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Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
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2011-08-12
06:23 PM
2011-08-12
06:23 PM
Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
We have a ReadyNAS Pro6 (RAIDiator-x86 4.2.17)
I've changed the RAID mode of this unit to Flex-RAID mode 0 as we want it to hold 6 separate volumes. I've successfully added 4 HDDs, and each is their own volume. (FWIW, We have another Pro6 configured as X-RAID-2 with 6 3 TB HDDs, dual redundancy but this unit is serving a different role.)
Back to the unit in question...
There are five 3 TB drives installed:
Model: Hitachi HDS723030ALA640
Serial: MK0331YHGA7LYA
Firmware: MKAOA580
When I add the 5th drive and go to VOLUMES-->VOLUME SETTINGS...
I see tabs across the top for:
"Volume C" "Volume D" "Volume E" "Volume F" "USB"
There is no longer a tab for add new volume (like there used to be) so I can't add HDD5 as "Volume G"
When I go to STATUS-->HEALTH it shows:
Device Description Status
Disk 1 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 39 C / 102 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 2 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 42 C / 107 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 3 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 40 C / 104 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 4 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 39 C / 102 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 5 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 40 C / 104 F , Write-cache ON OK
So the unit can see the drive.
Can't someone point me in the right direction?
Ed
A bit more info:
===========================================================================================================================
As mentioned above, we're using one ReadNAS Pro6 in dual redunancy mode (6 x 1 TB drives) for our live data. The second Pro6, the one we're struggling with, will store backups of the live data.
As we do now, we want to back up our live files 6 times a week (Sunday-Friday) on a rolling basis. (Sunday to drive 1, Monday to drive 2..... Friday to Drive 6) If there isn't room on a drive, the oldest backup is deleted. In this way, we can go back many days back one day at a time. The reason we want to put the backups on individual drives is so that should a drive become corrupted (remember the backup NAS is has no redundancy), the failure of that drive won't effect any others. That is if we go to Thursday's backup (on HDD-5) and the drive is toast, we just go to Wednesday's (on HDD-5) and we get the similar results, just a day older (This is ok for our use). So.... That's why we want 6 Volumes.
After more research, I found a thread or two that alludes to a 4 volume limit but I haven't found this in any Netgear documentation as such. Any truth to this? If so, why? Seems like there should be maybe a max of 4 volumes per HDD but in a rack holding 6?
I've changed the RAID mode of this unit to Flex-RAID mode 0 as we want it to hold 6 separate volumes. I've successfully added 4 HDDs, and each is their own volume. (FWIW, We have another Pro6 configured as X-RAID-2 with 6 3 TB HDDs, dual redundancy but this unit is serving a different role.)
Back to the unit in question...
There are five 3 TB drives installed:
Model: Hitachi HDS723030ALA640
Serial: MK0331YHGA7LYA
Firmware: MKAOA580
When I add the 5th drive and go to VOLUMES-->VOLUME SETTINGS...
I see tabs across the top for:
"Volume C" "Volume D" "Volume E" "Volume F" "USB"
There is no longer a tab for add new volume (like there used to be) so I can't add HDD5 as "Volume G"
When I go to STATUS-->HEALTH it shows:
Device Description Status
Disk 1 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 39 C / 102 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 2 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 42 C / 107 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 3 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 40 C / 104 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 4 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 39 C / 102 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 5 Hitachi HDS723030ALA640 2794 GB , 40 C / 104 F , Write-cache ON OK
So the unit can see the drive.
Can't someone point me in the right direction?
Ed
A bit more info:
===========================================================================================================================
As mentioned above, we're using one ReadNAS Pro6 in dual redunancy mode (6 x 1 TB drives) for our live data. The second Pro6, the one we're struggling with, will store backups of the live data.
As we do now, we want to back up our live files 6 times a week (Sunday-Friday) on a rolling basis. (Sunday to drive 1, Monday to drive 2..... Friday to Drive 6) If there isn't room on a drive, the oldest backup is deleted. In this way, we can go back many days back one day at a time. The reason we want to put the backups on individual drives is so that should a drive become corrupted (remember the backup NAS is has no redundancy), the failure of that drive won't effect any others. That is if we go to Thursday's backup (on HDD-5) and the drive is toast, we just go to Wednesday's (on HDD-5) and we get the similar results, just a day older (This is ok for our use). So.... That's why we want 6 Volumes.
After more research, I found a thread or two that alludes to a 4 volume limit but I haven't found this in any Netgear documentation as such. Any truth to this? If so, why? Seems like there should be maybe a max of 4 volumes per HDD but in a rack holding 6?
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2011-08-13
03:23 AM
2011-08-13
03:23 AM
Re: Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
yup volumes are definitely limited to 4 in flex-raid mode.
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2011-08-13
08:41 AM
2011-08-13
08:41 AM
Re: Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
Thanks? beisser. I don't suppose there's any reasonable way around this limit eh? This really puts a wrinkle in our plans to use the unit. Any plans at NetGear to enable JBOD mode?
- Ed
- Ed
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2011-08-14
04:00 AM
2011-08-14
04:00 AM
Re: Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
why dont you just use 6 shares on a x-raid2 dual redundancy volume?
none of your backups will be affected unless at least 3 drives die at the same time.
there is no good reason to use seperate drives for this (and it does not increase data-security at all).
none of your backups will be affected unless at least 3 drives die at the same time.
there is no good reason to use seperate drives for this (and it does not increase data-security at all).
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2011-08-14
09:57 AM
2011-08-14
09:57 AM
Re: Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
beisser,
Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
I think you’re ending comment may be representative of NetGear belief system and why they (currently) don’t support JBOD in this unit.
First, I think most posts/folks in this forum have done a great job distinguishing between “data availability” and “data backup.” In fact we are using a Pro6 in dual redundancy mode to achieve our “data availability” goals.
However, when it comes to true backup, there are a number of failure scenarios that we’re planning on dealing with. Naturally, to keep things reasonable from operational and cost perspectives, we’re balancing event likelihood severity. We’re (hopefully) addressing everything from total loss of the site (via remote storage) to loss/ error / corruption of an individual file. Clearly, for these situations backup is the answer.
For backup, one aspect often overlooked is time: Lets say Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, a file is fine. For some reason something happens Thursday to the file. Call it data corruption… Someone or some process incorrectly deletes information from a spreadsheet. Then Monday someone notices the error. In this scenario, our first tier of protection “data availability” wouldn’t help. Like clock work, the ever reliable Pro6 array has accepted and stored (redundantly!) the now maligned file. Clearly this is problem needs to be address a data backup/recovery solution.
And there’s the rub. If the data was merely backed up on a daily basis, the “Thursday backup” (containing the maligned file) would overwrite the good file backed up the day before. To recover from these “we found the problem days after a loss” scenarios, a series of backups over time is needed… And that takes VOLUME.
Our solution is a second Pro6 configured to provide 18 TB of (non-redundant) storage. In the event we need to get “Wednesday’s version” of the file we can go back to Wednesday’s backup.” Could we do this on one giant RAID drive? Yes, BUT should any drive fail, we have 18 TB of trash.
The reason we want 6 independent drives, a JBOD, is to give us our 18 TB in a configuration where a single failed drive doesn’t bring us to our knees. If “Wednesday’s back” HDD is bad, we can likely fall back to Tuesday’s or earlier and get what we’re looking for.
Given the current limit of 4 supported volumes, the solution we adopted was to configure disks 1&2 as a volume, 3 as a volume, 4&5 as a volume and 6 as a volume. Close to what were looking for but we’d still like to have them all independent. We’re planning on a third Pro6 in a remote location to mirror the 18 TB units backups.
Again, I appreciate you considering our situation. If you feel there’s a better way to meet our goals I’m all ears!
If my perspective useful and plan reasonable, I’d appreciate you taking it to product marketing and having them consider JBOD ops for your box.
- Ed
Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
I think you’re ending comment may be representative of NetGear belief system and why they (currently) don’t support JBOD in this unit.
First, I think most posts/folks in this forum have done a great job distinguishing between “data availability” and “data backup.” In fact we are using a Pro6 in dual redundancy mode to achieve our “data availability” goals.
However, when it comes to true backup, there are a number of failure scenarios that we’re planning on dealing with. Naturally, to keep things reasonable from operational and cost perspectives, we’re balancing event likelihood severity. We’re (hopefully) addressing everything from total loss of the site (via remote storage) to loss/ error / corruption of an individual file. Clearly, for these situations backup is the answer.
For backup, one aspect often overlooked is time: Lets say Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, a file is fine. For some reason something happens Thursday to the file. Call it data corruption… Someone or some process incorrectly deletes information from a spreadsheet. Then Monday someone notices the error. In this scenario, our first tier of protection “data availability” wouldn’t help. Like clock work, the ever reliable Pro6 array has accepted and stored (redundantly!) the now maligned file. Clearly this is problem needs to be address a data backup/recovery solution.
And there’s the rub. If the data was merely backed up on a daily basis, the “Thursday backup” (containing the maligned file) would overwrite the good file backed up the day before. To recover from these “we found the problem days after a loss” scenarios, a series of backups over time is needed… And that takes VOLUME.
Our solution is a second Pro6 configured to provide 18 TB of (non-redundant) storage. In the event we need to get “Wednesday’s version” of the file we can go back to Wednesday’s backup.” Could we do this on one giant RAID drive? Yes, BUT should any drive fail, we have 18 TB of trash.
The reason we want 6 independent drives, a JBOD, is to give us our 18 TB in a configuration where a single failed drive doesn’t bring us to our knees. If “Wednesday’s back” HDD is bad, we can likely fall back to Tuesday’s or earlier and get what we’re looking for.
Given the current limit of 4 supported volumes, the solution we adopted was to configure disks 1&2 as a volume, 3 as a volume, 4&5 as a volume and 6 as a volume. Close to what were looking for but we’d still like to have them all independent. We’re planning on a third Pro6 in a remote location to mirror the 18 TB units backups.
Again, I appreciate you considering our situation. If you feel there’s a better way to meet our goals I’m all ears!
If my perspective useful and plan reasonable, I’d appreciate you taking it to product marketing and having them consider JBOD ops for your box.
- Ed
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2011-08-14
11:30 AM
2011-08-14
11:30 AM
Re: Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
Why not implement an incremental backup strategy that maintains multiple file versions?
Would seem simpler, more space efficient, allow a single volume and the leveraging of RAID based redundancy
Would seem simpler, more space efficient, allow a single volume and the leveraging of RAID based redundancy
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2011-08-14
03:50 PM
2011-08-14
03:50 PM
Re: Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
Hi sphardy,
When I said I was all ears... I wasn't expecting your picture! LOL!
We, for better and worse, are on Win Server 2008 R2. We've considered incremental backups as well. You seem to run linux on your servers. Do you have backup SW you prefer?
- Ed
When I said I was all ears... I wasn't expecting your picture! LOL!
We, for better and worse, are on Win Server 2008 R2. We've considered incremental backups as well. You seem to run linux on your servers. Do you have backup SW you prefer?
- Ed
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2011-08-14
11:50 PM
2011-08-14
11:50 PM
Re: Can't add a fifth volume to Pro6
Maybe take a look here: viewforum.php?f=121
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