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Aspirant

GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable

My topology:

 

AT&T Pace router -- IQrouter -- GS108PEv3 -- GS105PE - access points

 

Both GS devices are brand new. They work correctly, essentially plug-n-play out of the box. Devices wired to the 108 work fine. The 108 powers the 105 fine. Devices wired to the 105, and WiFi devices on the access points on the 105 work fine.

 

The IP addresses for both devices are visible in the IQrouter's listing but no hostname is associated.

 

The 108 can't be pinged, no matter where my Mac is plugged in. "request timeout for icmp_seq" even when plugged directly into it.

 

The 105 can be pinged.

 

Neither device will provide an admin page at https://ipaddress.

 

I installed the ProSAFE utility in Windows, and it cannot see any switches.

 

I plugged my Mac directly into the 108, did factory reset, tried static IP on my mac and tried the default .239 address. Cannot ping or https.

 

So they are working but I cannot reach them to manage them in any way.

Model: GS108PEv3|ProSAFE Gigabit Plus Switch with PoE
Message 1 of 13

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Highlighted
Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@rsworden wrote:

 AT&T Pace router -- IQrouter -- GS108PEv3 -- GS105PE - access points

 

Both GS devices are brand new. They work correctly, essentially plug-n-play out of the box. Devices wired to the 108 work fine. The 108 powers the 105 fine. Devices wired to the 105, and WiFi devices on the access points on the 105 work fine.

 

The IP addresses for both devices are visible in the IQrouter's listing but no hostname is associated.


This does read like both switches DHCP client are working and get an IP config from the DHCP server on the router. A hostname is not "associated" - a DHCP client does not have to provide a hostname with the request, so the hostname can remain empty. Nothing wrong to that point 

 

@rsworden wrote:

 The 108 can't be pinged, no matter where my Mac is plugged in. "request timeout for icmp_seq" even when plugged directly into it.

 

The 105 can be pinged.

Potentially something wrong or broken on the 108. I would suggest to reset (restet button) and bring it up with jut a Mac or Windows system connected (without any other connection to the router or other systems). More below.

 

@rsworden wrote:

Neither device will provide an admin page at https://ipaddress.

This switch class/models don't support https - use http on port 80. 

 

@rsworden wrote:

I installed the ProSAFE utility in Windows, and it cannot see any switches.

There is a nice Netgear Switch Discovery Tool available for both Windows and macOS - perfectly sufficient for the pure discovery (and much less intrusive than the ProSafe Plus Utility with the network capture driver). 

 

@rsworden wrote:

I plugged my Mac directly into the 108, did factory reset, tried static IP on my mac and tried the default .239 address. Cannot ping or https.

If you expect the router fall-back to it's default IP address, you must run it without any connection ie. to the router with the DHCP server. Disconnect all network cables, just keep a link to one computer (Mac or Win does not matter - except of that we would have the ProSafe Plus Utility available on Windows).

Both Windows and macOS systems will auto-configure ZeroConfig addresses on the network interface if there is no DHCP server resp. no fixed network config. Therefore, you need to manually apply a fixed (or alternate) network config into the 192.168.0.0/24 255.255.255.0 network - just use unique addresses (not .239).  

Now you can try to ping the 192.168.0.239, discover it, or use a Web browser and call http://192.168.0.239/.

 

 

 

View solution in original post

Message 3 of 13

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Highlighted
Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable

Both switches have the same IP address out of the box, so you may have difficulty logging into them when they are connected together.

Remove one of the switches, then log into the other and change its IP address. Then you should be able to connect them together.

Message 2 of 13
Highlighted
Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@rsworden wrote:

 AT&T Pace router -- IQrouter -- GS108PEv3 -- GS105PE - access points

 

Both GS devices are brand new. They work correctly, essentially plug-n-play out of the box. Devices wired to the 108 work fine. The 108 powers the 105 fine. Devices wired to the 105, and WiFi devices on the access points on the 105 work fine.

 

The IP addresses for both devices are visible in the IQrouter's listing but no hostname is associated.


This does read like both switches DHCP client are working and get an IP config from the DHCP server on the router. A hostname is not "associated" - a DHCP client does not have to provide a hostname with the request, so the hostname can remain empty. Nothing wrong to that point 

 

@rsworden wrote:

 The 108 can't be pinged, no matter where my Mac is plugged in. "request timeout for icmp_seq" even when plugged directly into it.

 

The 105 can be pinged.

Potentially something wrong or broken on the 108. I would suggest to reset (restet button) and bring it up with jut a Mac or Windows system connected (without any other connection to the router or other systems). More below.

 

@rsworden wrote:

Neither device will provide an admin page at https://ipaddress.

This switch class/models don't support https - use http on port 80. 

 

@rsworden wrote:

I installed the ProSAFE utility in Windows, and it cannot see any switches.

There is a nice Netgear Switch Discovery Tool available for both Windows and macOS - perfectly sufficient for the pure discovery (and much less intrusive than the ProSafe Plus Utility with the network capture driver). 

 

@rsworden wrote:

I plugged my Mac directly into the 108, did factory reset, tried static IP on my mac and tried the default .239 address. Cannot ping or https.

If you expect the router fall-back to it's default IP address, you must run it without any connection ie. to the router with the DHCP server. Disconnect all network cables, just keep a link to one computer (Mac or Win does not matter - except of that we would have the ProSafe Plus Utility available on Windows).

Both Windows and macOS systems will auto-configure ZeroConfig addresses on the network interface if there is no DHCP server resp. no fixed network config. Therefore, you need to manually apply a fixed (or alternate) network config into the 192.168.0.0/24 255.255.255.0 network - just use unique addresses (not .239).  

Now you can try to ping the 192.168.0.239, discover it, or use a Web browser and call http://192.168.0.239/.

 

 

 

View solution in original post

Message 3 of 13
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable

use http on port 80

Yeah, somewhere in all the tech notes I thought it said https.

 

I disconnected all cables from the 108 except my Mac and factory reset it. When I reconnected it (alone) to the router, it got a new address from DHCP and after that it was pingable and answered properly to http.

 

Then I reconnected all the cables including the 105. I did NOT factory reset it, but it began answering properly to http.

 

I guess the original issue was that I had connected the 105 to the 108, then when I connected the 108 to the router they conflicted over the .239 address. That was not obvious, because each had also received an address from DHCP. But I guess they each had not fully abandoned the .239 address. So the lesson is to only hook up one at a time, since they are all hard-coded to use .239.

 

Thanks for mentioning the Mac discovery tool... I had not found that in the various tech notes. It would be nice if the paper Installation Guides included with the devices could be updated to mention it, instead of saying that only a Windows version is available. The Mac tool found both my switches and the names I assigned to them. The Windows tool still does not work, but now I don't need it.

 

Thank you all for the help!

Message 4 of 13
Highlighted
Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@rsworden wrote:

I guess the original issue was that I had connected the 105 to the 108, then when I connected the 108 to the router they conflicted over the .239 address. That was not obvious, because each had also received an address from DHCP. But I guess they each had not fully abandoned the .239 address. So the lesson is to only hook up one at a time, since they are all hard-coded to use .239.


This is a typical default behaviour of many embedded systems. If the DHCP client does not succeed getting an IP configuration within a reasonable time, the config does fail back to a default IP address, here the .239. 

 

Different, modern desktop and server OS fall-back to either a static configuration (if configured), or to a local-link address in the ZeroConf address space - IPv4 uses the special block 169.254.0.0/16 as per RFC 3927, while IPv6 hosts use the prefix fe80::/10. Now one could think about changing Netgear specs towards local-link addressing as the last resort (no static IP configured, no DHCP config). This would allow to connect a Windows or macOS network interface without having to temporarily reconfigure the interface to the 192.168.0.0/24 network  - but then some additional discovery method would be required to find the "right" address. More and more device firmware is coming with UPnP and Bonjour device announcement - in some years we might see a change in tis direction. 

 

@rsworden wrote:

Thanks for mentioning the Mac discovery tool... I had not found that in the various tech notes. It would be nice if the paper Installation Guides included with the devices could be updated to mention it, instead of saying that only a Windows version is available. The Mac tool found both my switches and the names I assigned to them. The Windows tool still does not work, but now I don't need it.

The NETGEAR Switch Discovery Tool is rather new, thus it does not exist on the QSG and UG of products in the market already longer. In fact it's one of the results of community and user feedback sessions held the last year. And I'm happy Netgear listened to us.

Glad it helped to bring your switches under management control.

Message 5 of 13
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Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


schumaku wrote: 

Now one could think about changing Netgear specs towards local-link addressing as the last resort (no static IP configured, no DHCP config). This would allow to connect a Windows or macOS network interface without having to temporarily reconfigure the interface to the 192.168.0.0/24 network  - but then some additional discovery method would be required to find the "right" address. More and more device firmware is coming with UPnP and Bonjour device announcement - in some years we might see a change in tis direction. 


There's already a discovery protocol that could be used: LLDP (Link Layer Discovery Protocol).  It can advertise, among other things, the device's IP address.  The IP address itself does not need to be link-local.  Many, but not all, of Netgear's managed switches support LLDP, so one option is for Netgear to make it available on all of their managed switches, like the GS108PE and GS105PE.

Message 6 of 13
Highlighted
Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@TheEther wrote:

There's already a discovery protocol that could be used: LLDP (Link Layer Discovery Protocol).  It can advertise, among other things, the device's IP address.  The IP address itself does not need to be link-local.  Many, but not all, of Netgear's managed switches support LLDP, so one option is for Netgear to make it available on all of their managed switches, like the GS108PE and GS105PE.


UPnP (in Windows) resp. Bonjour (macOS Safari) are readily available - to my knowledge there is no LLDP "client" or "tool" by default, so its not a choice. 

Message 7 of 13
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Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@schumaku wrote:

UPnP (in Windows) resp. Bonjour (macOS Safari) are readily available - to my knowledge there is no LLDP "client" or "tool" by default, so its not a choice. 


Open source LLDP implementations are readily available for Windows and macOS.  SSDP, the discovery protocol for UPnP, has a security issue: it can be used to launch DoS attacks.

Message 8 of 13
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Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@TheEther wrote:

Open source LLDP implementations are readily available for Windows and macOS.


Tools and utilities are not user friendly if standards are readily available. I was talking of the default standard OS. Otherwise we're back on the NSDP level and the ProSafe Utility level again ... at least without having a packet capturing and injecting driver on the network stack.

 


@TheEther wrote:

SSDP, the discovery protocol for UPnP, has a security issue: it can be used to launch DoS attacks.


Mostly academic. For networks having UDP port 1900 open to the wild Internet, or having malware and/or bots in what should be a trusted private network environment - then I agree.

This does bring me to the point that most older and current NTGR Smart Managed switches don't have a control to limit NSDP, UPnP SSDP, and Bonjour, and the Web UI to a defined VLAN. 

Message 9 of 13
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Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@schumaku wrote:

@TheEther wrote:

Open source LLDP implementations are readily available for Windows and macOS.


Tools and utilities are not user friendly if standards are readily available. I was talking of the default standard OS. Otherwise we're back on the NSDP level and the ProSafe Utility level again ... at least without having a packet capturing and injecting driver on the network stack.


But you haven't given a user friendly solution.  UPnP and Bonjour are protocols, not user friendly applications.  How did you envision they be used?

 

Message 10 of 13
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Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable


@TheEther wrote:


But you haven't given a user friendly solution.  UPnP and Bonjour are protocols, not user friendly applications.  How did you envision they be used?


UPnP SSDP discovered units show up in Windows Explorer, Bonjour Web services in macOS Safari Bonjour bookmarks ... agree?

Message 11 of 13
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Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable

Bonjour bookmarks? I had to look that up. Ok, I see. Except that Apple removed them in Safari 11. And not everyone wants to use Safari.

It sure would be nice to have a single, cross-platform solution. And let's not ignore those minority Linux users out there. :-)

Assuming that there isn't such a solution, then we're back to Netgear providing a utility.
Message 12 of 13
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Guru

Re: GS108PEv3 and GS105PE work but not reachable

Yes, and Apple must have receifed thousdans of complaints about the removed Bonjour bookmarks in Safari. Granted: That was bad design. No clue why Apple does not feel this should become part of Finder instead. But hey, there are no NAS, no 3rd party switches and routers. There is just Apple and nothing.

Needles to say, Netgear does have the new utility for a few months: The Netgear Switch Discovery Tool. Currently, the tool can discover all Smart Managed Plus (aka Plus or Web Managed) switches and the Nighthawk S8000 switch.
... 

For macOS and Windows. As there is no such thing like harmonised and unique Linux and Linux desktop - this is where the problems start - figure. Despite any argumentation,it will never become a real user friendly desktop OS. Linux has list this war years ago. And for the 0.0x% we don't need a utility. 

Message 13 of 13