Reply

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

exibar
Luminary

rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

so my saga continues.  I ahve all good drives now, with zero unrecoverable sectors.  I was able to make a raid1 array no problems with it.  XRAID.

   I got in another pair of identical drives, verified they also have zero errors, pass smart, etc etc.

  I slide one drive in and the unit sees it, and it flips to raid 5 and starts to add it to the array... I think all is well finally!  percentage goes up fairly well...  couple hours go by, I take a shower and come back and see it sitting at like 2.12% with over 1000 hours estimated time.  I run a quick SMARTCTL on the drives and the   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate   and  195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered   were climbing through the roof.

 

issues always seem to appear when I start to use more than those first two bays in this 6000... could be my imagination, but I've been around electronics a lot including EE in college... LOL, usually my gut is right 😞   I trust my gut, but always verify the data !  you guys know what I mean I'm sure 😉

 

   Could I have a bad backplane in this unit?  is this common at all in these things?

   I have a rn104 that I just got in (badly packaged and the door broke in transit, but seems to work and the seller was super cool) I  formatted and placed 4 of these drives into and the RAID array is initializing synching, now.  I still see those errors in smartctl though things are working, the percentage is going up, and time to complete is going down quite a bit until it will stabilize.

 

  how long should it take to initialize 4 x 8tb 7200 rpm drives in a rn104?

  how can I verify the backplane in the  6000?  I was thinking about getting 6 100gig drives and trying that... I I cannot afford 6 mor e8TB drives, and the time for resynch is killing me over here LOL... I figure 100gid drives will be super cheap and quper quick to synch for testing...

thoughts?   oh, and anyone have any MB's or backplanes available for a 6000?  I'm thinking maybe I just swap out the backplane and start with that, the backplane can't be too expensive.  

 

   I have yet to open this up to see if there is anything awry in there... hell, it could just be a loose cable or something stupid as the previous owners did upgrade memory and possibly cpu in this thing...

 

  thank you all for the help!  any thoughts are appreciated.    this whole thing is just simply frustrating I'm afraid 😞

   Mike B

Message 1 of 23

Accepted Solutions
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

so I think I found the root cause of my issue 🙂

 

I verified everything was good, from PSU, to the drives, the CPU, to the connections... everything...  except for one item, the memory.

I ran a memory test and the error count kept rising and rising took like 15 mins to get to 747 errors...

I pulled one module out and the errors went away.

I replaced them both with one of mine from the shelf and it verified perfection, 0 errors.

so I threw 6 256G drives in, started a factory reset (which never really completed before), and it went through first pass, no issues and really quickly.

   I'm initializing the array right now 6x265G drives and it says it should only take an hour and a half... so far things are fully usable and operational even during the array initialization (resynch).  

So it's looking good right now but I don't wanna jinx anything 🙂  I'll ahve to dig out 2x4Gig DDR2 ram sticks...  I have a full tray of 4G ram, wish I could use those, there are maybe 36 sticks sitting there in the tray gathering dust on the cover ;-(

View solution in original post

Message 19 of 23

All Replies
StephenB
Guru

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


@exibar wrote:

  how can I verify the backplane in the  6000? 


You can put create a volume on one drive, and then systematically boot the system up with the disk in each bay.  Then run the disk test (on the volume settings wheel), and see what happens.

 


@exibar wrote:

I run a quick SMARTCTL on the drives and the   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate   and  195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered   were climbing through the roof.

 

issues always seem to appear when I start to use more than those first two bays in this 6000...


FWIW, that suggests it could be power related.

 

 

Message 2 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


@StephenB wrote:

@exibar wrote:

  how can I verify the backplane in the  6000? 


You can put create a volume on one drive, and then systematically boot the system up with the disk in each bay.  Then run the disk test (on the volume settings wheel), and see what happens.

 

I did test creation of a new single drive volume in each bay, but I was not aware of that drive test.  I have my test drive ready to go, it's a 2TB, I'll pop that into the 3rd bay and try the test.

 


@exibar wrote:

I run a quick SMARTCTL on the drives and the   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate   and  195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered   were climbing through the roof.

 

issues always seem to appear when I start to use more than those first two bays in this 6000...


FWIW, that suggests it could be power related.

 

I was told this unit had a new PS added into it less than a year ago.  I wonder if they used a low powered supply?  I'll have to pop it open and see.  However, it's designed for 6 drives, I would think it can handle at least 3 without toppling over, but who knows right?  🙂

 

 thank you again!

   Mike B

 

ps:  I finally learned how to quote in this board!  yay!! 🙂

 

 


 

Message 3 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


 


@exibar wrote:

I run a quick SMARTCTL on the drives and the   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate   and  195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered   were climbing through the roof.

 

issues always seem to appear when I start to use more than those first two bays in this 6000...


FWIW, that suggests it could be power related.

 

 


you know,   this unit does appear to function ok with 2 drives in it... and things seem to go south with more than three...  maybe it IS power related?   I'm running the diesk test with my test drive in bay3 right now.  We'll see wht comes of that... but I have a feeling you may have hit the nail on the head there with the power related issue.

  Any tests for that?   I ahven't opened it, but I assume it's a standard AT style PS?  smaller form factor it seems, but are the connectors standard?  I can plug in a 600watt supply on the side and see if that makes a difference...  I could buy 6 100GB drives and throw them in as my test drives... or heck I probably have 6 laying around here on a shelf for testing LOL

 

 Mike B

Message 4 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

what wattage SFX PSU is required for these? 500watt sufficient? or should I look at a 750?

Message 5 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

so this is weird.  the disk test completed, but it appears like the entire unit shut down but the blue power light on the button was still lit up.  fans were off, drives were not spinning any more, nothing.  even tapping on the power button did nothing.  tapping several times did nothing, and I could not get to it via the GUI either.

  I had to press and hold the power button and it powered down after like 3 seconds.

 

weird?  or a sign the PSU is on the fritz?

 

Message 6 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

well, disk test completed, now it wont boot past 97%....  no matter what slot I put this disk in LOL  this was the working good disk with no errors ;-(

 

I am about giving up over here ;-(

Message 7 of 23
StephenB
Guru

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


@exibar wrote:

what wattage SFX PSU is required for these? 500watt sufficient? or should I look at a 750?


It shipped with a 300 watt supply.

Message 8 of 23
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

The original 300W supply has more 12V than most typical ones of that rating, and it's what powers the drives.  I always recommend you go with at least 350W in a replacement, and I usually go with 400 myself.  Higher will, of course, work.

Message 9 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

so this is what's in it now, a 350.  I could only find my old 20pin PSU tester, but that one shows no power on the -5 output.  Once I find my 24pin PSU tester I'll be able to fully test it.   Not sure if -5 is on the additional 4 pins on the PSU or not.

 

20220529_020806.jpg

Message 10 of 23
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

Most supplies have dropped the -5V because it's just not used today.  The original supply for the unit has no -5V rating listed and I don't believe the NAS uses it if it's available.  On your supply, the +5 and +3.3 are rated below that of the original, but should be more than enough.  Everything else it at or above the original's rating.  So if it's working properly, that's not the issue.  But if you are measuring the voltages with no load, that's not a very good test.

Message 11 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

this is a specific PSU tester that puts a load on the PSU.  It's just that it's an older tester that is meant for the older 20pin only supplies, where modern supplies have 24pin for the MB.

 

Mike B

Message 12 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


@Sandshark wrote:

  On your supply, the +5 and +3.3 are rated below that of the original, but should be more than enough.  

 

 


holy cow, this PSU is rated for 15A on 3.3 and 5v, I would never think anything would take more than that.  3.3 and 5v are only for the logic board on the drives and the fan too I believe, the motors in the HDDs use the 12v rails.

  What was the original PSU rated for on each rail?  

 

  I have a new SFX PSU coming in on Wed that is 500W max, with 33A on the 12volt rails.  14A on the 3.3 and 5v rails, which I would have figured would be much more than enough.  j

   I've pulled 6 drives off the shelf that have small capacity, but all spin at 7200RPM and should take the same current draw as these seagate exos 8TB I have that I want to use.  I'll build up a 6drive array with these and hopefully it won't take days to initialize with that small capacity (250Gb each).

 

I'll try with the existing PSU and with the new one when it arrives also.  see if there is any difference between the two scenarios.

 

everything inside the unit looks super clean.  I haven't pulled the backplane out, but I don't see any obvious damage from the previous owner.  and the PSU inside it looks very well installed, professional job for sure, not just slapped in place.

 

 Mike B 

Message 13 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

wow, I found my PSU tester, and started the unit up and got a shock on my arm that was leaning on the top of the NAS.  I took some readings with my meter and found that the PSU has a fault to the chassis somewhere inside it.

That can't be good, LOL...  I seem to be getting voltage at all the connectors, but there is for sure a short somewhere.

I can also feel the electric short when I put my bare feet on the basement concrete floor and drag my fingertips across the metal NAS chassis.. know what I mean about that?  kinda tingle a bit, and for sure a shock on the side of my arm.

 

   I have a new PSU coming in Wed.  I'll try that out.  If this unit doesnt' do the trick, well, I'll just sell the whole kit and kaboodle  on ebay or something...  I dont' think I'll bother with it after swapping PSU's.

 

 Mike B

Message 14 of 23
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

It is unlikely that you felt a shock from the DC side of the supply.  It's more likely on the AC side.  But since the chassis is tied to safety ground, not neutral, it's hard to imagine how that's happening (even if the current replacement supply was installed with the AC wires backwards) unless the safety ground is also compromised.

Message 15 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

it's for sure the DC side and is the case of the PSU itself, must be a short on the inside of the PSU.  if I isolate the PSU, and leave all wires connected into the NAS, the short is contained to the chassis of the PSU, so at least it's not a short within the NAS.

 

odd huh?  I'm sure this could be playing havoc with the NAS read/writes I would think

Message 16 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

although it could be the AC side if the outlet has a short in it too...  I never checked that end of things....

Message 17 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

oh, the current PSU was wired:    Blue, ground, White   so the ground isnt' where neutral or hot should be...   I'm not near it, but I'll check the outlet itself later tonight.  I am using a 3 prong power cord as well.

Message 18 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

so I think I found the root cause of my issue 🙂

 

I verified everything was good, from PSU, to the drives, the CPU, to the connections... everything...  except for one item, the memory.

I ran a memory test and the error count kept rising and rising took like 15 mins to get to 747 errors...

I pulled one module out and the errors went away.

I replaced them both with one of mine from the shelf and it verified perfection, 0 errors.

so I threw 6 256G drives in, started a factory reset (which never really completed before), and it went through first pass, no issues and really quickly.

   I'm initializing the array right now 6x265G drives and it says it should only take an hour and a half... so far things are fully usable and operational even during the array initialization (resynch).  

So it's looking good right now but I don't wanna jinx anything 🙂  I'll ahve to dig out 2x4Gig DDR2 ram sticks...  I have a full tray of 4G ram, wish I could use those, there are maybe 36 sticks sitting there in the tray gathering dust on the cover ;-(

Message 19 of 23
StephenB
Guru

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


@exibar wrote:

so I think I found the root cause of my issue 🙂

 

I verified everything was good, from PSU, to the drives, the CPU, to the connections... everything...  except for one item, the memory.

I ran a memory test and the error count kept rising and rising took like 15 mins to get to 747 errors...

 


Great news.

Message 20 of 23
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


@exibar wrote:

 I have a full tray of 4G ram, wish I could use those, there are maybe 36 sticks sitting there in the tray gathering dust on the cover ;-(


There are some 4G sticks that work.  The have to be DDR2, non-ECC, unbuffered, and use 2Rx8 banks.  Many 4G ram sticks of that era were for servers, so don't meet those criteria.  But you can check and see if any do.  If they don't say if they are 2Rx8 or 2Rx4, the chip count will often tell you.  If here are 16 chips on one side, it's 2Rx4.  And you can just try them out -- it won't hurt anything.

 

BTW, the ram is not dual-channel, so you don't need to install both to check them out and mismatched sticks won't slow anything down.

Message 21 of 23
StephenB
Guru

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(


@Sandshark wrote: There are some 4G sticks that work.
 

FWIW, one that does is the Patriot PSD28G800K.

Message 22 of 23
exibar
Luminary

Re: rndp6000-200 saga continues :-(

that tray of memory I have is all ddr3 😞

but I'm sure I have some ddr2 floating around that are 2G or 4G, I have so much surplus stuff over here it's not funny LOL

 

I may just buy new samsung memory from ebay though, and not take the chance of something that was pulled a decade ago and thrown into a box.

 

thanks for the help!

   Mike B

Message 23 of 23
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
  • 22 replies
  • 1263 views
  • 2 kudos
  • 3 in conversation
Announcements