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Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

MrMediaGuy
Guide

"Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

RBR50 and my two satellites (RBS50 + RBW30) were very stable out of the box for a couple of months now after getting the initial configuration right. However after updating (involuntarily!) to the "auto-updating" firmware and getting V2.3.1.44 pushed out, I now have weird issues where the Attached Devices page shows the two satelittes continually looping between "Good" backhaul and "Config Sync" status.

 

I have factory reset the router and both satellites and set them up from scratch with the same result -- no change. However what's odd is that the status lights on the router and satellites are fine -- there's no visual indication that anything is resyncing, and the clients attached to each device aren't dropping off or having any connectivity or speed issues when "Config Sync" is being displayed.

 

So what I'm wondering is, is it just the status page and the app that aren't correctly showing what's happening? In other words, if I wasn't looking explicitly at the status of the system, I'd never suspect anything is wrong -- so maybe it's just a bug in the status and not really happening?

 

The other thing that's odd is that the network configuration as shown in the app (Android, latest version) has gone haywire since the update to the latest firmware. I have daisy-chain turned "on" in the router settings, but because the router is in the middle of my two satellites and they're at opposite ends of the house, it's never defaulted to a mesh or chain topology before -- it's always a tree with the router at the top. However now, the configuration of the satellites changes in real time from a tree to a daisy-chain and back, and the status indicators in the app change from green to amber to red and back fairly randomly. But once again, the "real-world" behavior of the system isn't anything like that. I think if the topology on the backhaul were really changing like that all the time, I'd be seeing all kinds of issues -- but it's working fine.

 

Anyone else experience this? Could it just be bugs related to the status reporting only and not anything to do with actual performance?

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System, RBW30| Orbi Wall Plug Satellite
Message 1 of 38
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

After you did a reset and setup from scratch, how did you connect the satellites back up? Buttons in back? 

Is Daisy Chain enabled? 

Wired or wireless connected with the satellites? 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

 

Turn on Beamforming.

 

You might try a factory reset on just one satellite, turn OFF the other. Set up the satellite again and wait for the BLUE led on top. Set up a reserved IP address ON the base router for the satellite. 

 

Message 2 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

All good questions!

 

  • For the reset, I took the main router offline first. Then I paperclip-reset both satellites to factory and unplugged them both. Then I turned the router back on and reset *it* next, then set it up completely wtihout either satellite. Then I added back the RBS50 first, got it synched and stable, and then added the RBW30 and did the same.
  • Daisy chain is enabled. When I first got the system about two months ago, it was pretty unstable without daisy-chain enabled -- even though as I mentioned it previously only connected in a tree topology and not a daisy-chain.
  • Backhaul is wireless on both satellites and has always been super fast and stable prior to the latest FW update.
  • Router is sort of "in the middle," in the den where my cable modem is located. One satellite is about 35 feet away with lots of walls in between in the back bedroom, and the other is in the kitchen about 35 feet away in the other direction. (In other words, it's about 70 feet between the two satellites, with the router in between.) Never had any issues before.
  • Beamforming is off. I have about 7 Amazon Echo devices, and when beamforming is on they all drop their connections pretty regularly, so I have been running with it off for two months with no issues.
  • Both satellites have a reserved IP address (.2 and .3 right after the router, .1)
Message 3 of 38
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Lets try and disable Daisy Chain...wondering if distance maybe too far fo satellites to connect to each other if DS is enabled. 

Message 4 of 38
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Yes, I had the same experience post v210. You can read this "New firmware 2.3.1.44" thread:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/New-Orbi-RBR50-RBS50-Firmware-Version-2-3-1-44/m-p/1725013#M56...

and search for "config_sync". If you have separate SSIDs, try the suggested solution. Otherwise, the best option would be to stick with v210, which doesn't suffer from this problem.
Message 5 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Unfortunately, I am using separate SSIDs. When I first got the Orbi a couple of months ago, I was actually going to reconfigure my roughly 30 or so client devices that were using my former 5G SSID even though I wasn't happy about having to do it. But I noticed right away that a couple of my older iPads which, although they were 5G capable, were definitely *not* happy with bandwidth steering. They were constantly flipping between bands and the throughput was super slow. So as a result of that, and coupled with the irritation of having to reconfigure a bunch of devices with new SSIDs, I elected to set up a separate SSID for 5G just as I'd always had. This worked great up until the new firmware.

 

So, I think I'll just downgrade back to 210 and see if that solves the problem.

Message 6 of 38
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Try doing a reset and setup from scratch. This time, don't separate the SSIDs, Smart Connect and single SSID works. 

 

In recent version of FW, you can temporarily disable either 2.4 or 5Ghz SSID while you get devices setup. This new feature seems to help devices that only support 2.4Ghz on the setup device.

 

Try this before downgrading. 


@MrMediaGuy wrote:

Unfortunately, I am using separate SSIDs. When I first got the Orbi a couple of months ago, I was actually going to reconfigure my roughly 30 or so client devices that were using my former 5G SSID even though I wasn't happy about having to do it. But I noticed right away that a couple of my older iPads which, although they were 5G capable, were definitely *not* happy with bandwidth steering. They were constantly flipping between bands and the throughput was super slow. So as a result of that, and coupled with the irritation of having to reconfigure a bunch of devices with new SSIDs, I elected to set up a separate SSID for 5G just as I'd always had. This worked great up until the new firmware.

 

So, I think I'll just downgrade back to 210 and see if that solves the problem.


 

 

Message 7 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

I'd be happy to use a single SSID -- it's really more just not wanting to configure 30+ devices. (I have about 30 devices set up on the old "5G" SSID, and another 20 or so on my old 2.4G SSID. Whichever SSID I pick as the single one, I still have to reconfigure a lot of devices either way.)

 

Honestly, I might not even downgrade -- the truth is, it's working perfectly fine; it just "thinks" it's not working right. The satellites are definitely *not* dropping off or reconfiguing regardless of what the Web interface and the app are showing. I have streaming cameras connected to both satellites and the video is rock solid; same thing with my VOIP phone that's connected to one of the satellites via Ethernet. If they really were reconfiguring or resyncing, I would see that in the client connections for sure. Even when the app is showing the topology changing from tree to daisy-chain, that doesn't seem to be "actually" happening; even the Web interface consistently shows both satellites under "Connected Orbi" as always connected back to the router. 

 

So maybe the solution is to just ignore the browser and the app and use my fast, stable connections and be happy. 🙂

Message 8 of 38
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

I presume then the config sync issue is due to the separation of the SSIDs and thus is causing confusion of the supported system using a unsupported SSID. 

 

Might just bite the bullet and find the time to reconfigure. This is one reason why not to separate SSID. Eventually something happens and trying to keep an unsupported configuration leads to problems and re-configuration is needed to ensure the system is working as it was intended and designed. We can presume this is not an issue with FW then. 

 

Just saying. 

Message 9 of 38
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

For me, my Satellites are also working normally for a few days until my family members started to complain. Then I discovered that my Satellites had trouble and lost connections to the internet. So I decided to throw in the towel and merged my SSID back into one. The Orbi/Genie Apps are also back to normal behaviors afterward. It's been smooth sailing since.

You can try to do a Firmware Update check to see if your Satellites are able to verify their firmware version normally as the Router or they're flipping between "Waiting for connection" or not. If not, then it's all good.

As you said, if it's working normally and you are happy, then stick with the current setup.
Message 10 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Well, as you suspected, the Firmware Update check was no good -- just "Waiting for Connection" on the satellites. So I bit the bullet and went back to one SSID as a test. It *did* solve the problem with the satellites reporting "Config sync," everything was good and solid, and the app also showed the right "tree" topology with solid green on both satellites. 

 

Unfortunately the good news stopped there; my two older-gen iPads went from getting about 50Mbps on Speedtest down to about 3Mbps (I presume because they kept switching bands) regardless of whether they were associated with the router or one of the satellites. Same issue with a couple of other devices with older WiFi chipsets -- they just do not like bandwidth steering at all.

 

So I downgraded everything to firmware 210 and everything is perfect once again. It kind of sucks not to be able to update to newer firmware when it comes out and to have to continue to run an unsupported configuration, but until all of my older devices are gone I just don't think I can reliably use a single SSID.

Message 11 of 38
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Did you have Beamforming and MIMO enabled when you were at v44 on single SSID? 

I would have given more time for the system to settle in and the pads to settle in and do a bit more testing witht he configuration. Seen odd issues with apple devices. 

Also next time, try this:

Advanced Wireless Settings both 2.4GHz and 5GHz changed CTS/RTS Threshold to 2307. Change preamble modes to long preamble, and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. 

 

As older pads don't get updated, there wifi driver may besome less compatible with newer router FW. 

Message 12 of 38
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

@MrMediaGuy 

 

Yeah, v210 has been solid for me as well.

 

If you haven't already, try these options and see if it works out for you.

 

1. Disable 20/40 MHz Coexistence

4. Enable Implicit BEAMFORMING - Boosts WiFi speed, reliability, & range for all mobile devices

5. Enable WMM (Wi-Fi multimedia) settings

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 13 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

To the above questions . . . 

 

  • I've had Disable 20/40 turned on (disabled) from the beginning, so no idea if that ever made a difference
  • WMM has been on from the beginning
  • MU-MIMO has been off. I did enable it in my first week with the Orbi system a couple months ago and it seemed less stable so I turned it back off.
  • I've really wanted Implicit Beamforming to work but it's always been a disaster, and I've tried it about four times over the past couple of months. It doesn't really mess up any of the client connections, but for whatever reason when I turn it ON, it makes the satellites go from "Good" to dropping down to "Poor" every few minutes and then going back. And yes, I know that's ridiculous as it should have NOTHING to do with the backhaul connection -- but I can't argue with observed reality. So I've kept it off.

Bottom line is that it's working great on 210 so I'm going to call it a day for now. Maybe after another FW release or two I'll try it again and see if I can go back to one SSID. 

 

For what it's worth, on some level I'm just frustrated that bandwidth steering takes a little control away -- I know they theory is that with one SSID "you just don't have to worry about it, it just works," but that hasn't been my experience. Even beyond the iPads, I've had other devices get flipped over to the 2.4 band because the signal was stronger and the 5G band was starting to get weak at that distance. But in those cases I can clearly see throughput on 5G that's still as much as 433Mbps, versus half that or less on 2.4 -- so it's frustrating to know it's preferring a stronger but slower signal over a faster connection. With two SSID's, I can control which devices use which bands and optimize everything.

 

I guess this is a topic for a new thread, but next I need to figure out why devices associated to different satellites can't always ping each other. Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't. Shouldn't every assigned IP address be visible to every other one? (I know not every devices responds to a ping -- I'm talking about the ones that should, like my Raspberry Pi servers.)

Message 14 of 38
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

@MrMediaGuy wrote:

>> ... my two older-gen iPads went from getting about 50Mbps on Speedtest down to about 3Mbps ...

 

Just in case, verrify that these devices connected to the expected Satellites and not the main Orbi Router.  They could be connected to the main Router via 2.4GHz when your Satellites are being offlined/reboot.  It will take a while for them to be redirected to the nearest Satellites again.  Before you run SpeedTest, disable/re-enable WiFi on the target device so that it can connect to the Satellite.

Message 15 of 38
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

@MrMediaGuy 

 

Yeah, the best version isn't necessary the latest version.  The best firmware version is the version that works best for your setup.

 

BTW, if you get "Poor" backhaul, it's a sign of weaker signal post v210.  I discovered that post update from v210 as well.  My Satellite had "Good" backhaul in v210, then it's "Poor" after v210.  When I checked the main UI, one of my Satellites had switched its backhaul from 5GHz to 2.4GHz.  All my devices that connected to that Satellite either ran into trouble or suffered from slow WiFi speed.

 

My solution was to move that Satellite to a new location to get "Good" backhaul, which it did.  But then it threw me a curve ball via "Config_Sync" madness.  I was planning to stay in v210 as well before I figured out the single SSID solution to the "Config_Sync" madness.

 

If you can't ping all your devices, check if you have packet drops.

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 16 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Yeah, it's very frustrating -- no packet loss, just hard to ping between devices that are connected to different Orbis (whether router or satellite). I can ping anything on the same Orbi with no problem, and often can ping devices between Orbis. But just as often I can't, and there's not really a pattern as to which devices.

 

For example, I have a Raspberry Pi server in my home office that always connects to the satellite in that room. If my PC or phone is connected to a different Orbi in another part of the house, it's about 80-20 odds that I can ping it. No dropped packets, it's just as if it doesn't exist on the network. But it's connected to the Internet via the satellite back to the router and works great on its own; it's just invisible to a large part of my network. On the other hand, sometimes after a reboot of the Orbi system, it's "visible" everywhere. Makes no sense.

Message 17 of 38
Deguara1
Aspirant

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Hi,

 

I've just had the exact same problem as you were having, but I think I've found the solution.

 

If you have a read of this, https://kb.netgear.com/000060756/RBR50-RBS50-Firmware-Version-2-3-1-44 it states that if you CANNOT update the firmware straight from V2.2.1.210 to V2.3.1.44, you must first update to V2.2.1.212 using the manual update option.

 

I have done this and all seems to be fine again so far, but it's early days and I've only had it installed for approx 20 mins.

 

I hope this helps you as it seems to have worked for me.

 

Kind regards,

 

Kevin.

Message 18 of 38
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Are the SSIDs sepearated? 

 

I haven't seen this with the RBK50 system I have. SSIDs are not separated. I did see config sync during the initial setup. Then it's gone.

What is the Mfr and model# of the ethernet switch if one is in the configuration.


@MrMediaGuy wrote:

Yeah, it's very frustrating -- no packet loss, just hard to ping between devices that are connected to different Orbis (whether router or satellite). I can ping anything on the same Orbi with no problem, and often can ping devices between Orbis. But just as often I can't, and there's not really a pattern as to which devices.

 

For example, I have a Raspberry Pi server in my home office that always connects to the satellite in that room. If my PC or phone is connected to a different Orbi in another part of the house, it's about 80-20 odds that I can ping it. No dropped packets, it's just as if it doesn't exist on the network. But it's connected to the Internet via the satellite back to the router and works great on its own; it's just invisible to a large part of my network. On the other hand, sometimes after a reboot of the Orbi system, it's "visible" everywhere. Makes no sense.


 

Message 19 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

So it's not often that I say "Boy was I wrong," but here it is . . .

 

I listed on the reasons on this thread that I couldn't go back to a single SSID (too many devices already configured with separate 2.4G or 5G SSIDs, difficulty reconfiguring "2.4G only" devices with a single SSID, etc.) -- but here's what finally put me over the edge and made me bite the bullet and do it. I spend most of the workday on conference calls (video and/or audio) over WebEx, and ever since switching to the Orbi about 6 weeks ago I have had constant issues with audio dropouts, robotic "Max Headroom" audio effects, etc., that never happened before Orbi.  It didn't make much sense to me because all my speedtests were fine but the WebEx software was always reporting "poor network quality."

 

Finally I stumbled on this: http://www.dslreports.com/tools/puma6 

 

This a tool originally designed to spot problems in Intel Puma6 chipsets in routers (not relevant here), but it's also a good way of testing jitter and latency of a connection. Well guess what? Instead of a nice green box, I got *mostly* red with my setup. Yes, my downstream was 238Mbps, but the variance in round-trip packet times was off the charts. Literally HALF or more of my times were > 500ms, while others were in the 50ms or below range. In other words, WAY too much variation for things like stable audio or video conferencing. (And yes, I tested direclty to my cable modem as well, bypassing the Orbi, and got great times and all green, so I knew it wasn't my modem or connection.)

 

So I thought, okay, I wonder if this separating the SSIDs is causing this jitter problem -- so I decided merely as a test to go back to a single SSID, not changing any other settings.  Well, wow. Suddenly everything was perfect -- all green on the test, perfect audio/video calls, no more Config Sync looping on the status page, correct firmware versions reporting from all the satellites. Basically eveyrthing I said was "broken" about the Orbi was magically fixed by switching to a single SSID. Oh, and that problem where I coudln't ping between devices a lot of the time? Turned out it wasn't that I couldn't ping between satellites -- is was that I coudln't ping from one BAND to another. Single SSID solved that, too.

 

Like a lot of people here, I moaned and whined that it was ridiculous and impossible to live with one SSID and bandwidth steering and it was ridiculous to force people to do that. Well, hand me my serving of crow and humble pie for dessert. Advice to anyone wanting to switch to a different 5G SSID: DO NOT DO IT.

 

And to anyone who has and has had no problems, I'd encourage you to run that Puma6 jitter test linked above. Maybe your setup isn't as great as you think it is.

Message 20 of 38
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

Thanks for the update!

 

It's great that you've also provided a different data point and tool for how to troubleshoot splitting SSID problem.

 

When I first ran into this problem, I almost retired my Orbi setup out of frustration.  But I have a backup wireless network, which I switched on while I'm troublshooting the problem.  I managed to stumble on the solution by going back to basic, default configs, and root cause the non-default configs in my setup.  That's how I discovered the problem and came up with single SSID solution.

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/New-Orbi-RBR50-RBS50-Firmware-Version-2-3-1-44/m-p/1725377#M57...

 

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Message 21 of 38
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

@MrMediaGuy wrote:

>> And to anyone who has and has had no problems, I'd encourage you to run that Puma6 jitter test linked above....

 

I took your advice and try it out.  Not sure what to make of this result as I do see some reds.

 

Maybe, it's okay?

 

 

puma6.jpg

Message 22 of 38
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

That puma6 test is only for ISP modems and or modem/router combos.

The big issue is with cable modems with Intel chip sets. 

You can test Broadcom based modems as well. 

Historical information regarding the Intel chipset flaw that was found is here:

http://www.badmodems.com


@MrMediaGuy wrote:

So it's not often that I say "Boy was I wrong," but here it is . . .

 

I listed on the reasons on this thread that I couldn't go back to a single SSID (too many devices already configured with separate 2.4G or 5G SSIDs, difficulty reconfiguring "2.4G only" devices with a single SSID, etc.) -- but here's what finally put me over the edge and made me bite the bullet and do it. I spend most of the workday on conference calls (video and/or audio) over WebEx, and ever since switching to the Orbi about 6 weeks ago I have had constant issues with audio dropouts, robotic "Max Headroom" audio effects, etc., that never happened before Orbi.  It didn't make much sense to me because all my speedtests were fine but the WebEx software was always reporting "poor network quality."

 

Finally I stumbled on this: http://www.dslreports.com/tools/puma6 

 

This a tool originally designed to spot problems in Intel Puma6 chipsets in routers (not relevant here), but it's also a good way of testing jitter and latency of a connection. Well guess what? Instead of a nice green box, I got *mostly* red with my setup. Yes, my downstream was 238Mbps, but the variance in round-trip packet times was off the charts. Literally HALF or more of my times were > 500ms, while others were in the 50ms or below range. In other words, WAY too much variation for things like stable audio or video conferencing. (And yes, I tested direclty to my cable modem as well, bypassing the Orbi, and got great times and all green, so I knew it wasn't my modem or connection.)

 

So I thought, okay, I wonder if this separating the SSIDs is causing this jitter problem -- so I decided merely as a test to go back to a single SSID, not changing any other settings.  Well, wow. Suddenly everything was perfect -- all green on the test, perfect audio/video calls, no more Config Sync looping on the status page, correct firmware versions reporting from all the satellites. Basically eveyrthing I said was "broken" about the Orbi was magically fixed by switching to a single SSID. Oh, and that problem where I coudln't ping between devices a lot of the time? Turned out it wasn't that I couldn't ping between satellites -- is was that I coudln't ping from one BAND to another. Single SSID solved that, too.

 

Like a lot of people here, I moaned and whined that it was ridiculous and impossible to live with one SSID and bandwidth steering and it was ridiculous to force people to do that. Well, hand me my serving of crow and humble pie for dessert. Advice to anyone wanting to switch to a different 5G SSID: DO NOT DO IT.

 

And to anyone who has and has had no problems, I'd encourage you to run that Puma6 jitter test linked above. Maybe your setup isn't as great as you think it is.


 

 

 

Message 23 of 38
MrMediaGuy
Guide

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

You're correct that it's not *for* the Orbi -- but it's as valid as any other means of showing you that you have packets arriving to the client device way out of sequence. In my case, my video and audio conferencing was almost unusable, because half of my traffic was arriving a half a second or a second too late over the LAN. In my case there was about a 750ms delay on 50% of my traffic when connected to a satellite, and about 250 to 500 milliseconds when connected to the main Orbi router. (Direct to modem, on the WAN, everything was fine.)

So in my case having separate SSIDs was introducing an unacceptable amount of lag and jitter in most of my traffic. Switched to a single SSID, and everything was perfect.

The fact that the tool is designed for something else is kind of irrelevant; it still shows you what you need to see on your LAN. There are a lots of better tools for this, of course, but this one is easy because it's on the web and you don't have to install anything.
Message 24 of 38
TuckRanger
Aspirant

Re: "Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44

So MrMediaGuy are you sying that all your issues that made you go for separate SSIDs are also fixed, i.e. the older IPADs and the Apple devices flipping to 2.4Ghz ?

 

Thanks.

Message 25 of 38
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