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Re: Need to add capacity to full RN104 consisting of 2 JBOD volumes.
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Searched around and couldn't quite find a definitive answer (also saw a lot of people say this too). Here's my setup and what I'm wanting to do.
Current:
2x3TB (Bays 1 and 2) in 1st JBOD Volume (Label: Primary)
2x2TB (Bays 3 and 4) in 2nd JBOD Volume (Label: Replicated)
Desired
1x10TB in (Bay 1) 2nd JBOD Volume (Label: New) that contains all the "Primary" volume data.
1x3TB in (Bay 2) 1st JBOD Volume (Label: Extra)
2x2TB in (Bays 3 and 4) 3rd JBOD Volume (Label: Replicated)
The key reason for this is 1) I had no idea if I lost 1 drive in a multi-disk JBOD volume I'd lose all data on that volume! and 2) I'm running short on space in the 6TB volume.
What I'm hoping to do is temporarily remove the 2x2TB 2 Disk JBOD (Replicated) Volume, put in the 10TB, move all the data from the 2 disk 6TB (Primary) volume onto it. Delete the original volume. Remove one of the 3TB drives. Leave 1 in there and create a 3rd JBOD (single disk) volume.
How can I remove the Replicated volume temporarily to give me a free drive bays such that I can insert the 10TB and create a new (not expand) volume. Then obviously just copy all the data from the "Primary" into "New". Destroy the "Primary" volume so I can remove the disks so I can reinstall the (untouched) "Replicated" volume?
What I THINK I'm getting from other posts is I can turn off the NAS. Remove both drives that make up "Replicated", put the new 10TB into Bay 3 for the moment, do the new volume and transfer piece, power the NAS off again, reposition the 10TB into Bay 1, one of the 3TB's from the now broken up "Primary" in Bay 2 and restore "Replicated" into bay 3 and 4 (original positions) and restart the nas and I'll have the new volume, an unused 3TB drive ready to repurpose into another single drive JBOD volume and the Replicated volume, unscathed...
Is this right? If not, any suggestions?
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If you use the home folders, you do need to back up the home folder contents.
The system ought to migrate them to "new", but that's another behavior I wouldn't depend on myself. You are going down a path that isn't well-trodden (and I suspect not well tested by Netgear).
@WiredRacing wrote:
2.5) Can I rename it now so that when I import it it'll come back in as "replicated" or once it's exported it's "gone" until reinstalled?
No. The volume will disappear when you export it. And you can't rename volumes in the Web UI,
@WiredRacing wrote:
6) Copy the contents of the "Primary" to the "New" Volume (I suspect it's ideal to do this via SSH rather than the browser-based ReadyNAS management tool)
7) Delete the "Primary" volume
😎 Recreate the old "Primary" volume shares, on the "New" volume.
9) Remove the Primary Drives
10) Move the 10TB Drive to Bay 1 (no problems moving active volumes betweens bays I'm assuming?)
The order here is wrong. You need to
6) Create new shares (with unique names) on "new" - relating the names to the shares on "primary"
7) copy the data in the shares to "new"
😎 Destroy the primary volume
9) Power Down
10) Remove the Primary Drives and move "new" to slot one
11) Power Up
12) Rename the shares on "new' to match the original names on "primary".
As I said earlier, you can't rename "new", so pick a name you can live with for the life of the volume.
As noted above, you need to create new shares on "New" - with names that are unique across all volumes. After that you can either copy with SSH or with Web UI backup jobs. You definitely don't want to create the shares with ssh. They are BTRFS subvolumes - not ordinary folders. And you don't want to copy hidden folders on "primary" as they are managed by the ReadyNAS application software. Don't try to copy snapshots either.
Be careful with ssh - you could easily break the Readynas application software if you try to do this manually. It's safer to use backup jobs to copy the data (one for each share), and the speed will be the same.
@WiredRacing wrote:
11) Install one of the 3TB drives from Primary into Bay 2
12) Install the "Replicated" drives back into Bay 3 and 4. If 2.5 above isn't possible, does it ask me to choose a new name for it? Changing it's name is fine.
13) Create another JBOD volume "Extra" with the 3TB drive in Bay 2.
I haven't played much with export. I did it once accidentally a long time ago, and if I remember correctly I ended up losing the volume. @Sandshark has used it more (and more recently), so hopefully he will chime in .
But I think these steps aren't quite right. I suggest
11) Power down (again)
12) install the "replicate" disks (preserving slot order).
13) power up, and see if it mounts. The name can't be changed.
The power down might not be needed. Netgear doesn't say - the kb article just says that "The volume will be exported for cold import on another ReadyNAS" without explanation. But I think it likely is needed. Although you could potentially do this step when the NAS was powered down before, I wouldn't do that either. I think the risk is less if you don't combine these steps.
"Replicate" might not remount - since you aren't importing it to another ReadyNAS, you are attempting to import it to the same ReadyNAS (with the same OS partition and configuration). That is what I tried to do years ago when I accidentally exported - and that didn't work for me. If it doesn't remount for you either, then you will need to get advice here or from paid support. Or create a new volume and accept the data loss.
If it does remount:
14) hot insert the 3 TB drive into slot 2
15) format it via the volume page
16) create the "extra" volume
Then if the home folders are gone (and you use them), you need to connect to the NAS with SMB using each user's credentials. That should recreate the home folders. As you do that, restore the contents of each home folder with drag-and-drop using a backup.,
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Re: Need to add capacity to full RN104 consisting of 2 JBOD volumes.
This is what the "Export" function is for, but I wouldn't trust it to data that's not backed up. And for it to later be re-imported, you cannot create a new volume with the same name. You may have to go back and re-establish user privilages in files after the import. (I know you do if you move the volume between NASes, I've not tried it returning to the same NAS.)
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Re: Need to add capacity to full RN104 consisting of 2 JBOD volumes.
Exporting "replicate", creating a new 10 TB jbod, migrating data to it, destroying "primary", and then adding "replicate" back is one possible path. When you're done, the 10 TB volume wouldn't be called "primary" (since you can't have duplicate volume names). If you attempt this, you should also uninstall your apps first, and then reinstall them when you are finished.
But I agree with @Sandshark that you shouldn't attempt this without a backup. And with your setup (still jbod when you are done) you have a higher risk of data loss than you'd have with redundant RAID.
A better approach is to invest in USB backup drive(s), and back up both volumes. Then you could rebuild the NAS. Consider going with a 2x3TB RAID-1 volume "replicate" and leaving slot 2 empty. Then later on you can either convert the 10 TB volume to RAID-1, or expand "replicate" to 3x3TB RAID-5.
I get that this would add a couple hundred dollars to the project. But data recovery will cost at least that much (and success is not guaranteed). You are better off spending the money now.
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Re: Need to add capacity to full RN104 consisting of 2 JBOD volumes.
Okay so let me see if I get this straight (ignoring the ideal to backup to USB or convert the 'replicated' volume as a 2 disk RAID-1 instead of the less protective 2disk JBOD volume):
1) Uninstall apps (not sure I'm using any actually)
2) Export "Replicated" in the readynas management tool
2.5) Can I rename it now so that when I import it it'll come back in as "replicated" or once it's exported it's "gone" until reinstalled?
3) Pull the "Replicated" drives (Hot I'm assuming is okay after the export)
4) Install the 10TB Drive
5) Create a Volume, called "New" with the 10TB Drive.
6) Copy the contents of the "Primary" to the "New" Volume (I suspect it's ideal to do this via SSH rather than the browser-based ReadyNAS management tool)
7) Delete the "Primary" volume
😎 Recreate the old "Primary" volume shares, on the "New" volume.
9) Remove the Primary Drives
10) Move the 10TB Drive to Bay 1 (no problems moving active volumes betweens bays I'm assuming?)
11) Install one of the 3TB drives from Primary into Bay 2
12) Install the "Replicated" drives back into Bay 3 and 4. If 2.5 above isn't possible, does it ask me to choose a new name for it? Changing it's name is fine.
13) Create another JBOD volume "Extra" with the 3TB drive in Bay 2.
14) Reinstall any apps.
15) Done.
Other than potential risk of data loss (the most important data is on primary and I'm not touching that volume until the data has been copied to the "New" volume), does (should) that task list work?
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If you use the home folders, you do need to back up the home folder contents.
The system ought to migrate them to "new", but that's another behavior I wouldn't depend on myself. You are going down a path that isn't well-trodden (and I suspect not well tested by Netgear).
@WiredRacing wrote:
2.5) Can I rename it now so that when I import it it'll come back in as "replicated" or once it's exported it's "gone" until reinstalled?
No. The volume will disappear when you export it. And you can't rename volumes in the Web UI,
@WiredRacing wrote:
6) Copy the contents of the "Primary" to the "New" Volume (I suspect it's ideal to do this via SSH rather than the browser-based ReadyNAS management tool)
7) Delete the "Primary" volume
😎 Recreate the old "Primary" volume shares, on the "New" volume.
9) Remove the Primary Drives
10) Move the 10TB Drive to Bay 1 (no problems moving active volumes betweens bays I'm assuming?)
The order here is wrong. You need to
6) Create new shares (with unique names) on "new" - relating the names to the shares on "primary"
7) copy the data in the shares to "new"
😎 Destroy the primary volume
9) Power Down
10) Remove the Primary Drives and move "new" to slot one
11) Power Up
12) Rename the shares on "new' to match the original names on "primary".
As I said earlier, you can't rename "new", so pick a name you can live with for the life of the volume.
As noted above, you need to create new shares on "New" - with names that are unique across all volumes. After that you can either copy with SSH or with Web UI backup jobs. You definitely don't want to create the shares with ssh. They are BTRFS subvolumes - not ordinary folders. And you don't want to copy hidden folders on "primary" as they are managed by the ReadyNAS application software. Don't try to copy snapshots either.
Be careful with ssh - you could easily break the Readynas application software if you try to do this manually. It's safer to use backup jobs to copy the data (one for each share), and the speed will be the same.
@WiredRacing wrote:
11) Install one of the 3TB drives from Primary into Bay 2
12) Install the "Replicated" drives back into Bay 3 and 4. If 2.5 above isn't possible, does it ask me to choose a new name for it? Changing it's name is fine.
13) Create another JBOD volume "Extra" with the 3TB drive in Bay 2.
I haven't played much with export. I did it once accidentally a long time ago, and if I remember correctly I ended up losing the volume. @Sandshark has used it more (and more recently), so hopefully he will chime in .
But I think these steps aren't quite right. I suggest
11) Power down (again)
12) install the "replicate" disks (preserving slot order).
13) power up, and see if it mounts. The name can't be changed.
The power down might not be needed. Netgear doesn't say - the kb article just says that "The volume will be exported for cold import on another ReadyNAS" without explanation. But I think it likely is needed. Although you could potentially do this step when the NAS was powered down before, I wouldn't do that either. I think the risk is less if you don't combine these steps.
"Replicate" might not remount - since you aren't importing it to another ReadyNAS, you are attempting to import it to the same ReadyNAS (with the same OS partition and configuration). That is what I tried to do years ago when I accidentally exported - and that didn't work for me. If it doesn't remount for you either, then you will need to get advice here or from paid support. Or create a new volume and accept the data loss.
If it does remount:
14) hot insert the 3 TB drive into slot 2
15) format it via the volume page
16) create the "extra" volume
Then if the home folders are gone (and you use them), you need to connect to the NAS with SMB using each user's credentials. That should recreate the home folders. As you do that, restore the contents of each home folder with drag-and-drop using a backup.,
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Re: Need to add capacity to full RN104 consisting of 2 JBOD volumes.
Thanks Stephen. Really appreciate your thouroughness. And yes, I was only thinking of copying the files in SSH and doing everything else through the management console. It also helps to hear the recommendation to power down rather than continually hotswapping.
As for the remount, I've come across some articles that suggest I can perhaps force a remount, though I'm not sure about it in the 'exported' form. The data on those drives exists elsewhere so even if I do lose them, it's but a hassle to recreate. And fortunately none of the home folders are in use.
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Re: Need to add capacity to full RN104 consisting of 2 JBOD volumes.
I did some experimenting with Export when I had a couple new NASs to "play with" before putting them in service. It was on something like OS6.4.2. Since I don't use home folders, I can't say what will happen with them. There is no "import" function, it's automatic. I did all removals and insertions with power off, and I think that's the way it's intended. I didn't find a lot of documentation on export/import except for on the ReadyData line. But it seems to work pretty much the same on ReadyNAS.
It is important that there not already be a volume named the same as one you intend to import or shares in it named the same as ones in other volumes. I wouldn't recommend trying anything "fancy" with upper/lower case being the only difference, either, since SMB is case insensitive.
I did actually try putting two volumes with the same name in just to see what happens, and in added a "-0" to one of them, but neither seemed to be working quite right. When I separated them, nothing blew up; but I wouldn't count on that.
I did have a couple times that things blew up, but I was trying so many things (including stuff you probably shouldn't, just to see what happened), I can't recall if they were in the category of "yeah, I knew I shouldn't do that" or not.
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Re: Need to add capacity to full RN104 consisting of 2 JBOD volumes.
Update:
So before exporting, I upgraded from 6.7.5 to 6.9.5. Then exported. Powered down, removed the "Replicate" volume and installed the new 10TB drive into Bay 3, created a volume, similar sounding shares and started copying the data over.
Copying the data from the "Primary" volume to the "New" volume took days. Internally on the NAS, the most sustained throughput I could get was around 12mb/s, however if I copied from my desktop using SMB (Windows Share copy) I could get up to 52mb/s. There's a whole thread of this exploration here.
I then powered off, and moved the 10TB to Bay 1, removed all the other disks. after this reboot, SMB wasn't loading. I've started a new thread exploring a permanent solution to this issue here.
Once the copying was done the auto "import" of the exported "Replicate" volume when reinstalling the drives in their bays after a shutdown and power-on worked flawlessly.
I then proceeded to export those two drives again, deciding to build a RAID 0 out of the 2x3TB drives as the contents of that "REPLICATE" volume was content from the "Primary" share.
Once that's complete, I'll take one of the 2TB drives and stick it in Bay 2 for a separate 2TB JBOD volume.
But in short, it worked, with a few unexpected hiccups along the way (the SMB daemon and local copy issues). I'll post in those other threads as I gather more information about those problems for others future reference.
Just glad to be just a few hours done with this project with more space and less 'risky' volumes. Thanks for your guys help here and others posts elsewhere all helping me navigate this project.
Hopefully the NAS will go back to being something I can largely forget about because it just works (as it was prior to this project).