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Forum Discussion
"Config sync" loop with firmware V2.3.1.44
RBR50 and my two satellites (RBS50 + RBW30) were very stable out of the box for a couple of months now after getting the initial configuration right. However after updating (involuntarily!) to the "a...
So it's not often that I say "Boy was I wrong," but here it is . . .
I listed on the reasons on this thread that I couldn't go back to a single SSID (too many devices already configured with separate 2.4G or 5G SSIDs, difficulty reconfiguring "2.4G only" devices with a single SSID, etc.) -- but here's what finally put me over the edge and made me bite the bullet and do it. I spend most of the workday on conference calls (video and/or audio) over WebEx, and ever since switching to the Orbi about 6 weeks ago I have had constant issues with audio dropouts, robotic "Max Headroom" audio effects, etc., that never happened before Orbi. It didn't make much sense to me because all my speedtests were fine but the WebEx software was always reporting "poor network quality."
Finally I stumbled on this: http://www.dslreports.com/tools/puma6
This a tool originally designed to spot problems in Intel Puma6 chipsets in routers (not relevant here), but it's also a good way of testing jitter and latency of a connection. Well guess what? Instead of a nice green box, I got *mostly* red with my setup. Yes, my downstream was 238Mbps, but the variance in round-trip packet times was off the charts. Literally HALF or more of my times were > 500ms, while others were in the 50ms or below range. In other words, WAY too much variation for things like stable audio or video conferencing. (And yes, I tested direclty to my cable modem as well, bypassing the Orbi, and got great times and all green, so I knew it wasn't my modem or connection.)
So I thought, okay, I wonder if this separating the SSIDs is causing this jitter problem -- so I decided merely as a test to go back to a single SSID, not changing any other settings. Well, wow. Suddenly everything was perfect -- all green on the test, perfect audio/video calls, no more Config Sync looping on the status page, correct firmware versions reporting from all the satellites. Basically eveyrthing I said was "broken" about the Orbi was magically fixed by switching to a single SSID. Oh, and that problem where I coudln't ping between devices a lot of the time? Turned out it wasn't that I couldn't ping between satellites -- is was that I coudln't ping from one BAND to another. Single SSID solved that, too.
Like a lot of people here, I moaned and whined that it was ridiculous and impossible to live with one SSID and bandwidth steering and it was ridiculous to force people to do that. Well, hand me my serving of crow and humble pie for dessert. Advice to anyone wanting to switch to a different 5G SSID: DO NOT DO IT.
And to anyone who has and has had no problems, I'd encourage you to run that Puma6 jitter test linked above. Maybe your setup isn't as great as you think it is.
Thanks for the update!
It's great that you've also provided a different data point and tool for how to troubleshoot splitting SSID problem.
When I first ran into this problem, I almost retired my Orbi setup out of frustration. But I have a backup wireless network, which I switched on while I'm troublshooting the problem. I managed to stumble on the solution by going back to basic, default configs, and root cause the non-default configs in my setup. That's how I discovered the problem and came up with single SSID solution.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
MrMediaGuy wrote:
>> And to anyone who has and has had no problems, I'd encourage you to run that Puma6 jitter test linked above....
I took your advice and try it out. Not sure what to make of this result as I do see some reds.
Maybe, it's okay?
That puma6 test is only for ISP modems and or modem/router combos.
The big issue is with cable modems with Intel chip sets.
You can test Broadcom based modems as well.
Historical information regarding the Intel chipset flaw that was found is here:
MrMediaGuy wrote:
So it's not often that I say "Boy was I wrong," but here it is . . .
I listed on the reasons on this thread that I couldn't go back to a single SSID (too many devices already configured with separate 2.4G or 5G SSIDs, difficulty reconfiguring "2.4G only" devices with a single SSID, etc.) -- but here's what finally put me over the edge and made me bite the bullet and do it. I spend most of the workday on conference calls (video and/or audio) over WebEx, and ever since switching to the Orbi about 6 weeks ago I have had constant issues with audio dropouts, robotic "Max Headroom" audio effects, etc., that never happened before Orbi. It didn't make much sense to me because all my speedtests were fine but the WebEx software was always reporting "poor network quality."
Finally I stumbled on this: http://www.dslreports.com/tools/puma6
This a tool originally designed to spot problems in Intel Puma6 chipsets in routers (not relevant here), but it's also a good way of testing jitter and latency of a connection. Well guess what? Instead of a nice green box, I got *mostly* red with my setup. Yes, my downstream was 238Mbps, but the variance in round-trip packet times was off the charts. Literally HALF or more of my times were > 500ms, while others were in the 50ms or below range. In other words, WAY too much variation for things like stable audio or video conferencing. (And yes, I tested direclty to my cable modem as well, bypassing the Orbi, and got great times and all green, so I knew it wasn't my modem or connection.)
So I thought, okay, I wonder if this separating the SSIDs is causing this jitter problem -- so I decided merely as a test to go back to a single SSID, not changing any other settings. Well, wow. Suddenly everything was perfect -- all green on the test, perfect audio/video calls, no more Config Sync looping on the status page, correct firmware versions reporting from all the satellites. Basically eveyrthing I said was "broken" about the Orbi was magically fixed by switching to a single SSID. Oh, and that problem where I coudln't ping between devices a lot of the time? Turned out it wasn't that I couldn't ping between satellites -- is was that I coudln't ping from one BAND to another. Single SSID solved that, too.
Like a lot of people here, I moaned and whined that it was ridiculous and impossible to live with one SSID and bandwidth steering and it was ridiculous to force people to do that. Well, hand me my serving of crow and humble pie for dessert. Advice to anyone wanting to switch to a different 5G SSID: DO NOT DO IT.
And to anyone who has and has had no problems, I'd encourage you to run that Puma6 jitter test linked above. Maybe your setup isn't as great as you think it is.
- You're correct that it's not *for* the Orbi -- but it's as valid as any other means of showing you that you have packets arriving to the client device way out of sequence. In my case, my video and audio conferencing was almost unusable, because half of my traffic was arriving a half a second or a second too late over the LAN. In my case there was about a 750ms delay on 50% of my traffic when connected to a satellite, and about 250 to 500 milliseconds when connected to the main Orbi router. (Direct to modem, on the WAN, everything was fine.)
So in my case having separate SSIDs was introducing an unacceptable amount of lag and jitter in most of my traffic. Switched to a single SSID, and everything was perfect.
The fact that the tool is designed for something else is kind of irrelevant; it still shows you what you need to see on your LAN. There are a lots of better tools for this, of course, but this one is easy because it's on the web and you don't have to install anything.So MrMediaGuy are you sying that all your issues that made you go for separate SSIDs are also fixed, i.e. the older IPADs and the Apple devices flipping to 2.4Ghz ?
Thanks.
I had split my SSID's a few months ago, because I thought my D-Link DCS-2630L cameras, which support both 2.4GHz and 5GHz, were having issues losing connections and I thought it might have been caused by the shared SSID's. Based on the results of running that test on my system, and your experience, I decided to try going back to a single SSID last night. It seems my connections to my Apple TV's are more solid now - the speeds are far more consistent, and I don't see as many issues so far.
My cameras still seem to have issues, although I'm willing to try working that out without going back to split SSID's at least for a while. It's only been a day so far, we'll see if one of the most important key metrics, WSF, improves. WSF has been quite low the last couple of months, and I'm getting all the blame. For those that don't know, WSF=Wife Satisfaction Factor...
Glad it's working. I've not had any issues using single SSID and NGs intented design for single SSID on Orbi. Been working well.
Enjoy now. :smileywink:
DougB628 wrote:
I had split my SSID's a few months ago, because I thought my D-Link DCS-2630L cameras, which support both 2.4GHz and 5GHz, were having issues losing connections and I thought it might have been caused by the shared SSID's. Based on the results of running that test on my system, and your experience, I decided to try going back to a single SSID last night. It seems my connections to my Apple TV's are more solid now - the speeds are far more consistent, and I don't see as many issues so far.
My cameras still seem to have issues, although I'm willing to try working that out without going back to split SSID's at least for a while. It's only been a day so far, we'll see if one of the most important key metrics, WSF, improves. WSF has been quite low the last couple of months, and I'm getting all the blame. For those that don't know, WSF=Wife Satisfaction Factor...
With Thanks to MrMediaGuy and FURRYe38 , I took your advice and went back to a single SSID, everything a lot more stable now and the original problem which lead me down the separate SSID route is also resolved , i.e. my Apple products are reliably connecting with 5Ghz due to a few tweaks I found on another thread (https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR50-iOS-disconnection-issue/m-p/1708479#M52790)
OK, so I've been running for several days now back on a single SSID. Apple TV connectivity seems improved. Cameras still have lots of issues. But most concerning is that the puma 6 test still shows bad results - see attached file with captured image of web page. This weekend I may try connecting direct to my modem with my laptop, cutting out the Orbi completely to see what the puma 6 test says.
Yes I'd definitely run the Puma6 test connected directly to your modem over Ethernet and eliminate poor WAN performance before you worry about anything else. If your WAN connection sucks, that's a different conversation.
Regarding your cameras, I looked up the manual for your camera model and unfortunately I don't see a way to "force" it to prefer 2.4Ghz (g/b/n) over 5Ghz (Wireless AC). A few questions:
- I don't think you ever mentioned, but how did the cameras work when you had split SSIDs? Did you have them forced to the 5G band or the 2.4G band? Were they stable then?
- When you look in the Orbi app or the Orbi's browser interface, do the cameras show up as always connected to 5G, 2.4G, or sometimes one and sometimes the other depending on when you look?
- In the Orbi browser interface, on the Advanced tab, Advanced Wireless page, what are your settings for Implicit Beamforming, MU-MIMO, and Fast Roaming? When I had split SSIDs, I played with every combination of these looking for the magic answer, but since going back to one SSID it has seemed to work best to just turn them all on. If you have them all on, you might play with turning off any one of them at a time to see if it makes a difference. Depending on your issue, frankly any of them might help. Some devices don't like Fast Roaming if they're right on the cusp of the 5G band; others don't play well with MU-MIMO, and some don't like Implicit Beamforming. All worth a shot, IMHO.
- Have you scanned your environs with a WiFi scanning tool to identify the least crowded channels to use? You might benefit from simply trying different channels for 2.4G and 5G, as your dropouts could be the result of being close to a pesky neighbor with a router that's a little too close to your house.
- What's your WiFi transmit power set to? I would try reducing 2.4G and 5G (alternately, not at the same time) to 75%, first one and then the other, to see if it makes a difference. I have a Ring doorbell that wouldn't stop trying to grab 5G even though it was *just* a little too weak to be using that band at its distance. Turning down my 5G forced the Ring to grab 2.4G (which it should have preferred anyway as it will usually be the stronger signal) and it works great. Just be aware that reducing 5G might make your 5G bands too weak in other parts of the house, since they already have a shorter range and than 2.4G. (Additionally, 100% power can sometimes cause contention if your satellites are a little too close to the Orbi base router or to each other.)
Let us know if any of that makes a difference in your WSF!
Run the pingplotter test app. It's more accurate for doing pings and checking latency. Puma test is for only checking cable modems.
DougB628 wrote:
OK, so I've been running for several days now back on a single SSID. Apple TV connectivity seems improved. Cameras still have lots of issues. But most concerning is that the puma 6 test still shows bad results - see attached file with captured image of web page. This weekend I may try connecting direct to my modem with my laptop, cutting out the Orbi completely to see what the puma 6 test says.
