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Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Mstrbig
Master

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@testuserguy wrote:
I think that the lowering of the transmission power could be helpful for me as well, given that I have one device that connected to the router over 30ft away, meanwhile, the satellite is next to it with only 3 feet in between. When lowering the transmission power, can you lower it for specifically the router, or for a specific satellite?

Lowering the power is not the issue. also, why would you want to lower the power unless your environment is too small for your system and your satellite is too close to the router?

The issue that has been continuously reported in this thread is usually due to the router holding memory of the specific satellites and devices.

As an example I have a TV that always wants to connect 2.4Ghz to a satellite, when it support 5Ghz and is 10 feet from the router. The scheme used by the router probably determines the device signal is too strong so it connects 2.4Ghz to a satellite that is 25 feet away. I also have 1 camera and 1 thermostat that always wants to connect to a satellite that is 30 feet away, when there is a satellite 10 feet from the camera and thermostat. 

I found going into the device and forgetting the network, then rebooting the router and devices clears the cache and fixes the issues of devices connecting to the wrong router or satellite. Sometimes it takes more than once to correct the connections.

Also make sure "Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence" is unchecked.

Message 26 of 64
schumaku
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@Mstrbig wrote:

The issue that has been continuously reported in this thread is usually due to the router holding memory of the specific satellites and devices.


The router does neither remember nor control where the client does connect to. This is a myth.

 

@Mstrbig wrote:

As an example I have a TV that always wants to connect 2.4Ghz to a satellite, when it support 5Ghz and is 10 feet from the router.

... 

I found going into the device and forgetting the network, then rebooting the router and devices clears the cache and fixes the issues of devices connecting to the wrong router or satellite.


This makes some sense: It's initially 100% up to the client to select from the list of BSSID identified by the same SSID, and attempting to establish the wireless association.

 

Each radio/SSID pair has a unique BSSID - take it as an individual radio MAC for each SSID. On a new connection, the client does look out for SSID and does start acquiring the BSSID. Some clients try to connect to the first occurrence, some clients try to find two BSSIDs for both bands. Algorithms and results vary. Advanced clients (mesh capable clients) build a list of BSSIDs for the same SSID, and create a priority list or qualify each BSSID (signal level, band preference, channel usage, ...) and connect to the BSSID with the highest result. This process is continuously repeated, if other BSSID show up with better results, the client will roam to the better BSSID. 

 

The Orbi router does just collect the information from it's local AP or the satellite AP to show to which band, and to which AP, and to which radio the client is connected to. Anything else is a myth again.

 

@Mstrbig wrote:

Sometimes it takes more than once to correct the connections.


The WiFi adapter algorithms implementation vary - so can the results. The older or less sophisticated the wireless client is, the worse the results. And the higher the risk that it can't take the advantage of what makes up a wireless Mesh. 

 

When a device connects to an access point serving both bands, the access point will determine it's dual-band capability. If positive, the access point will "motivate" the device to connect on 5 GHz BSSID by rejecting any attempt connecting connect to the 2.4 GHz BSSID. This is called band steering.

 

If a radio is occupied to a high load, e.g. 80% or so, it might be able reject the connection attempt to both band BSSIDs, expecting it will find a better BSSID in it's list. This is called load steering - and can lead a client to connect to another AP (router or satellite) farther away.

Message 27 of 64
testuserguy
Guide

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Good answer. That does clear some things up, and makes me think that my cameras are the issue. To answer your earlier questions, schumaku, the device in question is the Eufy 2K Indoor Camera. I do see that they appear to switch between a further away satellite, a 3 foot away satellite, but most of the time stay on my router. And no, none of this is due to a power outage or an outage of any sort.

 

Late last night, 1 camera decided to connect to the 3 foot away satellite, and was connected to the router in the morning. So, I don't necessarily see this as a supported channels issue, seeing as the cameras for some duration of time have successfully connected to the satellite riding on 2.4ghz.

 

It's starting to sound like it really does just come down to what the camera wants to connect to, and limiting the transmit signal power seems irrelevant of an answer. I should note that I cannot clear "cache" of any access points previously connected by the camera.

Message 28 of 64
fmalloy
Luminary

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@schumaku wrote:

@Mstrbig wrote:

The issue that has been continuously reported in this thread is usually due to the router holding memory of the specific satellites and devices.


The router does neither remember nor control where the client does connect to. This is a myth.

If this is the case, why is it when I turn off WiFi from my iPhone that it remains in the Devices list showing which sat/router its connected to, its IP address, link rate, etc for quite some time?


 

Model: RBR20|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 29 of 64
testuserguy
Guide

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

I've noticed that the router is less than stellar at keeping things up to date. This could be cached with the web service, but not in actuality. I've seen one of my cameras missing for over an hour on the router, but I can access it just fine. It's just a pretty crappy web service that's very much Web 1.0 on the front end.
Message 30 of 64
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@testuserguy wrote:

Good answer. That does clear some things up, and makes me think that my cameras are the issue. To answer your earlier questions, schumaku, the device in question is the Eufy 2K Indoor Camera.


Amazon seems to have two Eufy 2K indoor cameras, both selling for $39.99  Which one do you have?

Message 31 of 64
testuserguy
Guide

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Hi Crimp0n, I actually have both the static (non-pan/tilt) and the kind that can pan. So both cameras, but I believe that the only difference is the mechanical ability to pan and tilt. 

Message 32 of 64
schumaku
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@fmalloy wrote:

@schumaku wrote:

@Mstrbig wrote:

The issue that has been continuously reported in this thread is usually due to the router holding memory of the specific satellites and devices.


The router does neither remember nor control where the client does connect to. This is a myth.


If this is the case, why is it when I turn off WiFi from my iPhone that it remains in the Devices list showing which sat/router its connected to, its IP address, link rate, etc for quite some time?


Two different things in fact. What Iv'e explained above is the pure interaction between the wireless STA (stations), the wireless client and the SSID with different BSSIDs on the various radios.  

 

Each radio does create STA association and disassociation events. This should allow "Orbi" maintaining a list on each access point and/or on the router management point. These event or the lists need to be collected on the management base, which is on the router and should allow showing up2date information on connected and disconnected WiFi clients - almost just in time on the same local network. I have no idea why Netgear's Orbi implementation is that flawed with showing no, wrong, outdated, whatever information to the user (see all the related threads in the community!). It's a little bit different when we talk of a cloud system, like Netgear Insight where probably not each and every event is immediately sent to the cloud where the UI is - there I can understand some delays until the state from some minutes ago can be visible. 

Message 33 of 64
Rrodrigm
Initiate

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

After a couple of days of frustration I realized the problem in my case was the Mac access control. I login in the url 102.68.1.1 as admin, Under advanced -> access control I turned it off that solved my issue. Immediatelly devices connected to the closes satellite and router. I hope that helps.

Good luck!

Model: RBR20|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 34 of 64
Hanluu
Guide

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Work very well after turn off access control. Thank you very much.
Message 35 of 64
Wick2021
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Hi all, we have this not connecting to the closest satellities issue and the remote access problem for over 2 years still not resolved. These Orbi system proven doessn't work. We should all return the satellies and keep the router so we don't waste the money.

 

Message 36 of 64
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

My RBR and RBS work fine with my devices. 

 

Placement, distance and configuration is key. It's also up to devices to pick and choose which signal they connect too, not Orbi. 


@Wick2021 wrote:

Hi all, we have this not connecting to the closest satellities issue and the remote access problem for over 2 years still not resolved. These Orbi system proven doessn't work. We should all return the satellies and keep the router so we don't waste the money.

 


 

Message 37 of 64
Wick2021
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

It doesn't a matter if you don't have problem. If it doesnt work as expected, why we need to keep it. If yours doesn't have issue, suggest you to keep it. If ours doesn't work and noboby can help to resolve the issues, why we need to keep it but not trying the other brand. This not connecting issue has been an issue over 2 years. And as of today, there issue is still here, no support has been given ...... Also, the remote access is another issue that Netgear can't resolve... I have one router and 3 satellites. Waste all my money.  

Message 38 of 64
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Then post more details and maybe we can help you out. Troubleshooting steps should be checked. Many factors that cause problems and may not be just a orbi problem. If your been experiencing this issue for 2 years and just bringing it up now, then maybe you should have earlier...

 

Otherwise, find something that does work for you. 

 

Good Luck. 

Message 39 of 64
schumaku
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@Wick2021 wrote:

not connecting to the closest satellities issue


Here again, the clients decide about the access point to be connected.

 

Are we talking about dumb clients on 24*7 connecting to the router when the Orbi system is started, before the Orbi satellites are coming on air? Not much Orbi can do under these conditions.

 

Explain the problem you are experiencing. Crystal ball is on service.

 


@Wick2021 wrote:

and the remote access problem


Off topic here. What problem please? The fine manual does explain it like this:

 

===

Use remote access
To use remote access:
1. Launch a web browser on a computer that is not on your home network.

2. Type your router’s WAN IP address into your browser’s address or location field followed by a colon (:) and the default port number (8443) or custom port number.
For example, if your external address is 134.177.0.123 and you use port number 8443, enter https://134.177.0.123:8443 in your browser.

===

 

If the Orbi router does not have a public routeable IPv4 addess exposed to the Internet, if thee is some Carrier Grade NAT, if the ISP is using different NATing, if there is a provider router in front of the Orbi router, if there is a ISP side firewalling in place, this dead simple remote access can't work. 

 

 

Message 40 of 64
Hanluu
Guide

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Did you try to turn off access control.
I have same problem but after turn off access control. It worked very well
Message 41 of 64
Ekcj
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

I have the same problem, but to add to that, all devices that are connecting to the router instead of the satellite are connecting in the 2.4GHz network. Also, the satellite is in the same room as the devices that are connecting to the router, which is probably 30-40 feet away and through a few walls. I thought the system would look for the “best” connection giving preference to the closest satellite (or router) and giving priority to a 5 GHz channel instead. It seems this is a common problem and probably more common than is reflected here because unless you paid attention in the app, you might not know.
Message 42 of 64
Ekcj
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

I have an RBR850 system and wondered this as well - when the system goes down and re-boots, the router comes on first and I assume devices try to latch onto the router as soon as it’s back up and running. Then when the satellites kick back on, the devices assume they don’t need to switch to the satellite, so they stay connected to the router, which is farther away and at the slower 2.4GHz band instead of 5GHz, which it could do. I sure wish I was reading solutions to this problem. Turning down the power seems counter-intuitive when the reason I bought this sytem was because of its power.
Message 43 of 64
Ekcj
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

This makes sense, but I have 80 devices in my home and the reason I got the RBR850 system is because it claims to handle more than 100. Netgear needs to update their firmware to make this happen automatically.
Message 44 of 64
Ekcj
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

It’s not solved, only a cumbersome workaround.
Message 45 of 64
schumaku
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@Ekcj wrote:
Then when the satellites kick back on, the devices assume they don’t need to switch to the satellite, so they stay connected to the router, which is farther away and at the slower 2.4GHz band instead of 5GHz, which it could do.

The answer of the IEEE standardisation is Radio Resource Management (802.11k), specifically the Neighbor Request/Report feature.

 

Doing the Neighbor Request and evaluate the the returned “Neighbor Report” report containing information about neighboring access points (BSSIDs on the same SSID) which are known candidates for the client to re-associate with (should the client choose to do so). Therefore, the Neighbor Report request/report pair enables the client to collect information about the neighboring APs of the AP it is currently associated to and this information may be used as identification of potential candidates for a new point of attachment. 

 

This does relief the client engaging in time consuming scanning activity - either actively probing for APs or passively listening to every channel for beacons - the client can instead narrow its list down to the known available neighbors. This is especially useful in environments where multiple WLANs (SSIDs) can be heard by the client

 

Further on, it will massively the client power consumption – the time taken by scanning (especially active scanning) also consumers battery power for the client. Since the 802.11k Neighbor Report provides information before roaming, less power may be consumed thanks to more efficient use of WLAN “air time”, read the active scanning it is not only time consuming from the client perspective resources (CPU load, memory, radio, etc.), it’s also about “air time” consuming.

 

For example, a client that is not neighbor aware (a non-802.11k compliant client) will likely engage in wildcard probe requests, where some clients will burst these. In this scenario, typically every AP that hears the probe request will generate a probe response. In other words, for a single client, a number N of APs will generate N probe responses. If multiple clients engage in wildcard probing, then the RF environment can quickly become “polluted” with management traffic simply because the clients are not using neighbor request. This has a negative impact for the entire WLAN. Stupidly enough: Even in the year 2021 there are still IoJ WiFi clients which avoid this very basic probing for various reasons (some lised above, but last but ot least just lazy implementation lucky enough to be able to find and talk to the first best AP they discover.. And I have not talked about the lack of 802.11k capabilities here yet....

 

Lack of known connection attempts to the better suited APs, a very wild idea would be randomly force a disconnect on lower signal level and quality clients. This would force these dumb (sorry saying) WiFi clients to re-scan the air for the best available band and BSSID AP. But this forced disconnect would not be considered as a very wise decision again...but this would likely make the dumb IoJ talk to the "best" suited AP.

 

Said that - and I know it's the answer some people don't like: Complain to the IoJ makers!

Message 46 of 64
PreetS
Initiate

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Faced the same issue and then I realized two things
1. My satellite firmware was not updated to the latest one
2. The back haul link status as coming as poor.

Version upgrade did not solve my issue but resolving the backhaul status by repositioning the satellite did the trick.

Hope it helps
Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 47 of 64
mrmecho
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

It’d be nice if the Orbi router would block client connections when power cycling until it detected all satellites reporting online so then clients could better detect a closer AP. This might not be ideal but could help this situation with clients not connecting to the closest AP.
Message 48 of 64
Ekcj
Aspirant

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite

Interesting that their dropdown when writing a post doesn't have an option for the RBR850. But I agree with you 100%. There are times when I power cycle the units, brief power outage, etc. and when everything is back up and running, some satellites have no devices connected to them. How is that possible? My wish: devices connect based on 5GHz first - check router and satellites for that connection first and if there is one that has a sufficient signal, connect to it. If the signal for 5GHz isn't suficient, drop back to 2.4GHz, but connect to the one that has the strongest signal. When I look at my devices and determine what each one is connected to, for many of my devices, it makes no sense to me at all, where it's connecting. Yeah, I wish Netgear would fix this. 

Message 49 of 64
schumaku
Guru

Re: device not connecting to closest satellite


@Ekcj wrote:

There are times when I power cycle the units, brief power outage, etc. and when everything is back up and running, some satellites have no devices connected to them. How is that possible?  


Simple: The clients are able to establish a wireless session to the primary router, the signal isn't poor enough.

 


@Ekcj wrote:

My wish: devices connect based on 5GHz first - check router and satellites for that connection first and if there is one that has a sufficient signal, connect to it. If the signal for 5GHz isn't suficient, drop back to 2.4GHz, but connect to the one that has the strongest signal. 


Well, this is not how wireless clients are working. We configure them to connect to a certain SSID, the first at that moment best radio will be connected. Decent WiFi clients re-evaluate the situation (alternate BSSIDs - these can be the same or a different band and/or device), modern WiFI clients will also evaluate the RRM radio resource management information providing a list of BSSIDs for the same SSID and re-associate to what the client does find suits better.

 

The AP could under certain conditions reject the connection on a certain device or radio. This can again cause unexpected issues especially on "dumb" WiFi clients (like certain IoT).

 

 

Message 50 of 64
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