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Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

First: While posting this, I could only select between GS108T and GS108Tv1 and GS108Tv2. Sadly, the dropdown to select the model doesn't contain what I have, namely GS108Tv3. Someone should fix that.

 

Now...

 

Crossposting here as well, since I can't tell if GS108Tv3 has a problem recognizing the live signal coming from a re-firmwared Orbi RBR50v2 or whether RBR50v2 is not sending something out that it should to "wake up" any managed switches on the network after getting re-firmwared for them to start listening to the incoming signal port.

 

Original: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-2-3-5-30-required-me-to-unplug-replug-all...

 

Included below for convenience:

 

"This one was weird... I used the auto UpdateAll feature on the Orbi web management page to update my RBR50v2 router to the latest firmware 2.3.5.30, after a while all finished and seemed fine. Then I realized that instead of 25 devices, there were about 10-15 on my network. Wut? So, I look at what is missing, and notice all my newly installed managed GS108Tv3 switches, and all the devices connected to them, are missing. I literally had to walk around the house and unplug/replug all of them to powercycle. Then things went back to normal.

 

Except.... My WIRED speed on my PCs went down. Way down. Wut? After some headscratching....

 

I had forgotten to unplug/replug one GS108Tv3 that was connected to the LAN output of my RBR50v2, whose job was to feed a 24-port home network distribution switch which then fed wired ethernet to all the rooms, which all my three satellite RBS50v2 are connected to for wired backhaul. Since that ONE and FIRST GS108Tv3 right out of the RBR50v2 actually was offline, it wasn't feeding the 24-port distribution switch, which meant the wired satellites weren't getting anything on the wire, which included the satellite closest to the router, which then connected to the router wirelessly, and started pumping a signal back INTO the wall from which it wasn't getting any signal as it was supposed to, essentially became a producer instead of consumer of the ethernet signal, which then ended up feeding the 24-port through the port that was feeding that wall jack, which then ended up feeding the whole house through the other ports of the 24-port. Therefore the remaining satellites were "wired" as well as everything else in the house, but all the traffic was going through that wireless connection between the router and the one satellite.


I guess this is the beauty of the selfhealing nature of the TCP/IP networks. Designed to withstand a nuclear war, and therefore can withstand one missing switch, if it can.


Still, though. All my GS108Tv3 deciding to stay inactive at their incoming port after the Orbi update's completion is disconcerting. I will crosspost this to the Managed Switch forum, too, since I can't tell if GS108Tv3 has a problem recognizing the live signal coming from a re-firmwared Orbi RBR50v2 or whether RBR50v2 is not sending something out that it should to "wake up" any managed switches on the network after getting re-firmwared for them to start listening to the incoming signal port. @Blanca_O

 

Tuna"

Model: GS108T|ProSafe 8 ports gigabit smart switch
Message 1 of 15

Accepted Solutions
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

So, since the last messages here, here is what I did:

 

  • Updated all my GS108Tv3 to the latest firmware that just got released a few days back, 7.0.1.20, even though it doesn't list anything related to this in the Release Notes, as far as I can tell.
  • Went into the Admin pages of each switch, navigated to SWITCHING > L2 LOOP PROTECTION, selected "g8" since that is the port I use on all my switches as the "incoming wire", set "Keep Alive" to DISABLE (which, according to the online help on the admin page, would turn off the feature just on this port), set "Rx Action" to LOG (which, according to the online help, would only log the event instead of disabling the port, in case a loop was detected, presumably only if the loop detection on this port got re-enabled somehow).

After this, regardless if I powercycled a satellite, or issued a REBOOT to the router, once everything settled down, everything was working. So, I am not sure what "fixed" it:

 

  • Is it some undocumented/unrelated feature/fix in the new switch firmware (like, maybe, the fact that they removed the requirement of authentication with the Netgear account as opposed to the local password during every single switch reboot)?
  • Is it me changing loop detection on the incoming port?
  • Is it that somehow today none of my satellites are having the chance to establish a wireless backhaul before they can establish a wired backhaul, due to alignment of the stars?
  • Is the order of things coming back onto the network today after a router reboot is somehow different than a few days ago?
  • Did the last night's latest DHCP-assigned-IPs change when my satellites/switches are getting reactivated after a router reboot?
  • ...

 

I'll report back here if the issue comes back.

 

Tuna

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Message 15 of 15

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schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

While the GS108Tv3 is not a managed switch (it's just a Smart Managed Pro model): Like every Ethernet device, when an Ethernet cable is plugged or the interface on the other device (here: Orbi) is enabled, we can expect that the Ethernet link is negotiated and established. No magic wake-up signalling or whatever.

 

@ChristineT  please ensure the newer switch models are all added to the community model selection, thank you!

Message 2 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

I guess the Managed in Smart Managed Pro fooled me... Smiley Happy

 

Exactly! Everything should have just worked. However, after my one RBRv2 router + three RBSv2 wired-backhaul satellites finished auto-updating, incoming ports (in my case Port 8, since that is what I use as a self-imposed standard) on all four of my GS108Tv3 were dark. Unplug/replug of the Ethernet cable on those Port 8 did NOT help. Only unplug/replug of the power cord to the switch did.

 

Tuna

Message 3 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

OK, this is worse than I thought. That wonderful story about my network healing itself seems to be the culprit. I did a few more tests and reduced it to the following. It doesn't have much to do with the firmware update, but more to do with rebooting the router or satellite (Yes! Even a satellite reboot causes this!).

 

Now the question is:

 

  • is there a setting in the switches to accomodate this transient behavior, or
  • if this is something to report to the switch people to fix in the firmware, or
  • if there is a way to tell Orbi satellites that they are always in the wired backhaul and to never try to connect wirelessly to the router or another satellite, or
  • if Orbi firmware should always make sure that if there is a wire connected, to wait for a while before establishing wireless backhaul, and try wired backhaul first.

Here is what I found out through experimentation:

 

Setup: Orbi router RBK50v2 & satellite RBS50v2, both running latest firmware 2.3.5.30. Router feeds an older but very trustworthy and stable 24-port unmanaged non-fancy Netgear switch in my "equipment room". One port of this 24-port feeds a wire to the wall jack of a room to which the satellite is connected. The satellite is both within range of the router (so, it can do wireless backhaul if it wants to) and is wired to the wall because it works with wired backhaul. Other outputs from the 24-port feed other rooms, and some of those rooms have the GS108Tv3 switches, all running the latest firmware 7.0.0.16, while other rooms have older unmanaged Prosafe Plus switches.

 

Scenario: Have everything running happily. Life is good. Now, to simulate a reboot that might come due to a power flicker or power outage or somebody bumping something or a firmware upgrade or an admin action, unplug the SATELLITE (i.e. not even the ROUTER), count to 10, then plug it back in. For a short while the satellite boots up, the white light pulsates gently, then stops. At that point, if you can catch it in time, the router admin webpage shows that the satellite is connected to it WIRELESSLY, even though it is wired to the wall. So, clearly, Orbi defaults to a wireless backhaul upon reboot. At that point, for those few seconds, the router even reports that GS108Tv3 around the house are connected, but I couldn't physically verify that since I am not The Flash to run around that fast; that might have been Orbi router showing me stale information. But within seconds of this, you lose all connection to any device, including the router (i.e. 192.168.1.1 cannot be accessed anymore). I think this is because the SATELLITE that is getting wireless backhaul "ethernet signal" from the router decides to pump out an ethernet signal through the wire leading to the wall that was originally meant to feed it the ethernet coming from the router through the 24-port. Now, the satellite feeds the 24-port, and the 24-port feeds everyone. I.e. all the switches around the house are getting this signal, including the GS108Tv3. Which means, for a bit, both the router and the satellite are feeding the 24-port, and the 24-port is sending out God knows what from the other ports. Maybe it even goes back to the router, so the router now might have a WAN input and a LAN input (that was a LAN output to the 24-port). That is probably why the router takes some sort of evasive action and disappears from the net. Eventually things settle down, the router is up and running again at 192.168.1.1, the satellite is on wired backhaul, everything is back to normal, including any of the old unmanaged switches in the rooms. Except: All the GS108Tv3 are now dark on their incoming port that was briefly flickering while the satellite was first plugged back in, and then went dark, and obviously stayed dark.

 

Bottomline: This will happen to me every time any of my Orbi reboots/reinitializes, either because of actual power loss or some wired connection loss to the router which will result in a wireless connection and briefly become a producer of the signal than a consumer. Yikes!

 

At this point, if this situation does NOT affect any of the non-smart non-GS108Tv3 various switches in action around the house, I am going to blame the GS108Tv3 firmware and report it. But, it is also disconcerting that a wired satellite might become a producer of wireless-converted-to-wired ethernet for a short bit during every reboot instead of waiting to see if that wired connection it senses will start feeding it instead. 

 

Thoughts?

 

Tuna

Message 4 of 15
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches


@tuna_ertemalp wrote:

All the GS108Tv3 are now dark on their incoming port that was briefly flickering while the satellite was first plugged back in, and then went dark, and obviously stayed dark.

...

But, it is also disconcerting that a wired satellite might become a producer of wireless-converted-to-wired ethernet for a short bit during every reboot instead of waiting to see if that wired connection it senses will start feeding it instead. 


Reads like the GS108Tv3 disables the port because it's detecting a loop (spanning tree) and does close the affected port.

Message 5 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

Hmmm... Thanks for that tip. I'll find the online user manual and see if there is any way to turn that off for Port 8 that I use as my convention for the uplink on all of them. There is a an admin page for "L2 Loop Detection" but the settings I cannot yet decipher. I am guessing that's the one. There was nothing about "Span".

Message 6 of 15
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

Don't know, this model hasn't made it into my home market yet, and there is no User Manual online, too - so can just guess. For a Smart Managed Pro (you talk of a GS108Tv3 [very new model], not an GS108Ev3 model, correct?) I would expect to see more than the basic Loop Detection feature (standard on the Smart Managed Plus), should be Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) with the enhanced RSTP and MSTP options. 

Message 7 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

Message 8 of 15
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

Configure authentication lists on p.293 FF talks about the local user account again?
Message 9 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

All that stuff you suggested starts on page 163. And, going through until page 180, I couldn't make heads or tails of it. Way above my my rudimentary knowledge of network stuff. 

 

Tuna

 

Message 10 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

> Configure authentication lists on p.293 FF talks about the local user account again?

 

Not sure what these settings should be configured as, and also not sure how this would help what I am seeing. What are your thoughts behind suggesting this?

 

Tuna

Message 11 of 15
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

I don't know either on how this part of the docs will match to the current product with the Netgear account only. Have asked for assistance, also direct with @YeZ ... there they talk of the local admin account. Figure. Beyond me, too. A solution where the Netgear account is requested only once is supposed to be in the engineering process as we're writing.

Message 12 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

Hmmm... Maybe you are talking about the other thread:https://community.netgear.com/t5/Smart-Plus-Click-Switches/GS108Tv3-cannot-use-local-login-with-inte... Are you sure your last response to me wasn't meant for that thread?

I don't think my issue of my incoming Port 8 shutting down on all of my GS018Tv3 after the Orbi system has recovered from a Satellite power off/on reboot has anything to do with that issue.

 

Tuna

Message 13 of 15
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

Sorry for my confusion, mixed two open threads.

 

Back to the switch where either the switch or Orbi does shutdown the Ethernet port. You talked about loop detection - a feature we know more of the Smart Managed Plus (GS108Ev[xxx]), while the Smart Managed Pro like the GS108Tv[xxx] are supporting the "real" spanning tree (STP) and the advanced RSTP and MSTP. No other way than get access to a switch [direct probably] and check the logs ans the port status for the port that went down.

Message 14 of 15
tuna_ertemalp
Luminary

Re: Orbi firmware update 2.3.5.30 required me to unplug/replug all my GS108Tv3 switches

So, since the last messages here, here is what I did:

 

  • Updated all my GS108Tv3 to the latest firmware that just got released a few days back, 7.0.1.20, even though it doesn't list anything related to this in the Release Notes, as far as I can tell.
  • Went into the Admin pages of each switch, navigated to SWITCHING > L2 LOOP PROTECTION, selected "g8" since that is the port I use on all my switches as the "incoming wire", set "Keep Alive" to DISABLE (which, according to the online help on the admin page, would turn off the feature just on this port), set "Rx Action" to LOG (which, according to the online help, would only log the event instead of disabling the port, in case a loop was detected, presumably only if the loop detection on this port got re-enabled somehow).

After this, regardless if I powercycled a satellite, or issued a REBOOT to the router, once everything settled down, everything was working. So, I am not sure what "fixed" it:

 

  • Is it some undocumented/unrelated feature/fix in the new switch firmware (like, maybe, the fact that they removed the requirement of authentication with the Netgear account as opposed to the local password during every single switch reboot)?
  • Is it me changing loop detection on the incoming port?
  • Is it that somehow today none of my satellites are having the chance to establish a wireless backhaul before they can establish a wired backhaul, due to alignment of the stars?
  • Is the order of things coming back onto the network today after a router reboot is somehow different than a few days ago?
  • Did the last night's latest DHCP-assigned-IPs change when my satellites/switches are getting reactivated after a router reboot?
  • ...

 

I'll report back here if the issue comes back.

 

Tuna

Message 15 of 15
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