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Re: Backup not complete again

RN104Owner
Aspirant

Backup not complete again

I purchased my RN104 this week. It is a very nice NAS box for its price. It came with OS6.2 out of the box. I updated it to 6.22 then set it up with 3 - 4TB drives in raid5 and let it run over night building the array.

Yesterday morning it was going to take 30+ hours to finish building the array. So I started backing up the home media server, a Javelin S4 that has 3 - 4TB drives in raid5 with ~4.5TB of data. It has about 600 DVD iso files and each has 2 small files for a total of 1800+ files. I setup a backup job on the RN104 and got it running. I was pleasantly surprised to see the backup moving at 1TB/8hrs. I used NFS to setup the backup job since both boxes are Linux.

This morning when I checked, the backup was complete! Well not really. The RN104 showed about 1.2TB copied. I started the backup job again and it promptly ran through its sequence and pronounced the second backup complete without doing anything. So I removed the 1200+ small files and started the backup job again. It is now, again copying the iso files. I'll add back the smaller files later.

While the backup job is running I turned to google and found others having the same issue. OS6.2/6.22 set the NFS thread count to 8. I changed it to one and the web interface became slow to respond. Next I set the NFS thread count at 2 and the web interface seems "normal" again. For a dedicated home media server, what is a good number for NFS thread count?
Message 1 of 17
StephenB
Guru

Re: Backup not complete again

Did you analyze what was missing?

How have you ruled out the possibility that the problem is with the Javelin?
Message 2 of 17
RN104Owner
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

StephenB wrote:
Did you analyze what was missing?

Not extensively. The RN104 copied ~850 files, a mix of DVD iso files and the small data files, out of the 1800+ that were in the source folder. And it would not resume backup until I changed the source folder. I hope that by removing the small data files (which are easy to move around) the iso files will all get copied.
I have checksums turned on from yesterday morning. And today I turned on NFSv4, it was turned off by default.

StephenB wrote:
How have you ruled out the possibility that the problem is with the Javelin?

In the past I have moved about 3TBs from the PC to and from the Javelin without issue. So I rate that at a low possibility. The backup job is running again and has copied another 1TB since this morning, so it looks ok.
I spent the morning looking for NFS info and it appears the 8 thread count started when NFS came out. In general you need more threads with more users. So whether the issue is NFS thread count or not, I am getting the files copied.

Moving forward, what is needed to trigger the RN104 to do an incremental backup? Is changing 1 file enough?
Message 3 of 17
StephenB
Guru

Re: Backup not complete again

Well the backup will run on schedule even if no files change. Any new file, or file with a new size or date should be copied.

I'd edit the backup job and change from NFS to rsync once you get the initial files copied.
Message 4 of 17
vrspectre
Apprentice

Re: Backup not complete again

I ran into a similar problem. Netgear support told me that NFS isn't reliable if you have a large number of files in a folder and are using different file systems between the devices. They said that rsync or windows/nas (cifs) would work better in this situation.

What I ended up doing was letting the NFS backup job complete, and running a folder compare utility and manually copy over the missing files. Then you should be able to setup an rsync job that will keep things updated.
Message 5 of 17
RN104Owner
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

StephenB wrote:
Well the backup will run on schedule even if no files change. Any new file, or file with a new size or date should be copied.

I'd edit the backup job and change from NFS to rsync once you get the initial files copied.

The backup of the iso files completed in good order.
I copied the ~1200 small files back and started the frontend backup job again. It ran for a bit and completed. I checked the directory listings against each other and not all of the files copied over.
There are 606 *.metathumb files and 388 copied over.
There are 607 *.xml files and 431 copied over.
I switched the backup job to remote: Rsync Server. It ran quickly and did not change any results. I moved the metathumb out, ran the backup again, results did not change.
One of the files that did not copy was XX_2013.metathumb. So I copied and pasted it back with Win7 to add a file XX - Copy.metathumb to the source folder. The remote: Rsync Server backup job did not pickup the change and did not copy the new file. That is in addition to the other files it will not copy (see above). I added another file XXX_2008 - Copy.metathumb, the original file did copy to the backup folder. The new XXX_2008 - Copy.metathumb file was not copied
The remote: Rsync Server backup job has some blind spots. I deleted the *.metathumb and *.xml files from the RN104 and ran the remote: Rsync Server backup job again. It did not notice the files were missing from the backup folder.
Message 6 of 17
RN104Owner
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

update time.
When I switched the backup job to rsync, it removed the path. So when I tested the connection, it was good, but didn't move any files.

I can get the nfs to connect to my video source folder, but when I switch to rsync server (and restore the path) I get a cryptic:
Unable to connect to host.
Code:7077010011
I am using the same user name and password that was good with nfs. Please advise where I am going wrong.

Trying to connect with Windows/NAS I get the same as above with a 707010020 error.
Message 7 of 17
RN104Owner
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

update time again.
I finally was successful getting the remote: Window/NAS backup to connect. AND it did a complete backup without missing any files.
Originally I was following the instructions from: http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/23424/~/how-do-i-configure-the-remote-source-or-destination-for-a-job-on-my-readynas-os, that says:

8. In the Path field, enter the folder path.
If you select a Windows protocol, use a forward slash (/) to separate directories, for example:
/<share name>/<folder name>

Which does not work...

I searched and found this: http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=42226, which says:
agree documentation is very poor given it is a key feature, end result user is left to trial and error. I got this working for my PCs including 64bit windows 7:

host can be ip address or computer name
path should start without /
username / password should be a user on the PC in question with admin privilige. I didn't need to fiddle with the homegroup settings either as indicated elsewhere.

example:
host = 192.168.11.4
path = Users/PC/Documents/Paul/CV
user = johnsmith
password = example


Which worked!!!
Message 8 of 17
krgoodwin
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

I found your source path suggestion solved my inability to get the backup to execute. I was following the Netgear documentation (useless) and the youtube video by Mammoth Jerk titled "How to set a Backup with a Netgear ReadyNAS step by step guide". For the path source, he uses only the source folder share name but I would get "Access denied: invalid username or password. Code 7077010013" when I tested the connection. I don't use a administrator password on my computer so I thought that might be the problem although Mammoth Jerk indicated it wouldn't be a problem as long as the Network Access and Sharing password settings were correct. Since some users indicated that the backup would execute even though the "test connection" failed, I attempted to run the backup job but it failed saying "source cannot be mounted on the system". Changing the source path using your suggestion resulted in a successful test connection (the entire Windows path without the leading / as you suggested) and the backup job would successfully complete. I have one last problem however - nothing was backed up to the destination share folder. The backup job completes in less than two seconds. Since I've already spent 3 days attempting to get this to work, I guess I still need to attempt all permutations and combinations (read as trial and error). But a BIG thanks for getting me one further step down this painful path. Ken Goodwin, Houston.
Message 9 of 17
krgoodwin
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

I may have a problem with your source folder path statement. Using an extensive path name for the source folder like Users/Myname/SourceFolder does get the Test Connection to pass but after a few days I find that I can get the same result without even having to specify a SourceFolder. When I run my backup job with an extensive path, the backup successfully executes but produces no output. It works exactly the same if I specify a non-existent SourceFolder; in fact, exactly the same without any SourceFolder being delineated at all! In the YouTube video by Mammouth Jerk, "How to set a Backup with a Netgear ReadyNAS step by step" he uses only the Share Folder name in the path statement, e.g., SourceFolder. When I attempt this, the Test Connection results in a Username or Password fail and the Backup job can't mount the source folder when executed. The ReadyNAS OS 6.2 manual states one should use the Browse/pull-down menu to select the source folder but for the OS 6.2.2 remote source settings, the pull-down menu is greyed out so the only way I can specify a source is to type it in. The pull-down menu for the local destination shares folder works as advertised. So I have been unable to get a Backup job to correctly execute (no output in the Destination folder) although I have no trouble using the ReadyCLOUD app interface to create a successful backup job. The only problem with the ReadyCLOUD app interface is that one can't specify a source folder below Users/Myname directory level (the My Documents / DOCUMENTS directory level). Currently I am refusing to completely reorganize my computer's file organizational structure having been at it since the days of DOS and having gotten use to it!!
Message 10 of 17
StephenB
Guru

Re: Backup not complete again

Using the example above (/Users/PC/Documents/Paul/CV) - maybe try sharing the CV folder (full access to everyone) on the PC, and then simply use /CV as the path.

What is the actual path you are trying to back up?
Message 11 of 17
krgoodwin
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

That is exactly what I have, the folder is shared (everybody full control) and when I put in just the share name the Test Connection fails (invalid username and/or password) and the backup job fails (unable to mount source). The full windows path is c:\users\myaccount\sourcefolder or network share path \\HP-H9-1215T\sourcefolder. When I use Users\myaccount\sourcefolder the Test Connection passes and the backup job executes but no output. I find it works the same if I omit the sourcefolder from the path (Users\myaccount) so obviously it isn't finding the source folder but yet the backup job executes without a whimper. I'm lost as so is Netgear so far. They asked for my logs today but since the job executes, not sure what one is going to see in a successful execution. Ken Goodwin, Houston
Message 12 of 17
StephenB
Guru

Re: Backup not complete again

You should be using "sourcefolder" as the path. Try using your windows username and password on the backup job.
Message 13 of 17
krgoodwin
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

I agree with your suggested procedure but therein lies the problem, I don't use an administrator password. When I follow your (and mine) steps, I get a Username and/or password failure on the Test Connection. When I execute the backup - failure to mount source error. I was able to get around the Test Connection failure by using a full path name (Users\Myaccount\SourceFolder) but it appears as if the backup job doesn't find nor use a source yet executes without a whimper. According to the experts if the Control Panel --> Network and Sharing Center --> Advanced Sharing Settings is set to Off for Password Protected Sharing one should be able to do this without a password. I am of the opinion that Netgear has a bug in this area. I have no problems creating and executing a backup job from the ReadyCLOUD app interface but it won't work from the Admin page interface (the word FrontView no longer exists in the Netgear vernacular). I will try creating the same backup job on my tablet that does have an Administrator password but after spending 20 hours trying to get this to work, I need a break.
Message 14 of 17
StephenB
Guru

Re: Backup not complete again

You are saying that "myaccount" on the PC has no password? It does have a username, all windows accounts do. It might also help to make sure that the Windows workgroup on the NAS matches the PC.

Also, to enable full access to data in the share, you need to ensure that the file permissions in Windows are also set properly. Network access is only part of it. Windows always applies the most restrictive permissions. So both need to be set to full everyone access.
Message 15 of 17
krgoodwin
Aspirant

Re: Backup not complete again

You are saying that "myaccount" on the PC has no password? It does have a username, all windows accounts do. It might also help to make sure that the Windows workgroup on the NAS matches the PC.

Well you will have to tell me where it is since I've never created one nor have never been asked for it in over four years with this computer (except for maybe now). NETPLWIZ will take me to the User Accounts where the Reset Password for the administrator account (myname) is greyed out indicating to me that no password exists. The Credential Manager, as expected, shows the existence of passwords for all my other computers but not the desktop in question. I have attempted to use numerous usernames and passwords in the ReadyNAS backup job creation (I do have a self-administrated high security password scheme that I would have used if I ever created one for this computer) but never this provided a solution. If the ReadyCLOUD app can do a backup never asking for a password, it begs the question why the Admin interface can't do one. Tell me where my password might exist. I have an encrypted file that is over ten pages in length where I have recorded every password I have ever created in the last 20 years. I kind of remember that when one installs Windows, the trick was to do a CR when it asked to establish an Administrator password.

I've checked the Workgroups and they match as expected. (Windows default WORKGROUP)

Also, to enable full access to data in the share, you need to ensure that the file permissions in Windows are also set properly. Network access is only part of it. Windows always applies the most restrictive permissions. So both need to be set to full everyone access.

I've been thru the advanced sharing folder steps for the Sourcefolder. My source of what seems to work is the YouTube video by Mammouth Jerk (love that name) entitled How to set a Backup with a Netgear ReadyNAS step by step. The tutorial is using a slightly older version of the ReadyNAS OS but generally the 30 minute video looks like the most viable knowledge source. The Netgear documentation (ReadyNAS OS 6.2 Software Manual is out of date). It indicates that one should be able to use the pull-down menu to select the source but it is greyed out when I am creating the backup job. The destination pull-down menu selection works but I would speculate that maybe because the source is remote, the source selection can't be accessed by the backup job creation process? (Really doesn't make much sense does it?)

Again my next step will be to try to create a backup job on my Windows 8 tablet which does have an Administrator password and see if I can get the backup job creation to execute in that environment. And maybe for argument purposes, I will then try it on my Windows 7 laptop which also has an administrator password. But since I've lost a fast bootup, maybe I should raise the flag and create an Administrator password and see if that solves the problem. One can use the User Accounts settings to avoid having to type a password during the bootup but after wasting two days of my life with this problem, I've gotten stubborn.
Message 16 of 17
StephenB
Guru

Re: Backup not complete again

What version of Windows? Normally you are required to create a user name as part of the windows setup when you first turn on the PC. Usually there is a password as well - though there are ways to turn that off.

The windows username is what you called "myaccount".

You can confirm this by clicking control-alt-delete on the windows system, and (if needed) select "start task manager". Then click on the users tab on the far right. That will show you your windows user name.

Use that name (not administrator) as credential for the Windows share in the NAS backup job. If there is no password, then leave that entry blank.
Message 17 of 17
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