 setup vs a 3x3 or whatever the r7000 and r6400 provides to the client devices?

 

i too am curious what effects mixing satellite types does to the back haul. 


Glad you brought this up.

 

I've attempted to do extensive research.  These are not Meraki's, Rukus, etc, enterprise grade devices.  They are consumer grade, and if they supported AP "isolation" (lack of better word) then Netgear would have said "hey, each unit performs independantly".  But they didn't.  Because they can't.

 

Further, With the latest FW, you can change the operate mode from STAR to Daisy Chain...  I can tell you right now that if one of the satellites is relying on a "slower" device in the chain for front/backhaul performance it's not going to run faster than the device is connecting to.  This is confirmation to me that introducing a "slower" upstream device is absolutely going to affect downstream (down the chain) device performance.  So there is no way I'm going to intruduce a slower device to save a buck.  It totally dillutes the purpose of buying the higher priced AC3000 system. 

 

Cheers

 

    

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

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Message 11 of 11
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