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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Many times I have been standing on a railway platform for several hours waiting for a train which is delayed. One thing I learned from these experiences is that honest announcements help save passengers from getting excessively frustrated. It is basic customer care.

Since becoming a Netgear customer with aDGND3300v2 and ReadyNAS Duo, I have found that this is an area where Netgear is miserably lacking. As mentioned earlier in the thread, DGND3300v2 owners have been waiting for months for a fix to a buggy firmware release and Netgear haven't even acknowledged that there is a problem.

I am pretty sure that most ReadyNAS owning Mac users would be reassured to know that a fix to this issue was at least in development.
Message 101 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

flamesong wrote:
I am pretty sure that most ReadyNAS owning Mac users would be reassured to know that a fix to this issue was at least in development.

First off, the Netgear unit responsible for the Router/Modem business is a totally different entity than the one responsible for the ReadyNAS line. Unfortunately shortcomings of the former tend to bleed over to the latter at least in the public view.
As to the part quoted, I'm not sure I really understand your problem. The software that is responsible for the Mac connectivity on the ReadyNAS is developed by a third party. This software already supports Lion, which btw is not a "fix" for a "bug" but an added feature instead, and is licensed by Netgear. So there's already proof for "a fix being in development". If you want to stir this storm in a water glass further, don't let me stop you. But with the ReadyNAS I'd say your chances to get working OS X Lion support are way better than with most if not all of the other vendors. And even if for some reason Netgear doesn't deliver an update as timely as I expect them to do, there are alternatives in the form of an add-on that could be provided easily.

-Stefan
Follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Google+ or visit my add-on web site
Message 102 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Hi Stefan.

I'm not sure I understand your response to flamesong.

AFP access to a ReadyNAS is not possible currently from 10.7 clients because the version of Netatalk used by current ReadyNAS firmware doesn't support the default AFP connection settings baked into 10.7. As things stand currently, anyone who relies on AFP access to a ReadyNAS box cannot upgrade to 10.7 when it comes available. This is a serious limitation. Whilst accepting that Netgear can do what it likes with regard to this problem, and its communications with its customers about this response, why do you see one of those customers observing that it would be helpful for Netgear to make some announcement about it as "stirring this storm in a water glass"?

Recently a host of software vendors have released statements about steps they are taking to prepare their products to be compatible with 10.7 - many have released code that is compatible with 10.7 ahead of its release. It think it is disappointing that Netgear has chosen to remain mute on this topic: I don't understand what is gained by not acknowledging the (well reported) problem. Further, I concur with flamesong that to do so would helpfully position them in the minds of their current and potential customers - particularly if (as you suggest) Netgear is best placed among the NAS vendors to provide a speedy fix to this problem.
Message 103 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

All legal testers of Mac OS X Lion are under a NDA and so NetGear probably would prefer not to risk inadvertently breaking the NDA in speaking about it. NetGear tends not to announce major updates before they hit beta testing, one reason being that unexpected delays can lead to disappointment and also that for obvious reasons they don't want to let their competitors know what they are doing and when they're doing it before absolutely necessary.

As 10.7 is not available yet the lack of support for Time Machine from Mac OS X Lion clients isn't an issue at this time. Being on the bleeding edge updating to a new OS ASAP does have its drawbacks. It's best to wait a little while for companies like NetGear to properly test updates that address compatibility issues against a production OS. Waiting also has the benefit that you shouldn't experience any of the major bugs that may be present in a major OS update.

Hopefully it won't be that long after Lion is released before there's an update. Personally I'll probably wait a while to update most of my machines.
Message 104 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

mdgm wrote:
It's best to wait a little while for companies like NetGear to properly test updates that address compatibility issues against a production OS. Waiting also has the benefit that you shouldn't experience any of the major bugs that may be present in a major OS update.

So now you are suggesting that Netgear being mute on this issue is actually a benefit to me... by making sure I cannot upgrade to 10.7. Well I suppose that is one way of looking at it... Hilarious in itself, but it misses the point rather. The comments flamesong made are not about requiring Netgear to release anything, just suggesting that people who use their equipment might get some value from them acknowledging whether or not they plan to. I really can't see why that's such a problematic thing to do in your world-view.
Message 105 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

They may well make comments about this at some point. I don't think they need to make a comment before releasing a public beta, but if they do I think it could come after a production Mac OS X Lion is released possibly as early as next week. It's pretty clear that over the years of ReadyNAS history NetGear does all the updates it reasonably can to NAS devices to keep them compatible with newer OSes, add new features etc. The current firmware for Sparc devices works with the very first ReadyNAS devices released several years ago.

WhoCares?'s comments make it pretty clear there isn't a hardware limitation so I see no reason why they wouldn't want to add Mac OS X Lion support to the Sparc devices.

You may well find that you use software, peripherals etc. that aren't updated for Mac OS X Lion support yet. It's not unreasonable for there to be some delay after a major OS update before support is added. Anyone using their computer for business (apart from IT work that requires testing/work on the latest and greatest OS) would want to wait a little while for issues not picked up by beta testers to be sorted out and stability of the OS to improve.

If you choose to run Lion now, you can still access files on the NAS over CIFS.
Message 106 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

mdgm wrote:
WhoCares?'s comments make it pretty clear there isn't a hardware limitation so I see no reason why they wouldn't want to add Mac OS X Lion support to the Sparc devices.


On that subject (and with apologies for dragging up something that was already pointed out as being off-topic) I thought it pertinent to point out that the NIC hardware isn't incompatible with IPv6 (as mentioned by someone earlier), that's just not possible. An ethernet frame carrying an IPv6 packet is identical to an ethernet frame carrying an IPv4 packet. It's all down to the NIC driver software and the kernel. If someone put in the effort to update those two you'd have the support. Don't blame it on the hardware, I've got decades old Sun SPARC kit here quite happily running IPv6...
Message 107 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

The logo on the front of my ReadyNAS Duo says, quite clearly, 'Netgear', this has been verified by an independent expert.

But I'm not an expert, which is one of the reasons why I'm returning to this forum and this thread in particular. It matters not to me which unit does what and how, that's a matter for Netgear management.

However, if the unit which deals with the ReadyNAS marque does not want to be tarred with the same brush as the folk who neglect the modems and routers, it is their responsibility not to behave ion the same manner.

Apple has released developer previews of OS X 10.7 over the past several months and responsible developers who want to keep their customers seamlessly up and running have been busy updating their software and releasing beta versions for testing for months. Apart from reading about it all over the place, I know this because I have been beta testing myself.

I am grateful for the posts from members who could understand my point and I'm somewhat mystified by the indignance from somebody who evidently is not as concerned that they cannot connect to their ReadyNAS Time Machine volume, as I am. Yes, I am aware that you have posted an add-on but when somebody adds the caveat, 'use at your own risk', I am not a cornucopia of confidence.
Message 108 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

flamesong wrote:

However, if the unit which deals with the ReadyNAS marque does not want to be tarred with the same brush as the folk who neglect the modems and routers, it is their responsibility not to behave ion the same manner.

Well, I think it's pretty clear from NetGear still providing firmware updates to long discontinued Infrant ReadyNAS products that they don't neglect their ReadyNAS products.
flamesong wrote:

Apple has released developer previews of OS X 10.7 over the past several months and responsible developers who want to keep their customers seamlessly up and running have been busy updating their software and releasing beta versions for testing for months. Apart from reading about it all over the place, I know this because I have been beta testing myself.

The 2.2 update to the 3rd party Netatalk project has received much testing from the Linux community. There's no need for NetGear to push out public betas addressing compatibility issues with a beta OS when the Linux community does a fine job addressing those issues themselves. It should be fairly easy for NetGear to begin pushing out public betas with Lion support after a production Lion is released. If your clients use their Macs for business you shouldn't encourage them to upgrade to Lion as soon as its released anyway.
flamesong wrote:

I am grateful for the posts from members who could understand my point and I'm somewhat mystified by the indignance from somebody who evidently is not as concerned that they cannot connect to their ReadyNAS Time Machine volume, as I am.

If you choose to run a beta Operating System you should not be surprised if you have compatibility issues and if an update addressing those issues is not pushed out till after the Operating System goes production. The ReadyNAS does much more than a piece of software you run on your Mac.
flamesong wrote:

Yes, I am aware that you have posted an add-on but when somebody adds the caveat, 'use at your own risk', I am not a cornucopia of confidence.

WhoCares? add-on was demonstrating what was possible. His add-on is obviously not supported by NetGear and though it should work fine should only be installed on non-production systems.
Message 109 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

I tried the WhoCares add-on, through the UI, but it said wrong hardware "Update file is not valid for this architecture."

I have a readynas pro pioneer - might it not work with what i have?
Message 110 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

The Pro Pioneer is an x86 ReadyNAS. The add-on is for Sparc ReadyNAS. x86 ReadyNAS already should have AFP support for Mac OS X Lion just not Time Machine support (WhoCares?'s addon doesn't address Time Machine support anyway).
Message 111 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

thanks mgdm - makes sense, as my AFP shares do work. so i should wait it out until they release a new update that supports time machine? too late to go back to snow leopard :-)
Message 112 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Yes, I'd wait for the update.
Message 113 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Looking forward to an update for both x86 and SPARC!
ReadyNAS Ultra 4 Plus 4TBx2 + 2TBx2 w/ APC Smart-UPS 750 w/ Webcard Teaming, ReadyNAS NV+ Backup Unit 2TBx4,HP ProCurve V1810 Switches, Mac Pro 8x3.0 24/SSD 240GB RAID 0+4 Drive 3TB RAID 0/AE/BT, MBP 2.8 Retina 16/1 TB SSD
Message 114 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Has been confirmed that an update is in the works for both x86 and Sparc?
Signature - Coming Soon!
Message 115 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

NetGear has neither confirmed nor denied an update happening. However as they are a customer of NetAFP, I believe it is reasonable to assume that NetGear would want to update the AFP support on both Sparc and x86 ReadyNAS. One would expect that they would be able to get some assistance (even if just answering of questions regarding how Netatalk is written to help NetGear know what it needs to backport) from NetAFP if necessary to make this possible.
Message 116 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Agreed. Certainly NETGEAR would want to have support for Time Machine under Lion, which should be shipping relatively soon. Time Machine has been an advertising angle for the ReadyNAS and I'm sure there's a desire to keep it intact (and ideally at launch). How important this is to the company or how long customers would find it reasonable not to have support is TBD.
ReadyNAS Ultra 4 Plus 4TBx2 + 2TBx2 w/ APC Smart-UPS 750 w/ Webcard Teaming, ReadyNAS NV+ Backup Unit 2TBx4,HP ProCurve V1810 Switches, Mac Pro 8x3.0 24/SSD 240GB RAID 0+4 Drive 3TB RAID 0/AE/BT, MBP 2.8 Retina 16/1 TB SSD
Message 117 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Found a workaround to enable (and disable) DHCAST128 in Lion, by default Apple disables support for the “DHCAST128″, which is commonly used by NAS boxes. This is because it is thought is it insufficiently secure. So all the Vendors must work with Apple for Lion compatibility.

To turn on “DHCAST128″ support please do the following on your Mac running Mac OS X 10.7 Lion:

1)  Launch /Applications/Utilities/Terminal and do:
sudo chmod o+w /Library/Preferences
Then:
defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.AppleShareClient afp_host_prefs_version -int 1
Now Quit from Terminal and restart your computer.

From Finder, select an AFP server, or use “Connect To…”.  This will cause the AFP Client to create the full preferences file

3)  Launch Terminal again and do:
sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.AppleShareClient afp_disabled_uams -array “Cleartxt Passwrd” “MS2.0″ “2-Way Randnum exchange”
Then:
sudo chmod o-w /Library/Preferences
Now Quit from Terminal and restart your computer.

Note:  To add a “DHCAST128″ to the disable list, use
sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.AppleShareClient afp_disabled_uams -array-add “DHCAST128″

This has been tested on my OS X Lion 10.7 GM Installation and works like a dream.
Message 118 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Does this make Time Machine work again or is this just for authenticated AFP access?
Message 119 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Time Machine on Lion has additional requirements which are addressed by Netatalk 2.2
Message 120 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

mdgm wrote:
Time Machine on Lion has additional requirements which are addressed by Netatalk 2.2


And we have no idea whether Netgear will support this on the Sparc ReadyNAS or not?
Signature - Coming Soon!
Message 121 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Until/Unless we see an update in a public beta we can't be sure of NetGear's intentions, but I think it's very likely that they will.
Message 122 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

maxervice wrote:
Found a workaround to enable (and disable) DHCAST128 in Lion, by default Apple disables support for the “DHCAST128″, which is commonly used by NAS boxes. This is because it is thought is it insufficiently secure. So all the Vendors must work with Apple for Lion compatibility.

To turn on “DHCAST128″ support please do the following on your Mac running Mac OS X 10.7 Lion:

1) Launch /Applications/Utilities/Terminal and do:
sudo chmod o+w /Library/Preferences
Then:
defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.AppleShareClient afp_host_prefs_version -int 1
Now Quit from Terminal and restart your computer.

From Finder, select an AFP server, or use “Connect To…”. This will cause the AFP Client to create the full preferences file

3) Launch Terminal again and do:
sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.AppleShareClient afp_disabled_uams -array “Cleartxt Passwrd” “MS2.0″ “2-Way Randnum exchange”
Then:
sudo chmod o-w /Library/Preferences
Now Quit from Terminal and restart your computer.

Note: To add a “DHCAST128″ to the disable list, use
sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.AppleShareClient afp_disabled_uams -array-add “DHCAST128″

This has been tested on my OS X Lion 10.7 GM Installation and works like a dream.


Unfortunately, this doesn't help with Time Machine, only authenticated access.
Message 123 of 162
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NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

Netatalk 2.2 is needed for Mac OS X Lion Time Machine support as has been mentioned several times in the thread.
Message 124 of 162
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Re: AFP Out Of Date In OS X Lion

what's best way to stay tuned or to lobby netgear to address the netatalk update?
Message 125 of 162