Reply
Highlighted
Aspirant

Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

I bought three GS105PE switches, let me call them switches 6,7 & 8

I purchased Switch 6 in May 2019 and it came with Bootloader V1.4.0.5-VB, firmware V1.5.0.5.  PoE Passthru worked a treat.

In June I upgraded the FW to V1.6.04 (Bootloader remained the same) PoE passthru worked a treat.

In September 2019 PoE Passthru just stopped and at the time I had just purchased two additional GS105PE switches 7 & 8 which came with BL V1.6.0.1-VB and FW V1.6.0.3. PoE Passthru did not work.

I upgraded switches 7 & 8 to FW V1.6.0.4 (BL stayed the same) and PoE Passthru worked

I then looked to upgrade original switch 6 to the latest FW in the vain hope that it would pull in the latest Bootloader V1.6.0.1-VB but it didn't (PoE passthru worked until switch powered off and would not work when switch powered back on)

I downgraded the FW to 1.4.0.6 and then stepped through every iteration from FW1.4.0.6, 1.4.0.9, 1.5.0.4 (where BL version V1.4.0.5-VB made an appearance), FW 1.5.0.5, 1.6.0.3, 1.6.0.4, 1.6.0.6 as per switches 7&8.  The bootloader on Switch 6 would not upgrade to V1.6.0.1-VB.  How can I force it to do this.  Any advice appreciated

Model: GS105PE|ProSafe Plus 5 ports switch with PoE pass through
Message 1 of 10

Accepted Solutions
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Hi Schmaku

 

No rant intended, just frustration I guess.  Thanks to all the information you have provided me I am now more equipped to make a quantifiable research into devices that I intend to use.  I certainly know a great deal more now about PoE and can make more informed decisions, bring out the extension power lead and PoE injectors I guess lol.

 

Many thanks

Ian

View solution in original post

Message 10 of 10

All Replies
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader


@Murrayfield wrote:

I downgraded the FW to 1.4.0.6 and then stepped through every iteration from FW1.4.0.6, 1.4.0.9, 1.5.0.4 (where BL version V1.4.0.5-VB made an appearance), FW 1.5.0.5, 1.6.0.3, 1.6.0.4, 1.6.0.6 as per switches 7&8.  The bootloader on Switch 6 would not upgrade to V1.6.0.1-VB.  How can I force it to do this. 

As you correctly mentioned, only 1.5.0.4 firmware came budled with the 1.4.0.5 bootloader versions for the two chipset/hardware versions. To my knowlege, no bootloader updates were made available after that (up and including 1.6.0.6 firmware).

 

GS105PE 1.0.5.4 Boot Loader Updates.PNG

 

No idea if the V1.6.0.1-VB is for yet nother new hardware variant (Model does also show GS105PE-100000S for the one which came wit a newer bootloader?) or if Netgear does not see any urgent reason to update the VB hardware version to the newer code. @YeZ can you plese check this with the product manager or engineering?

 

 

Message 2 of 10
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Hi schumaku,

Many thanks for the response, would it be of any help for me to provide the serial numbers of each of the switches?

 

Message 3 of 10
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Again, based on the available GS105PE firmware kits: In absence of an included newer bootloader, there can't be an intention that the V1.6.0.1-VB bootloader should be installed as part of the update procedures for now. Back to the reported problem...

 


@Murrayfield wrote:

PoE passthru worked until switch powered off and would not work when switch powered back on


...these issues are commonly caused by non-sufficient power source resp. a to high load on the GS105PE. It appears sometimes that a soft reboot does "recover" and the GS105PE does start to supply power outside of the specs. Say you power the GS105PE from an 802.3af (plain PoE), and try to power a Cat0 or Cat3 802.3af device, this will not happen correctly. Reason is that the GS105PE does require power for it's internal switch circuits, and there is not enough power. Under some conditions a warm reset/reboot does falsely apply power to the PD. The point is that most vendors are lazy or try to stick on the safe side. Even if a 802.3af PoE device does pull less power than the class default, they request Class 0 or Class 3 - typically for operational safety and reliability. Please note that these two standards don't have a granular "dynamic" power request protocol of PoE++ 802.3bt - and the GS105PE has (again to my knowledge) no such capability, too.

What switch (or power injector) make/model/PoE specs are you using to power the GS105PE?

 

What device(s) are do you try to power from the GS105PE?

 

FMI: GS105PE: PoE troubleshooting 

Message 4 of 10
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Hi Schumaku,

I am feeding the GS105PE Port 5 from port 1 of a Netgear GS108PEv3 running FW 2.00.08

Port 1 of the GS105PE is providing LAN and power (or not in this case) to a Netgear WN370 WAP running FW 6.0.1.0_3875.

For testing purposes I have also connected the GS105PE to Port 3 of  a Netgear JGS524PE FW 2.0.1.26.  The results have been the same, no PoE passthru

Many thanks

Message 5 of 10
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Sorry, as an addition to my most recent posting, I have also used a PoE injector and this worked fine allowing the GS105PE to power the WAP.  I guess my contention is that all the componenents in the chain are Netgear and they are all the Pro-Safe product so I hope it is not unreasonable of me to expect them to work pretty seamlessly.

 

Many thanks for your help in this

Message 6 of 10
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader


@Murrayfield wrote:

I am feeding the GS105PE Port 5 from port 1 of a Netgear GS108PEv3 running FW 2.00.08

Port 1 of the GS105PE is providing LAN and power (or not in this case) to a Netgear WN370 WAP running FW 6.0.1.0_3875.

For testing purposes I have also connected the GS105PE to Port 3 of  a Netgear JGS524PE FW 2.0.1.26.


Both the GS108PEv3 and the JGS524PE are only serving PoE as per 802.3af - no PoE+ as per 803.at.

 


@Murrayfield wrote:

I have also used a PoE injector and this worked fine allowing the GS105PE to power the WAP. 


Whatever PoE injector that is - probably a PoE+ 802.3at device, or not fully IEEE standard compliant in case it's just 802.3af. See the KB link provided before: A PoE 802.3at switch or injector does provide enough power so the GS105PE can assign the full 15.4 W to one of the ports.


@Murrayfield wrote:

I guess my contention is that all the componenents in the chain are Netgear and they are all the Pro-Safe product so I hope it is not unreasonable of me to expect them to work pretty seamlessly.


Wrong expectation. You can't expect that the GS105PE does provide standard compliant 15.4 W (to power a Cat 0 or Cat 3 device) if the power source is only 15.4 W - and the GS105PE switch does (undoubtedly) requires some power to drive for it's own circuits.

===

When powered by IEEE 802.3af:

The GS105PE can power up only one Class 1/2 PoE device.
===

Even if the WN370 Tech Specs talk of a typical power usage of only 5.1 W, the device does - like almost every other wireless access point and more PD defined 802.3af Power over Ethernet (PoE) - requesting the "full" PoE category 0 or PoE category 3 levels (15.4 W - alas the 16.4 W in the KB re wrong IMHO). 

I'm convinced all similar posters claiming the GS105PE does only provide power following a reset are caused by the very same issue. 

 

Sorry, would love to provide a better explanation - however I can't change the facts.

Regards,
-Kurt

 

Message 7 of 10
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Hi Kurt

 

Thanks for the very detailed explanation, and yes, it all makes sense, however this implies that Netgear are supplying a product that cannot perform in concert with other devices in the same product family, (after all I am only providing one WN370 from the switch) whilst actively advertising them as fit for purpose. Why provide the GS105 without external power capability if they know that it cannot provide the oomph to do the job?  This means then, for me, that the GS105PE's that I have purchased are rather expensive doorstops and nothing better.  Would you say that this is a fair representation which I can include as a reason on returning them to Netgear for a refund

 

Thanks

Ian

Message 8 of 10
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Ian,

 

The GS105PE operate as designed and described when powered from 802.3at PoE+ (or newer, more powerful IEEE PoE++ 802.3bt standards) in my opinion. This is however difficult to understand in the bigger context.

 


@Murrayfield wrote:

...however this implies that Netgear are supplying a product that cannot perform in concert with other devices in the same product family, (after all I am only providing one WN370 from the switch) whilst actively advertising them as fit for purpose.. 


I'm sorry that the PoE thing is complex and not very transparent - even experienced networking engineers are not aware of these issues.

 

Now every network builder might understand that for example a GbE uplink port can't run on Gbit if it's connected to a Fast Ethernet only. The situation here is similar - but comes with a much higher complexity level.

 


@Murrayfield wrote:

Why provide the GS105PE without external power capability if they know that it cannot provide the oomph to do the job?  This means then, for me, that the GS105PE's that I have purchased are rather expensive doorstops and nothing better. 


A little bit of rant is allowed: Netgear should have enhanced the GS105PE data sheet, the Quick Installation Guide, and the User Manual with some more consumer understandable on the capabilities vs. the requirements. Just the KB article is in my opinion not sufficient, in fact as you see from the lack explanation of the PoE classes for example.  And then the PD devices must be much better specified - this does not apply only to Netgear, but much more to almost every PoE powerable device I had in my hands over the last years from major and niche vendors!

 

For example just stating a device requires 802.3af (but also 802.3at Type 1) "PoE" and does take say typically 5.8 W is not sufficient when it comes to sharing the available power from a single PoE source. The should add the required to add the PoE class required [and requested] (like Class 0 default "Classification unimplemented", Class 1 optional "Very low power", Class 2 optional "Low power", Class 3 optional "Mid power", ...).

 

In the industry and typical installations, there is always a PoE 802.3af or 802.3at Type 1, a 802.3at Type 2 PoE+, a 802.3bt Type 3 PoE++, a 802.3bt Type 4 4PPoE power source (typically on a switch), and a similar minimum requirement for the PD (powered device). PoE sources are rarely shared, except for very special deployments like (an example where we deployed many GS105PE) retail cashier desks with the inventory and bookkeeping access, the bar code / QR code scanner, the payment terminal (dedicated VLAN), ...

 

Unfortunately, Netgear does not pick-up valuable (?) information from experienced IT infrastructure people here in the community. 

Message 9 of 10
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: Netgear GS105PE will not load new bootloader

Hi Schmaku

 

No rant intended, just frustration I guess.  Thanks to all the information you have provided me I am now more equipped to make a quantifiable research into devices that I intend to use.  I certainly know a great deal more now about PoE and can make more informed decisions, bring out the extension power lead and PoE injectors I guess lol.

 

Many thanks

Ian

View solution in original post

Message 10 of 10
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
  • 9 replies
  • 916 views
  • 0 kudos
  • 2 in conversation
Announcements