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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Yes, I also know there are others who have been contacted by Netgear's engineers to try and recover the data, but most of it is not recoverable

 

I asked on this forum a few days ago now if there's an answer to how Netgear is going to bear the liability for the data lost but I'm not receiving any answers

Message 651 of 707
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

_shaw is that using the same user you use to post on the community or a different one?

 

If you PM me I can lookup the user to see where your case is at.

Message 652 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

mdgm are you purposefully not answering my question?

Message 653 of 707
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

sassinemichel you're already in contact with support and customer service so best to continue your discussions with them.

 

Support is still working to attempt to recover more of your data than they've been able to so far. They may be unsuccessful in this but that's the next step.

 

Data recovery attempts can be quite time consuming when it's not straightforward, as we've found in your case. They can even be completely unsuccessful sometimes. That's one of the reasons why you need to have a backup of important data available to restore from.

 

We put so much time into the backup features we have because no important data should be stored on the one device, no matter what that device is. If the primary copy of data is on your PC then the copy on your NAS is a backup.

 

We'd much rather have discussions about what level of backups is appropriate for your use case before problems are run into, than to have the discussion afterwards.

Message 654 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

My question was about how is Netgear going to bear the liability of the data they caused the NASes to erase.

 

My case is supposed to be the easiest to solve mdgm, I turned my machine into tech support mode right after the incident. I was assured by your team that the engineers would be able to restore the file names/structure, but no, and less than 400gb out of 5TB of data restored.

 

Again, my NAS was my storage space not a backup, who has 8TB of internal storage on their PC anyway, and that's completely beyond the point. 


Stop deciding what data is important in the stead of the clients of your company, the drive I bought from you guys deleted all my data, and it was triggered on your end. 

 

If you don't have an answer please ask whoever has one to come and reply on the forum

 

who is bearing the responsibility for the data that was lost

Message 655 of 707
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost


@sassinemichel wrote:

My case is supposed to be the easiest to solve mdgm


Well I can tell you it isn't. We've had much more straightforward cases. The community is not the appropriate forum to go into great detail on your support case. Support is still working on your case. Follow up with support and customer service.


@sassinemichel wrote:

 Again, my NAS was my storage space not a backup, who has 8TB of internal storage on their PC anyway, and that's completely beyond the point. 


Well that's your choice. If choose not to backup your data then you should have considered the risk you were taking. A second NAS is one option to backup. Then there's USB disks etc.

 

The warranty, ReadyCLOUD T&Cs etc. all make it clear that backups are entirely your responsibility regardless of what happens. Due to the exceptional circumstances we're going above and beyond making our best effort to attempt data recovery without our usual charges.

Message 656 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

You all keep pointing fingers at us for not backing up our NAS and that's it's our fault if we lose data because it's not backed up. That's well and good and I agree with that statement. What sets this apart, is, it's not the failure of the NAS. We ARE NOT the WEAK LINK. Netgear is the WEAK LINK here. Data got wiped out because of a failure on Netgear's end, not ours. Some of us are still looking for answers to our questions, which continually get swept under the rug or pushed back as our fault and it's not. Take ownership.

Message 657 of 707
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Guru

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost


@KenBennett wrote:

Take ownership.


They did say in the original announcement that the data loss resulted from their server outage, and they are providing free data recovery for affected customers.

 

So I am unclear on what you mean by "take ownership".

Message 658 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Yes, tthey did, and then if the person didn't have that data backed up, I see the moderators posts about how they should have backed up their data and then that goes back and forth like a ping pong ball. We relied on Netgear and believed their ads. No one expected things to happen that were strictly on their ends and no really viable info on how data got wiped from their server glitch and a setting got turned off that we have to explicitly turn on. Somewhere I missed that warning in the fine print.

Message 659 of 707
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Guru

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost


@KenBennett wrote:

I see the moderators posts about how they should have backed up their data and then that goes back and forth like a ping pong ball.

I agree that can fuel the fire, though if posters insist on using language with legal implications (like "liable") then Netgear probably does need to respond with the warranty limitations that do basically say that the customer is responsible for his own data.  Or not respond at all, which fuels the fire in a different way.

 

We aren't hearing the entire conversation either, since there is also the support dialog and case notes.  I think it'd work out better if customers who are receiving active support wait until that's finished and then post their outcomes.

 

FWIW, I fully understand why customers who are facing data loss are very angry about the whole mess, and your points about the unexpected results of this ReadyCloud server outage are well taken.

Message 660 of 707
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

There are plenty of things that can go wrong that are outside our control e.g. multiple disk failures, you accidentally deleting data, fire, flood, theft and more. There are plenty of reasons unrelated to the outage why you should be backing up your data.

 

We're doing what we can to attempt to recover data from home folders deleted due to the outage.

 

Say a $200 USB disk would be needed to backup your important data. If you don't get one and use it the clear implication is that you feel it would cost you less than $200 of your time to recreate any important data in the event that it's lost.

Businesses can spend tens of thousands of dollars (or more) on servers and still backup. Yet some people buy a few hundred dollar NAS and think that they can store their only copy of important data on that device and the RAID will "magically" protect their data against any and every possible problem.

 

Part of my role here is to provide advice as to what you should do in the future.

Message 661 of 707
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost


@KenBennett wrote:

and no really viable info on how data got wiped from their server glitch and a setting got turned off that we have to explicitly turn on. Somewhere I missed that warning in the fine print.


This has already been answered earlier in the thread. Due to an outage on the server side, the NAS came to believe that it was no longer registered to ReadyCLOUD and so the NAS proceeded to delete the ReadyCLOUD accounts and their home folders as it would if you were to choose to leave ReadyCLOUD using the GUI (the GUI option would warn you about the consequences). We've made changes on the server side to address this.

Message 662 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

With the greatest of respect to those techs that are having to face off to us very unhappy customers the explanation of this event is very minimalistic.  NetGear shouild accept that people that use this technology are rarely going to be naive enough to swallow it.

 

What were NetGear doing when this incident happened?  I don't accept an outage will take active action against accounts.  Something was changed in an uncontrolled way by NetGear that had a negative impact on all customers at a level that I think all owners of NetGear storage would not find acceptable.  Either that or someone else did it in which case NetGear need to come clean.  NetGear have to accept at a corporate level that the personal data that inidividuals hold on these devices may contain data that can compromise an individuals or organisations saftey and security.  

 

In my case I have done everything I should have done.  I have a full backup of all my data in the cloud.  The issue I have is that over a period of 2 weeks I STILL do not have ReadyCloud access to my device.  I can access it locally via RAIDAR and I can login as Admin.  But try as I might and after numerous reassuring emails that everything should be back to normal I cannot access the device.

 

Effectively this means that NetGear have taken away my access to MY device and continue to withold access to MY device from me for what is now over one month.  This must be sorted out NOW!  

 

Advice to techs:  do not take out your situation on your customers.  After all this was not caused by us.  Your organistion looks very poor indeed at the moment and the only people making the effort here is you.  Look to your bosses for the explanation and support us Netgear customers seek.

Message 663 of 707
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

The NAS has a security feature to delete ReadyCLOUD accounts and the home folders when you leave ReadyCLOUD. When you do this using the GUI you're warned of the consequences before we proceed. This was triggered unexpectedly without warning due to an unusual unexpected outage and we addressed the cause.

 

We're working with the users who used the ReadyCLOUD home folders and were affected by the outage to attempt to recover their data.

 

We're not blaming users for the outage, but backups are always the end user's responsibility. I make no apologies for recommending proper care be taken of important data. Once data is deleted we can only do our best to recover what we can. We may be able to recover anywhere from nothing through to everything. It varies from situation to situation how successful/not we are.

If you don't need any further data recovery attempt you could login to the local admin page, go to the Cloud tab, leave ReadyCLOUD, rejoin it and add your users back in. This should get you back up and running. If you're still having issues we'd need some info on where you're getting stuck with this process.

Message 664 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Thank you for that.  I will attempt that next time I am local to the device.

 

 

Message 665 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

mdgm, 

Say a $200 USB disk would be needed to backup your important data. If you don't get one and use it the clear implication is that you feel it would cost you less than $200 of your time to recreate any important data in the event that it's lost.


 

You are deciding yourself what is important and what is not - when I'm going to the beach with my son in my car I should pay $5K to have an ambulance follow me because if I don't it would be a clear implication that an accident would cost me less than $5K to have another child and get over an accident?

What you're saying is completely inappropriate, I lost video footage in this incident that is irreplaceable, I still can't fathom you feel that this thread is the right place to preach about backups and their necessity: backups are a preventive measure;

 

as of now, Netgear triggered the deletion of all my data, who is going to bear the responsiblity? still no answer 

Message 666 of 707
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Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Has support just decided to ignore us now?  I've been working with a tech for nearly a friggin' month now, trying to get my data back.  And now, about four days ago, the last email I got was the tech telling me he turned on photorec, which might actually work--I was getting data back--but then I got that "__percpu_counter_add+3c" error on the ReadyNas, which Google suggests is a known problem for your drive when a USB3 HDD is plugged into it.  So, great; I started getting some of the smaller files back, then apparently it stopped because of the error.  I've emailed the tech several times, then finally emailed support directly to ask what the hell's going on.

Message 667 of 707
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Guide

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

I am no expert but is it not a bad idea to have the "snapshots" in the same directory as the folder it refers to, a bad idea. If I accidentally destroy a directory I take all the snapshots with it.  Am I right in thinking if the "Home" folders deleted in this incedent had their snapshots stored in the main directory, then this might not have been as serious. May be this has been fixed in firmware 6.7.1 I'm still on 6.6 and no updates available. As I state I'm only a rookie.

Message 668 of 707
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Guru

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Welcome to the forum!


@Bell98 wrote:

I am no expert but is it not a bad idea to have the "snapshots" in the same directory as the folder it refers to, a bad idea. If I accidentally destroy a directory I take all the snapshots with it.  Am I right in thinking if the "Home" folders deleted in this incedent had their snapshots stored in the main directory, then this might not have been as serious. May be this has been fixed in firmware 6.7.1 


Each share (and each user home directory) is a btrfs subvolume, and unfortunately the snapshots were automatically deleted with the subvolume.  That was not changed in 6.7.1.  There is a bit of a tradeoff here - you want protection against accidental deletion, but on the other hand when you delete something intentionally you want to get the space back without needed to jump through a lot of other steps.  The problem here is that data was deleted silently and automatically.

 

 There is a related idea here (posted before the data loss btw): https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-for-ReadyNAS/Preserve-user-folder-when-readycloud-acc...  You might consider upvoting it, though Netgear might have implemented at least partially.


@Bell98 wrote:

I'm still on 6.6 and no updates available. 


6.7.1 is available for manual download/install - generally it takes a week or so before Netgear puts it on their update servers.

 

 

 

Message 669 of 707
Highlighted
Guide

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Upvoted - I'm also aware of the security issues involved with Home Folder snapshots being held in a separate folder. You wouldn't want other users on your Readynas prying through your previous material.

Message 670 of 707
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Seven weeks since this started and it seems people like me are no further forward. I am still talking to support who have gone quiet AGAIN and only seem to respond on a friday meaning my NAS is in support mode all weekend and my none the wizer for another week. Whats more is I am getting no information from them as to what I am to do! What's more is I have been without my main backing up system for the same time in the vain hope this would be sort quickly. Am I supposed to by another NAS to maintain my backups while Netgear carry on.

 

In the mean time I have been looking at all the other Nas devices out there from other manufacturers as I am now done with netgear. As a business user and private user I will never buy from them again. This is yet another display of shoddy customer ethics from netgear.

Message 671 of 707
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Aspirant

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Hi - it feels similar here. I have had my nas in technical support mode for several weeks. The helpful netgear support team here explained that they couldn't see it. I have now moved it to a static public IP and still no joy.
Are there any user manageable data recovery tools we can try ourselves?
Message 672 of 707
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Guru

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost


@_shaw wrote:


Are there any user manageable data recovery tools we can try ourselves?

 

Some users have reported success with ReclaiME (though I haven't used it myself).
Message 673 of 707
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Aspirant

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

I'm a bit stumped. My Netgear 102 is second-hand. It has been in technical support mode but it reverts to the default IP address and therefore can't be accessed remotely. Because it's second-hand the support team can't help me. Any suggestions?
Message 674 of 707
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Aspirant

Re: User has been Auto deleted - all data lost

Hold on that - support still talking to me.
Message 675 of 707
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