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Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

barrettusa
Tutor

Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Just updated my home network by adding a NETGEAR MS108EUP and GS110EMX so I can have 2 VLAN's connecting my basement and upper floor with both my internet network and the Google fiber network. I think after a lot of reading/learning that I have the VLAN's working, I have the internal network/admin as the default VLAN 1 and the connection to the Google fiber router on VLAN 2 and on each switch depending on the port the host device is

connected to one of the two networks.

 

As part of my testing on two PC's which are connected one to each VLAN I did a speed test to make sure I was getting the throughput expected. VLAN1 is 1000Mbps and VLAN2 is 2500Mbps on Google Fiber 2000.

 

I have not made any other changes to the default switch settings.

 

When I do the speed test to Google, I see the throughput on download hit around 700Mbps on the PC on VLAN 1 and 1700Mbps on VLAN2 but after a couple of seconds the test fails with a socket error.

 

I didn't have this issue when using the NETGEAR GS110MX unmanaged switches that this new solution replaced.

 

Anyone know if there is something in the switch(es) configuration that would cause this issue? 

 

Thank you for any help!

Message 1 of 21

Accepted Solutions
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Quick update.

 

First, thank you for those that offered guidance and help!

 

After trying to get this working a couple more times I ended up calling Netgear support who also couldn't find anything wrong with my setup or configuration. We concluded the switch was not working correctly and so I ordered a new one and now everything is working as it should, so the MS108EUP was the issue. 

 

I ended up getting a second GS110EMX rather than replacing the MS108EUP with the same switch as I found several other reviews that seemed to have similar issues with that switch, and I don't need the POE feature.

 

Thanks again!

Mark.

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Message 21 of 21

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schumaku
Guru

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Two switches. Wild guess one in the basement, one in the upper floor.

 

More wild guessing, one physical network connection between the two switches.  Probably 2.5GbE because that's the max the MS108EUP can do.

 

More wild guessing, two VLANs configured, VLAN 1 and VLAN 2. Configured how to the different networks resp. routers resp. PCs. 

 

What makes up VLAN 1 to be the default? Probably using the link with untagged frames (thus default?) for the normal Internet LAN (Gigabit), and some tagged trunk for VLAN 2 for the Google Fiber network LAN?

 

Definitively confused about the point where you state "and on each switch depending on the port the host device is connected to one of the two networks." 

 

Starting from this:

 


@barrettusa wrote:

As part of my testing on two PC's which are connected one to each VLAN I did a speed test to make sure I was getting the throughput expected. VLAN1 is 1000Mbps and VLAN2 is 2500Mbps on Google Fiber 2000.


What has changed to this?

 


@barrettusa wrote:

When I do the speed test to Google, I see the throughput on download hit around 700Mbps on the PC on VLAN 1 and 1700Mbps on VLAN2 but after a couple of seconds the test fails with a socket error.


Please put up a list of what you think you have connected and configured.

 

And why/how should the previous unmanaged GS110MX made this configuration work - considering there are at least two networks, two LAN, two LAN IP subnets , ....?

 

VLANs don't make connections - Ethernet links (or for the sake fiber links) do. On an Ethernet link, you can operate multiple VLANs which carry traffic or frames, and ensure this traffic is kept independent from the other networks.

 

By rule of thumb, what I would suggest:

 

- One physical Ethernet link between the two switches, or in a second stage two Ethernet links in static LAG - the later makes the VLAN trunk config more complex to understand

 

- The ports connecting to this trunk, configured as [T]agged for each VLAN 1 and 2 ... that makes the trunk carrying both VLANs in tagged frames, for example port #8

 

- Define multiple access ports on both switches for each of the VLANs 1 and 2, for example

 

Port 1...3 VLAN 1 [U]ntagged, PVID 1

...

Port 4...6 VLAN 2 [U]ntagged, PVID 2

...

 

These ports 1..3 on both switches make up network connections (like a cable) for VLAN 1, resp. ports 4..6 on both switches make up network connections (like a cable) for VLAN 2. Like direct connections to each router LAN for example (including each router).

 

 

Message 2 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Thank you for the time to help me. I not sure what you mean on some of that, so I did a before and after diagram and the VLAN config screens. The network is how it is due to building physical limitations. I wanted to use VLANs so I could have both the 192.168.3.x (internal network) and 192.168.2.x (Google fiber router) on the same physical wire between floors 1 and 2 so I could have wired network on floor 3. Everything except one PC is on the internal network 1Gbit and that one PC is on the Google Fiber network on 2.5Gbit.

 

It seems everything is working, sort of, as the devices are getting the right DHCP addresses, but I am getting odd behavior such as downloads failing, occasional buffeting on streaming, and can't do any speed tests without it failing after a couple of seconds.

MS108EUP                                                            GS110EMX

Port 1 Google 2.5Gb (VLAN2)                               Port 1 Synology Router WAN (VLAN2)

Port 2 Trunk to GS110EMX (VLAN1 and 2)          Port 5 to GS116NA (VLAN1)  

Port 4 To GS305E (VLAN1)                                   Port 6 to GS308 (VLAN1)

Port 6 To 2nd floor Synology extender (VLAN1)   Port 7 to Synology Router LAN (VLAN1)

                                                                              Port 9 to GS110MX (VLAN2)

                                                                              Port 10 Truck to MS108EUP (VLAN 1 and 2)

 

I hope that helps explain my situation and once again thank you for any help and guidance.

Message 3 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Forgot the config screens

 

GS110EMX 1.pngGS110EMX 2.png

GS110EMX 4.pngGS110EMX 3.pngMS108EUP.png

Message 4 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Last thing I looked at tonight was a packet capture when trying to download a large file (small files seem to work), I'm not 100% sure I know what I am looking at but these warning may help identify my problem?

shark.png

Message 5 of 21
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

@barrettusa 

 

I think that by connecting the WiFi extenders to the switches you created loops that kill your network.

Message 6 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

I removed the wifi extenders as I was also having issues with the guest network that they serve. However, I don't think that was the issue as you can connect the WAN of those to the LAN of the main router as the wired backhaul option. I did some more testing today and the single PC on the Google (192.168.2.x) network was working normal, as far as speed tests and large downloads. 

 

The issue with the internal (192.168.3.x) remains. It is odd as stuff is working but I get disconnects, dropouts, etc. When I did a speed test the first time it did complete with the expected speed, but then a second attempt only got to a 10th of the expected speed and then failed to complete.

 

I must have something wrong with the config on those two new switches 😞 

Message 7 of 21
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

@barrettusa 

 

I’m not familiar with Synology routers, but I find it difficult to believe that, if you configure a WiFi router as an extender, its routing functions are still active. Most likely that port marked as WAN works just like another LAN port.

 

You may have some other configuration issues there, too. I don’t know. All I can say is that, in my opinion, your network would benefit from a good routing switch that comes with a DHCP server. Then, you could turn the current WiFi routers into access points or even better replace them with VLAN-aware APs.

Message 8 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Thought about those wifi extenders some more - may be I need to have those backhaul links on their own VLAN to the back of the main router so I will do that as well, but will wait until I get the first 2 VLANs working. Right now they are back to wireless backhaul mode. Thanks again!!

Message 9 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

After rolling back due to the issues I figured I would start again planning this solution! Here is a simple view of what I am trying to do with these two new switches. Basically, I have one cable between 2 floors and want to use that as a truck to carry traffic for both VLANs - is this possible and if so, what did I do wrong with the configuration?

 

Simple View.png

Message 10 of 21
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

@barrettusa 

 

Yeah, that should work as long as you do not need access from VLAN2 to VLAN1. Also, it usually means double NATting while accessing Internet from VLAN1, but your Synology router may be different.

Message 11 of 21
schumaku
Guru

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Config makes perfect sense, great job! 

 

Probably not related is the PVID config on the MS108EUP, so just for completeness please.

 

 

Message 12 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Correct, only the Synology Router allows traffic from VLAN1 to VLAN2. Thanks!!

Message 13 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

You are making me feel much better 😁

So, I couldn't find the PVID and realized that I was in basic not advanced, so I switched to advanced and recreated the VLANs

Does this look correct for the GS110EMX?

 

I think I am starting to understand this VLAN stuff much better now, thanks again for your assistance!

 

updated MS110EMX 2.pngupdated MS110EMX.png

Message 14 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

@schumaku 

Bad news - after checking the configuration, I put the new switches back in the network per the diagram above and tested as I went. After connecting the Google router, I was able to connect to it on port 8 but not on 3 to 7 as planned, like wise connecting to port 3 allowed me to access the switch on VLAN 1 (192.168.3.x) so all looks good. I then connected the trunk cable to port 2 and on port 10 of the other switch, and the PC on port 9 was able to access the internet on VLAN 2 as planned and completed all speed testing - can't see any issues. Then I connected port 1 VLAN 2 to the Synology router WAN, the WiFi started working and connecting port 2 VLAN 1 to the LAN port on the Synology router restored connectivity to the other wired devices. However, when I did the speed test I get the same issue as in the beginning, the connection to the Synology router is good and I get internet access, but any heavy traffic and I get failures such as the socket error on the failed speed test and I see ping time outs at the same time the test fails. Please, do you have any ideas?

starts good.jpgfail.jpg

 

Message 15 of 21
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

@barrettusa 

 

"Then I connected port 1 VLAN 2 to the Synology router WAN, the WiFi started working and connecting port 2 VLAN 1 to the LAN port on the Synology router restored connectivity to the other wired devices."

 

That's a big change between two tests. Brake it into smaller steps and test in between. Add the other devices gradually. Also, eliminate the WiFi initially.  

Message 16 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Yep, no testing on wifi - I just know that came up as all the camera and assistant devices stopped complaining 🙂

 

I did add the switched back bit by bit and tested along the way, and everything looked like it working, and as far as being able to see and "speak" to the VLANs it was working, but as soon as I put any heavy load on the network or may be just intermittent, I get the drop-outs and see it as buffeting in streaming, disconnect/reconnect in online meetings, and failed speed tests. I also noticed on the VLAN 1 (Google) network where I have the Synology router and 1 PC connected, the PC has a much higher speed test on the old switch (no VLAN) vs. the new switch with VLANs. 2200Mbit old switch and 1780Mbits new switch.

 

Do VLAN's slow traffic with some sort of tagging overhead?

Message 17 of 21
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

@barrettusa 

 

By eliminate WiFi, I meant you turn off WiFi completely, especially on the Synology router and use only wired connections for testing. Have you done it? Does that issue occur when you just add the router and nothing else to the network? I don't really understand from your writing at what point the issue occurs for the first time.  

 

No, VLAN tagging does not add any significant overhead. However, routing especially when NATting is involved may slow down the traffic a lot. Some of my older routers are even 70% slower doing LAN-WAN comparing to LAN-LAN. I use iperf3 in my speed tests. I think it would be a good idea to run a speed/load test on the Synology router alone.   

 

Message 18 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

I'm beginning to think this isn't going to work, but I wish I understood why. I am trying again as you say without the wifi on and will test fully first with just VLAN1 and then add VLAN2, I think I will also do some testing with no VLANs to see how the switches are working compared to the current unmanaged ones.

Message 19 of 21
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

@barrettusa 

 

That configuration, although theoretically correct, will likely experience performance problems if there is heavy traffic flowing through the MS108EUP switch between VLANs. That makes both switches handle the same traffic twice and push the same traffic twice through the trunk link. Connecting the Synology router to MS108EUP instead of GS110EMS may improve the performance.

 

As for the WiFi extender suspicion, it may be just miscommunication due to different understanding of the term. To me, an WiFi extender is something like a WiFi repeater or bridge. However, if your WiFi extender is what I call a WiFi mesh node, it should be perfectly okay to connect it to a switch to take advantage of an Ethernet backhaul. I actually did that myself when I had an ASUS mesh system.

Message 20 of 21
barrettusa
Tutor

Re: Newbi help needed with VLAN performance MS108EUP and GS110EMX

Quick update.

 

First, thank you for those that offered guidance and help!

 

After trying to get this working a couple more times I ended up calling Netgear support who also couldn't find anything wrong with my setup or configuration. We concluded the switch was not working correctly and so I ordered a new one and now everything is working as it should, so the MS108EUP was the issue. 

 

I ended up getting a second GS110EMX rather than replacing the MS108EUP with the same switch as I found several other reviews that seemed to have similar issues with that switch, and I don't need the POE feature.

 

Thanks again!

Mark.

Message 21 of 21
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