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Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

whoit
Tutor

Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Support? For a fee? When issues aren't resolved?
Yes, Netgear's support is garbage and I'll never buy another of their products.

What's the story?
I bought 2-XAV5001s and 1-XAV5004 in Oct 2011.
The 5001s work fine.
The 5004 rarely comes out of sleep mode. I usually have to unplug/replug it to get it to connect.

I discovered this within the first 30 days of ownership and had a replacement unit sent from the reseller. Nothing changed - still the same. I opened a case with Netgear and it was never resolved.
The firmware is the same version as when I bought it.
The forum has several other people complaining about the same thing.

I still have the problem and now that I have a little time to address it again, guess what? The case was closed, and they want me to pay for support. The support tech wouldn't stop talking about the one-year contract and how it covers all my devices. I don't want that junk - I can manage my own devices myself. I really don't want their support for my pc or my ipod - how stupid is that?

What I want is for them to stand behind their devices, stand behind their software, and quit ripping off their customers with crappy support for 90 days.
Message 1 of 32
RobbieOax
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Do you still have the issue?
Message 2 of 32
whoit
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

It seems as though the most recent update for the XAV5001 (0.2.1.1NA)
has resolved my issue.

It's a bit early to tell since it's a sporadic problem, but for the last week or so,
I have not had to restart the XAV5004

Still can't stand their policies or support though...
Message 3 of 32
clithes
Prodigy

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Is not developing newer firmware to overcome problems support, and at no extra charge? As you say you now have a fully working unit. In my experience of using netgear products, their support along with this forum had been A1.
Message 4 of 32
ggift_1029
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Just to add to that. All devices regardless of the brands has warranty policy, so it's really normal. Other companies even have 1 month free tech support over the phone only. And when you call the tech support team, you should be informed that after seven days, the case will be automatically closed if there are no updates.
Message 5 of 32
whoit
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

FYI - The problem is NOT resolved. It's intermittent, so not easy to track, but I have had to power down/up several times since my last post.

It would really be nice if they would fix this....it's been a long time.
Message 6 of 32
whoit
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

(FYI they didn't post my previous reply to this) No, firmware updates are part of the cost of doing business. As is a useful period of support. The fact that a lot of companies try to squeeze their customers by reducing their support period is no excuse. I ran my own software business (Fortune 100 clients) for 10 years and I can tell you that support is the primary distinguishing factor between companies. There are a lot of manufacturers out there and products that do the same thing. I could swap out Netgear in a heartbeat for Belkin, DLink, Linksys/Cisco, or a few others without any noticeable difference in performance - in fact, I may have to since Netgear isn't working.
Message 7 of 32
ggift_1029
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

I agree. But I think, the 90 days is just the phone support. They still support their devices, I believe, only by email. You would need to visit their web portal my.netgear.com. You can send an email there for free and they have some technicians waiting to reply to your email. The reply would be within 24 hours, I think.
Message 8 of 32
clithes
Prodigy

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Well if it's still not fit for purpose get a refund from the reseller and buy a different brand
Message 9 of 32
fordem
Mentor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

We're talking about powerline networking - which piggybacks data across a network of cables designed to distribute electrcial power - an inherently noisy and "data hostile" environment, and one that is "unique" to each user.

You literally have no guarantee that you can transmit data across such a network - it might work fine today, and tomorrow your next door neighbor installs a "new" dishwasher he bought on Craig's list and it could stop.

Doesn't matter what brand either - the technology is the root of the problem.
Message 10 of 32
CheesyM
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

fordem wrote:
Doesn't matter what brand either - the technology is the root of the problem.


The issue here is a particular problem with a specific Netgear model (XAV5004) that has been experienced by a number of users, but it's difficult to get help from Netgear (I've currently got an open support ticket for this - no solution so far).

I'd prefer not to have to return this (the network speed & reliability are otherwise excellent), but I will if Netgear can't provide a solution.
Message 11 of 32
fordem
Mentor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

CheesyM wrote:
The issue here is a particular problem with a specific Netgear model (XAV5004) that has been experienced by a number of users, but it's difficult to get help from Netgear (I've currently got an open support ticket for this - no solution so far).

I'd prefer not to have to return this (the network speed & reliability are otherwise excellent), but I will if Netgear can't provide a solution.


You seem to have missed the point - the technology behind powerline networking is such that it does NOT work in all scenarios, especially scenarios where there may be high levels of EMI/RFI - Netgear cannot provide a solution in such a scenario.

I don't know if you looked at the Netgear webpages concerning powerline troubleshooting and noticed that they do not recommend powerline for business environments - the reason there is that business environments have higher levels of EMI/RFI - I'm not saying that you're in a business environment, simply pointing out, that the technology has known limitations.
Message 12 of 32
CheesyM
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

fordem wrote:
You seem to have missed the point - the technology behind powerline networking is such that it does NOT work in all scenarios, especially scenarios where there may be high levels of EMI/RFI - Netgear cannot provide a solution in such a scenario.


I understand that, but the issue the OP and other people are having is with a particular piece of kit not "waking up". It's not about reliability or speed of connection, which I agree Netgear often can't be held responsible for. I live in a new house and get a very reliable, fast connection when it works (I can stream HD for long periods without any problems). However, the XAV5004 does not wake up properly once it's gone into power saving mode. And as soon as I power cycle it, it works great again.

Netgear should offer support to customers and produce fixes for issues like this with their products.
Message 13 of 32
Pagefault
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Hi,

I'm owning 1 set with 2x XAV5001 and 2 set's with 1xXAV5001 & 1xXAV5004.

With the new firmware v0.2.1.1CE the situation seems to be better. With the first set (2xXAV5001) i got only one "disconect" after one month. I solved the issue, instead of unplugging by renaming the device (with the netgear tool).

With the second and the third set, I still got a weekly standby-disconnect. Maybe because the XAV5004 has still the old firmware. I really hope for a new firmware soon. I don't think this problem is a major issue.
Message 14 of 32
whoit
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

UPDATE: I've managed, through many calls to Tech Support, to get them to swap out my XAV 5004 for another - the new one (actually, refurbished) is no different - it never comes out of sleep mode. This makes a total of 3 - 5004s that I've tried, all with the same problem.

I have the most current firmware as of this writing.
This is not a 'powerline technology' issue.

NetGear simply needs to monitor the posts and complaints of customers and do something about it.
I'm not asking for new functionality, or modified functionality - I'm asking that the existing functionality works as advertised.

Hell, the 5004 won't even wake when I run the Powerline Utility ! So when it's sleeping, the utility doesn't even see it on my network. Bad, Bad, Bad.
Message 15 of 32
Pagefault
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

@whoit
Try to rename the device with the powerline tool. The XAV5004 should wakeup.

BTW: I believe the newest firmware for the XAV5001 helped a lot. When I am using 2 XAV5001 the wakeup seems to work. But if there is a XAV5004 with the actual firmware I still have the standby issue.
Message 16 of 32
whoit
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

@PageDefault - I'll try the rename thing - thanks. Of course, the problem is that I use the 5004 for my TV/DVD/Netflix, so I'd have to go to my office and wake it up, or just power cycle it under the TV (it's never simple, is it?)

My 5001's have performed well from the start. It's just the 5004 that's been trouble.
Message 17 of 32
Susie23
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Facts:

1. Netgear free phone support is only LIMITED, similar to the warranty support policy of other manufacturers.

2. Netgear stands up for their product by continuouly providing FREE tech support, product upgrades, and issue fixes through the e-mail support or through the support online website.

3. To some the device would work perfectly fine, and to some it may not at all. It depends on the settings, condition, network set up, interference, compatibility, etc.

4. "It works before but it stops working" Try to figure out what happen along the way and consider all posibilities.

5. "Dont let the chicken eat the dog; but let the dog eat the chicken." Every product has a limitation. Dont force something that wont work; the solution is get a better product that doesnt not limit your needs.

6. "Netgear is a business." If you have an extra $, Let the pro assist you. Netgear provides premium support. They can work on 3rd party devices, remote access support, and nerve breaking issues.

7. No matter how good you are; no matter who you are or what title is; and no matter how many years you are working on this and that; One thing is certain; You still lack of something that is why you are in this forum.

8. You either hate these facts or love it.
Message 18 of 32
whoit
Tutor

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

@Susie23
Wow, I don't know if you think you're some kind of philosopher, or if you work for NetGear, or why you even posted that list of nonsense. Your English grammar is pretty good though.

Unfortunately, none of that has anything to do with this thread which describes why I'm dissatisfied with NetGear products and their support.
Rather than repeat myself since it's all here in writing, I'll only add this:

1) Many other people are having the same problem with the XAV 5004 as I am.

2) Their support is actually better than when I first started this thread. Instead of simply asking me to pay for support after 90 days, they now try to resolve the problem and have, in fact, swapped out my 5004 (twice). So, I'll amend my comments to say the Support is much better than before, even after 90 days.

3) My comments about the products not performing as advertised still stands.
Message 19 of 32
BongoKongo
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Well, I have just had my XAV5004 & XAV5001 replaced because my device has exactly the same issue ( less than a week old).

After going into Powersave mode, the XAV5004 unit will not wake up again, unless it is power cycled or reset & then it will function correctly once more (until it goes into Powersave mode again).

I think the reason most people are not having this problem is because their device is constantly in use & not going into powersave mode. But if you have it connected to a PS3 only,, and then you turn the game console off for a while the XAV5004 stops functioning & will not wake up when you turn the PS3 back on again. It also does the same with my Canon Printer & XBox 360.

Plus both of the replacement units still have exactly the same issue.

Also the Powerline Firmware upgrade tool never detects any Powerline adapters so it doesn't work either & I don't know if my Firmware (V.0.2.0.9NA) is the current up to date version.
There is no other way that I can download & install fixes is there?

I have seen heaps of posts on Google with people having the exact same issues, so I know that it is not just a small group who are having this issue.

Surely Netgear are smart enough to be able to fix it with a tiny firmware upgrade,, & surely they aren't that lousy or cheap that they won't do it.

This exact problem has been around since the product was first released years ago. So WHY is it still an issue now??
Was the device released in a broken or unfinished state? Because it definitely does not work as Netgear have advertised that it does.

Don't they realize that all of this negative press is eventually going to do them harm.

I want it fixed or I want a full refund so I can buy a different product Brand that actually works.
Message 20 of 32
BongoKongo
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

OK,, So I just discovered that there is no freedom of speech here on this forum.
You cannot post anything that is truthful or which may reflect badly on Netgear. All posts are moderated (or censored first).

Well,,So be it, if you want to play dirty then so can I!

I always copy & save my posts,, so unless you decide to post them here I will post them where they get 1000 times more views than they get on this forum.

Now,,Lets see,, I will start with the "Whirlpool Broadband Forums", then on the "Not Good enough.org site" for starters & a few others besides.

But just by posting on those two sites alone,, my TRUE complaints about Netgear will be seen by millions.
Message 21 of 32
JonnoT
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

I wish NetGear would just fix this issue. Surely, it's not worth the bad publicity?

I've had bad experiences with NetGear in the past (again, dodgy firmware), but decided to try their Ethernet over Power products as they seemed to be one of the more mature vendors of EoP.

The sleep issue pretty much sabotages an otherwise perfect product!

I don't have much hope that they're going to fix it, but would like to hear a response from NetGear.
Message 22 of 32
marc311
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

whoit wrote:
Support? For a fee? When issues aren't resolved?
Yes, Netgear's support is garbage and I'll never buy another of their products.

What's the story?
I bought 2-XAV5001s and 1-XAV5004 in Oct 2011.
The 5001s work fine.
The 5004 rarely comes out of sleep mode. I usually have to unplug/replug it to get it to connect.

I discovered this within the first 30 days of ownership and had a replacement unit sent from the reseller. Nothing changed - still the same. I opened a case with Netgear and it was never resolved.
The firmware is the same version as when I bought it.
The forum has several other people complaining about the same thing.

I still have the problem and now that I have a little time to address it again, guess what? The case was closed, and they want me to pay for support. The support tech wouldn't stop talking about the one-year contract and how it covers all my devices. I don't want that junk - I can manage my own devices myself. I really don't want their support for my pc or my ipod - how stupid is that?

What I want is for them to stand behind their devices, stand behind their software, and quit ripping off their customers with crappy support for 90 days.





If you dont want to pay the paid support(phone extension support), you can avail the support website to do a self research on how to fix your concern or you can avail the email support which is for free as well.
Message 23 of 32
humbala
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

Same problem here, need to power cycle the unit, it's super annoying and we cannot downgrade the firmware!
Message 24 of 32
JonnoT
Aspirant

Re: Why I'll never buy NetGear again - EVER

I've just about had enough.

This is an otherwise perfect product let down by a simple bug introduced by a new "feature".

I've written to Netgear's CEO, Patrick Lo appealing for assistance on this. Might be worth people affected by this to do the same (email address should be first.last at netgear.com).
Message 25 of 32
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