HELP. RN Pro Pioneer Edition) Not turning on, but...

[winger13]

Last night, the NAS restarted itself (within 1 minute) after I shut it down for the night. This has happened before maybe just a handful of times. The solutions in the past as been to use turn switch in the rear of the unit to the 'OFF' position once the NAS powers itself down. The next morning (or next time I want to turn power on the NAS), I simply flip the switch in the back of the NAS to the 'ON' position.

This morning, when I flip the switch in the back of the NAS to the 'ON' position, nothing. I press the power button in the front on the NAS, still nothing. I try sending a WOL packet (which is normally what we do to turn on the device), still nothing. After about 10 minutes, wholla, NAS decides to power itself on.

Two things to mention:
1) The only other time this happened was two days ago.
2) Normally, I turn off the NAS prior to going to sleep in the evening by holding the power button at the front of the NAS for a couple of seconds, and when the confirmation question comes up (asking whether I want to shutdown the unit), I press the button once more. The next time I want to power on the NAS (sometimes it could be days later), I simply send a WOL packet.

[fastfwd]

Bad power supply. You can replace it for $40: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151089
And you'll also need a $7 ATX power-supply extension cable: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200121

[winger13]

Hi FastFwd. I have a couple of questions.
1. What specific symptom(s) I am experiencing makes you believe it is a power supply issue?
2. Wouldn't a power supply issue mean that power supplied to the unit would be erratic or not working at all? However, the power seems fine, well, at least when it is on.
3. Would this be covered by Netgear warranty? I powered the unit on right around Jan 1st, 2010.

Thanks much for the detailed parts listing, BTW. Very helpful of you.

[mdgm-ntgr]

3. The warranty is from the date of purchase not power on. The warranty on the Pioneer is three years. If you registered the unit and login to my.netgear.com what is the warranty expiry date?

[fastfwd]

winger13 wrote:
1. What specific symptom(s) I am experiencing makes you believe it is a power supply issue?

The ten-minute power-up delay is a common symptom of bad electrolytic capacitors in the power supply.

winger13 wrote:
2. Wouldn't a power supply issue mean that power supplied to the unit would be erratic or not working at all?

Not necessarily. When it's first switched on, the power supply waits for its internal voltages to stabilize before turning on its outputs. If a component in the circuit responsible for that delay is faulty, you could have the symptom you've described but still have perfectly good power when the outputs eventually do turn on.

However... You have a relatively benign issue now, but if more capacitors fail in other areas of the power supply circuitry, the power supply might stop working altogether. If that happens while the NAS is running, it could cause corruption of the data on your disks. And even the best UPS wouldn't protect you at that point, of course, since the problem would be between the UPS and the drives.

You should consider yourself lucky that you saw this symptom, as it is a warning of impending failure -- perhaps more serious failure -- elsewhere in the supply.

I can certainly understand that you might be reluctant to purchase another power supply without more evidence that your supply is failing. Fortunately, failing electrolytic caps usually show visual indications of the failure, so if you're mechanically inclined, you could remove your power supply from the NAS, take it apart, and inspect the capacitors to see whether any have burst or are bulging or leaking.

Power supplies can hold dangerously high voltages for some time even after they are turned off and removed from the mains power, so to be safe you should unplug the AC cord from the power supply and let it sit for a while -- overnight would be great -- before opening it up to look for failing capacitors. Searching the web for "capacitor plague" or "bulging cap" should bring up plenty of images so you know what to look for.

Or you could just buy a new power supply -- it wouldn't be a terrible idea to have a spare anyway -- and pop it in to see whether that fixes the problem.

[winger13]

MDGM - My warranty was up Jan 19, 2013 (3 yr warranty)

FastFwd - I am unsure how familiar you are with this ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer unit itself, but am wondering whether you know if it is pretty straight forward removing the Power Supply assemble or have instructions. I know some PS's are harder to get to than others (I've played around with a handful of desktop computers over the years - just tinkering). The screws and nuts on this RNPP unit seem pretty solidly tightened throughout and I would hate to strip any screws heads just to find out later I tried loosening the wrong screw(s). And, I do not mind mind ordering the part.

BTW, does it sound conceivable parts like this fail so fast? I do not have my NAS on 24x7, actually maybe 12 hrs/day at the most, and there are weeks where I do not even turn the unit on. Granted, it has been about 4 yrs 3 months since I first turned on the unit.

[fastfwd]

winger13 wrote:
FastFwd - I am unsure if you are familiar w/ this ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer unit, but am wondering whether you know if it is pretty straight forward removing the Power Supply assemble or have instructions. The screws and nuts on this unit seem pretty solidly tightened throughout and I would hate to strip any screws heads just to find out later I tried loosening the wrong screw(s).

I've removed the power supply from my Pro Pioneer; it was a while ago, but I don't remember it being particularly difficult. I think you might have to remove both side panels first (and maybe the top panel? I forget, but it should be obvious once you're in there) in order to remove the back panel. And the case fan is mounted to that back panel, so you'll have to unplug it from the motherboard in order to remove the panel.

I also just remembered that the AC cord doesn't plug directly into the power supply; it goes to a switch panel on the back of the NAS, and then three wires from the power supply connect to the panel with push-on spade connectors. So you'll have to disconnect those wires at the switch in order to remove the power supply.

I think I'm making this sound more complicated than it actually is. Just go slowly, keep track of which screws go where, and if necessary take cellphone photos of connectors for reference before you unplug them.

And while you're in there, blow all the accumulated dust out of the fans and heatsinks with compressed air, or maybe with a small vacuum cleaner. Hold the fan blades to keep them from turning while you do it, though; spinning them really fast will damage their bearings.

winger13 wrote:
BTW, does it sound conceivable parts like this fail so fast?

It's early, but not at all inconceivable. There was a huge problem about ten years ago when the market was flooded with millions and millions of defective capacitors -- the web search for "capacitor plague" that I recommended earlier will tell you all about it -- and they failed very soon after being put into service. I doubt that your power supply contains any of those caps, but even caps from reputable sources have a finite life, and some just fail earlier than others.

[winger13]

Ordering PS and ext cable now. Thanks alot for the assistance, FastFwd.

In the meantime, I have to leave the NAS running 24x7 at least for next couple of days because we are working on some projects requiring access to the NAS. Should be able to attempt the PS changeout by Friday or Saturday. Crossing my fingers that the PS and NAS holds up until then! I did take a full backup last night, just in case.

QUESTION: Would you advise ordering two PS's, one extra for the next time this fails in another 4-5 yrs and no replacement PS can be found at that point, well at least for a reasonable price (about $40)? I mean, honestly I spent good $$$ on this NAS unit and hope it lasts at least another 10-15 years (like my 7 year old Dell laptop still running strong), especially since it is not on 24x7.

[StephenB]

winger13 wrote:
QUESTION: Would you advise ordering two PS's, one extra for the next time this fails in another 4-5 yrs and no replacement PS can be found at that point, well at least for a reasonable price (about $40)?...

There's no harm in it. You could also just keep an eye on PC technology - if SFX power supplies start being replaced with something else, that is a clue that you should stock up.

[Sandshark]

QUESTION: Would you advise ordering two PS's, one extra for the next time this fails in another 4-5 yrs and no replacement PS can be found at that point, well at least for a reasonable price (about $40)? I mean, honestly I spent good $$$ on this NAS unit and hope it lasts at least another 10-15 years (like my 7 year old Dell laptop still running strong), especially since it is not on 24x7.

I did, though I have two Pro's. That was the only 250 watt SFX supply I could find, and it's not available in a commercially packaged version.

Replacing the supply is pretty easy: Remove sides and top cover. Remove system fan panel. Unplug all connectors. Remove plastic channel that holds 24-pin cable in place. Remove screws at power supply and switch. Work supply out. Remove external power connector from internal (wires do pull off, but mine took a lot of wiggling and pulling). I think I may have removed the memory to make it easier to remove and install the 24-pin connector, too.

You can try the supply before actually installing it. In fact, you can do that with just about any ATX supply to verify power is the problem (though I agree it sounds like that's it).

Installing is mostly the reverse of removal, except you need to add the 24-pin extender and the plastic channel will no longer fit. I cut short the supply hard drive wires and installed the right-angle Molex connectors from the old supply to keep the air flow unrestricted and just to look cleaner, but you don't have to. I also cut off the "ears" of the extender so it would lie flat between the motherboard and side, and taped it down with double-sticky foam tape.

[winger13]

Thanks guys for all the input. The depth of information and helpfulness of members in this forum is one huge reason I settled with a ReadyNAS device (vs. competitor's) back in 2009/2010. I know when warranty goes away or even for those small questions when warranty is still in effect, it is fellow users who often have valuable info, not the call center(s).
Just an update – I ordered the PS a few hrs ago from NewEgg and already received a shipping confirmation email, and I may get it as early as tomorrow since I used my ShopRunner account to order!

Questions:

1) I just noticed this PS I just ordered is rated at 300 watts. I believe this only means that it can deliver up to 300 watts if needed. The last I checked, my RNPP unit uses around 40-60 watts of power (with 4 1TB’s). Should I expect no change with power consumption with the new PS?

2) I would like some perspective from the ‘experts’ here. I now see that the PS is failing after only aftter 4 years of relatively light usage. I was also just in process of preparing to expand my storage capacity (at 80%) (that is another thread I started) when this PS issue came up.

Realistically, is it reasonable to for me to expect that this RNPP unit should still be operational say 10 years down the road without any major issues? I already have it for 4yrs or use + 10 years = approx. 15 years. This unit is for home use and mainly for family documents, pics and videos. Again, I normally have it running approx. 12 hrs/day , avg maybe 5 days/week. Some weeks, it is totally off.

This question is coming from a person who still have two Dell laptops 6-7 years old b/c they still do basic things like browsing the internet.

[StephenB]

The NAS is a specialized file server, with most of the circuitry (PC system board, fans, power supplies) being used in other PCs.

15 years is possible, but it is a very long time for a PC.

[Sandshark]

1) I just noticed this PS I just ordered is rated at 300 watts. I believe this only means that it can deliver up to 300 watts if needed. The last I checked, my RNPP unit uses around 40-60 watts of power (with 4 1TB’s). Should I expect no change with power consumption with the new PS?

Consumption should remain the same since it's the same supply except for the cabling. The only reason it likely needs that big a supply is for spinning up 6 drives. Newer drives are getting better in that resect, even as capacity gets larger.

BTW, note in my message above about supply rating was supposed to say only one >250W I've found. As you stated, it's 300W.

[winger13]

Great news.

I just completed the PS replacement and it seems to work for a couple of power cycle tests (e.g. no powering on by itself after shutting down, powers on immediately when I ask it to). I will try more this week and report back.

Thanks ALL !

[mikenaspro]

Hi
I have exactly the same symptoms and problem with my NAS so I also want to change the PSU
Unfortunately the SeaSonic PSU is not available in the UK

I wondered if another SFX PSU would fit , I have looked at some online but none of them seem to have the protruding fan
Would another SFX fit and would the fan line up with the hole ? And would the output cables be in the same position etc

Any suggestions welcome !

many thanks

Mike

[mikenaspro]

Hi
well I contacted Netgear and they are unable to sell me a new PSU or offer any sort of repair but told me to buy a whole new chassis !
Considering the unit is 4 years old that is a major expense and seems a rip off
So I dismantled the PSU found a bulging capacitor and replaced it. It all seems to be working ok now except I can't switch the unit off or reboot using the web page, but I suspect this is another problem and not related as it was happening previously
Mike

[Sandshark]

You should get one 300W or better. Most are 250 or less. In another thread, somebody asked about a 300W Silverstone. I checked out the specs, and it appears it should work. Though the fan will not protrude, it should line up. But, it will need a little longer 24-pin extension and some additional work on the 4-pin Molex connectors, since it only has 2 and the NAS needs 3, but it has SATA and floppy cables that could be converted.

I have since found that Silverstone also makes a 450W supply that has the same form factor and cable configuration.

If somebody does successfully get one of these to work, please add that information since the Seasonic appears to be difficult to acquire for those outside North America.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/wheretobuy_all.php?area=en

[brb1800]

I had the problem recently in both of my RN Pro Pioneer Business - both 5 minutes delay before turning on using the power button. From the browser interface when I powered off and then immediately turn back on.

I replaced both PSU (with extension cable) and that solved the problem. I hope that the replacement Seasonic PSU's have a long life. The two NAS are going strong.

[interpolator]

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@Sandshark wrote:


Replacing the supply is pretty easy: Remove sides and top cover. Remove system fan panel. Unplug all connectors. Remove plastic channel that holds 24-pin cable in place. Remove screws at power supply and switch. Work supply out. Remove external power connector from internal (wires do pull off, but mine took a lot of wiggling and pulling). I think I may have removed the memory to make it easier to remove and install the 24-pin connector, too. I cut short the supply hard drive wires and installed the right-angle Molex connectors from the old supply to keep the air flow unrestricted and just to look cleaner, but you don't have to. I also cut off the "ears" of the extender so it would lie flat between the motherboard and side, and taped it down with double-sticky foam tape.

---

Thanks for the great description for the Readynas Pro power supply replacement.  How were you able to disconnect the power supply cable from the molex right angle connector and afix the old molex connector to the new power supply cable?

[Sandshark]

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@interpolator wrote:

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Thanks for the great description for the Readynas Pro power supply replacement.  How were you able to disconnect the power supply cable from the molex right angle connector and afix the old molex connector to the new power supply cable?

---

On mine, the right-angle Molex connectors were just push-on.  They have a cap that covers the back that you have to remove first.  They may have made a change somewhere along the way to make re-using the old ones harder.  But you can get those type connectors on eBay, too.

[adamroutier]

Hi all

I am also having this same issue. I turned mine off when going on holiday for a couple of weeks and now it will not turn on at all.

I am not familur with which power supply i should order. Would this be the correct one?

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=253&area=en

Thanks in advance

Thanks

Adam

[StephenB]

That one might fit, but the original supply was a Seasonic SS-300SFD.  Connectors are a bit different (not sure if Netgear custom-ordered or if the supply I/O changed with the times).  You'll want a short 24-pin extender and an SATA->4  pin molex adapter if you go with the current Seasonic.  Both are readily available and inexpensive.

[adamroutier]

Hi StephenB

Thanks for yous help. I have found the Seasonic on amazon Uk.

Could you do me a favour and post links to the 24-pin extender and the SATA 4 pin molex adapter. Im struggling with these...

Thanks in advance

Adam

[StephenB]

Perhaps 

two of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-inch-Power-Cable-Adapter/dp/B004GSH9KQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=14519...

one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-com-2-01-Power-Extension-Cable/dp/B000FL60AI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid...

[Sandshark]

I got the extender on eBay and actually moved the Molex connectors from the old supply to the new instead of using adapters.  It made the installation "cleaner" -- less excess cable.