Reply
xsnrg
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

More digging gives a fun command called 'filefrag <filename>"

# filefrag dwin5.img
dwin5.img: 118655 extents found

This is a file on a share created for VMs. The file has existed there for about 3 weeks. It is a live machine. All snapshots are deleted, and continuous protection is turned off now.

Is 118655 extents to manage high? That is just one file Smiley Happy

btw, just running filefrag causes the machine to go into IO wait at 27 to 38

Another VM file on the share:

filefrag dwin13.img
dwin13.img: 204276 extents found
Message 801 of 1,275
mangrove
Apprentice

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

xsnrg, thanks, you seem to have nailed it down -- this also fits perfectly with other problems we have seen.

There is only one solution, and Netgear should make it a priority to implement it: give users a choice of file systems for new volumes.

Edit: have put this as a feature request: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=73845
Message 802 of 1,275
MueR
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

A few other performance tweaks I made to the FS.

In /etc/sysctl.conf, I added the following:
vm.dirty_ratio = 3
vm.dirty_background_ratio = 2
vm.swappiness = 1


This reduces the amount of data that can accumulate before the FS starts committing it, reducing the amount of load.

WARNING:
Messing with these types of settings could seriously damage your system.
ReadyNAS Ultra 6, Samsung Spinpoint F4 EG HD204UI HDDs
Message 803 of 1,275
xsnrg
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

A few comments. First, it would be nice to be able to select the filesystem, but even with btrfs there are other options that could be explored. There is a defrag mount option, which probably is not ideal for a nas, but there is the option, when a new sub is created (a share in readynas speak) to set an attribute on the sub +C. This disables operations of CoW, and would change some important things on how that sub operates. Netgear would have to call out what the difference is and how it affects things like snapshots, but it is about the only option I see to use btrfs for VM images. The attribute change/option would allow the rest of the NAS, if desired, to still use all the functions of btrfs.

Netgear should NOT default a new share to have snapshots on. This is a bad idea.

Finally, messing with the vm areas of the kernel should only be done if you are absolutely sure you know what you are doing. This is not saying you don't just a warning for others reading this. An example, vm.swappiness affects the ratio of used memory in the system to the amount, and starting place for swapping memory to disk. My NAS has it set to 0 which I think is a good setting. This causes the machine to always prefer memory to disk swap until memory is completely exhausted. Setting it higher may give you more disk cache, but as soon as you start swapping things out of system memory, you pay the price when it is needed again. In an OS made to be as light as possible, which I hope is the case, most of the things in memory are important, even if periodically, to the operation of the system.
Message 804 of 1,275
MueR
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

You're right, I've added a warning. The default for swappiness is 50 by the way, so it was a significant improvement.
ReadyNAS Ultra 6, Samsung Spinpoint F4 EG HD204UI HDDs
Message 805 of 1,275
xsnrg
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

MueR wrote:
You're right, I've added a warning. The default for swappiness is 50 by the way, so it was a significant improvement.


Running 6.1.4? Maybe they are setting it dynamically based on amount of memory. That would make sense. My 4G machine is set to 0. I have not made any changes to it's config that I cannot make through frontview for warranty reasons.
Message 806 of 1,275
mangrove
Apprentice

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

xsnrg wrote:
A few comments. First, it would be nice to be able to select the filesystem, but even with btrfs there are other options that could be explored. There is a defrag mount option, which probably is not ideal for a nas, but there is the option, when a new sub is created (a share in readynas speak) to set an attribute on the sub +C. This disables operations of CoW, and would change some important things on how that sub operates.


The problem is that I'm seeing the same behaviors on my iSCSI containers -- and those files have +C set. Or is CoW still operating on a volume level even if the file has CoW disabled? In that case, a bug in BTRFS?
Message 807 of 1,275
xsnrg
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

You have verified the containers are +C? Then you still have the problem of the filesystem mount not being noatime I would guess. What do the extents look like on one of the containers in use?

In my case, for the VM image it has nothing set:

# lsattr dwin5.img
---------------- dwin5.img

so I am still have issues happening given the file is changing all the time. The filesystem is also mounted with relatime, not noatime.

another interesting thing the whole of the filesystem is mounted under /data (the /c of yore) with its own mount options. Then sub mounts for the same metadevice are created for the shares with their own mount options.

/dev/md127 on /data type btrfs (rw,relatime,space_cache)
/dev/md127 on /run/nfs4/data/vm2 type btrfs (rw,relatime,space_cache)

Given the options go with the mount point, changing the latter mount for the share should be able to be done without affecting the rest of the system. I don't use iSCSI though. How does your differ?
Message 808 of 1,275
mangrove
Apprentice

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

Hm, I can't check right now, went back to OS4 to verify that performance can be good and I'm thinking of trying my hand at a full Debian instead if things with OS6 doesn't improve very fast. But yeah, I verified +C on the iSCSI container file.

Also I'm looking for an easily understandable description of the workings of BTRFS while writing data. I'm wondering if writing many small blocks means multiple read/write operations over the array, triggering multiple seek/rotational latencies. If that is the case, there should be a huge difference between RAID1 and RAID5. But that would be a more general problem with MDRAID and BTRFS in many scenarios...
Message 809 of 1,275
StephenB
Guru

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

I'm not sure if this is really a question about BTRFS or RAID.

If you are updating a sector on a RAID-1 array, the general case is that you need to read the sector, update the part that's changing, and then write it - you need to do that on both drives.
Of course the read/write operations are cached - but if the I/O is random, that will not help.

If you are updating a sector on a RAID-5 array, the I/O is the same in the general case. The data sector is read/updated/rewritten. The parity sector (on a different drive) is read, and updated, and written. The parity sector is updated by XORing with the original data, then XORing again with the changed data.

So in the general case of making a small update (less than one sector), the I/O for RAID-1 and RAID-5 are the same.

But there is a special case- when you are writing the entire sector on the application layer.

For that, RAID-1 simply writes the data to both drives - no reads are required.
RAID-5 still requires the general case - the data sector still needs to be read, because the parity sector needs to be XORed with it. Likewise, the parity sector needs to be read.

The impact on speed depends on performance of the disk caching.
Message 810 of 1,275
mangrove
Apprentice

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

Certainly, but for spinning disks, there are seek and rotational latency penalties. Smart controllers tend to hide those, and in days of yore there was spindle sync to minimize the impact of this, but it can't be completely hidden. I guess my real question is if BTRFS does several reads/writes, for example for metadata updating.
Message 811 of 1,275
sgirard
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

AMRivlin wrote:
Sigard what version are you on? I think 6.1.4 may be unstable on the pro 6. 6.1.1 was much more stable.


Thanks AMRivlin for the recommendation. Silly question, where can I get 6.1.1? I been searching for on Netgrea's download site and I only able to find 6.1.1 for the amd processor. Don't I need the x86 version?

Thanks
Shawn
Message 812 of 1,275
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

No ReadyNAS units use AMD processors. The amd64 version is the one for x86_64 devices
Message 813 of 1,275
sgirard
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

mdgm wrote:
No ReadyNAS units use AMD processors. The amd64 version is the one for x86_64 devices


Thanks!
Message 814 of 1,275
sgirard
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

mdgm wrote:
No ReadyNAS units use AMD processors. The amd64 version is the one for x86_64 devices


Silly question. Once, I have downloaded the armed version and unzip. How do you upload the img to the readynas? The pro only excepts bin files for a firmware upload. Is there way to img to a bin?
Message 815 of 1,275
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

You download the x86_64 (amd64) version not the arm version for the Pro. It will accept the .img. The filename is not what it is important but rather what is in the header at the start of the file.
Message 816 of 1,275
Supercows
Guide

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

You guys are doing a great job :-) I have done some reading here the last couple of hours. But I still have some questions sorry Smiley Tongue

I have bought myself a ultra 2 yesterday. Because I have a Readynas DUO but want to use sabnzb, sickbeard and couchpotato. The Sparc isn't powerfull enough.
Are these packages already working in the OS6 environment?

Also I see http://apps.readynas.com/pages/ and https://genie.netgear.com/UserProfile/ what is the difference and those aren't usable at the moment right?
Because it seems like i can download apps from apps.readynas.com..

Thx
Rob
Message 817 of 1,275
F_L_
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

sabnzb is available in the OS6 "app-store" sickbeard and couchpotato can either be bought from whocares? (http://rnxtras.com/) or installed using GIT (viewtopic.php?f=153&t=71803)
Message 818 of 1,275

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

Hi,

Well, I can believe that I'm the only one with this issue, but I didn't find a solution (neither in the forum, nor Google...)

I have a Ultra 2 running OS6 6.1.4 successfully.

But I can't activate alarms, because of the below alarm being triggered every 5 minutes
V5_0 voltage in enclosure 'internal' is out of spec. (4,74V).


According to boot_info.log, the min value is 4,65 (90%)

labelvol1: V5_0
minvol1: 4.65
maxvol1: 5.35

So the current value is in the expected range.

Well, is their any solution to ignore this alarm ? Disable it ? Adjust the threshold ?

Any solution is welcome.
Thanks
Message 819 of 1,275
arnomc
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

I also have an Ultra 2 on 6.1.4 but I don't have any voltage warning. When I upgraded to 6.0.8 my readynas wasn't plugged on any UPS for about a month, but since then it's on my ACP 500W. Never had any voltage warning on any of these configurations.
I don't think having a UPS changes anything about internal voltage values because in between there is the 12V adapter then the internal regulation to deliver 5V). I can't help you more on this !
Ultra2 with ReadyNAS OS 6
Message 820 of 1,275
rnas_newbie
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

no problems with voltage alerts on my Ultra 2, running 6.1.4
changing the subject slightly but just in case it helps anyone;
no fan mods installed, even when running old raidiator the CPU had a tendency to run close to 74-77c, same occurs on 6.1.4 but if it gets to 77-80c fans slowly increase and reduces to 68c.
Running crashplan perfectly, with 2gb ram, after amending the max size for java to 1.7gb
It's connected to a UPS.
Message 821 of 1,275
tadgy1
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

Phew - Finally got through all 55 pages of this thread! Smiley Happy

I've recently upgraded my Ultra4 to the 6.1.4 firmware following the procedure in this thread. I've not made any other alterations (aside from changing the volume from RAID5 to RAID10) or installed any extra packages as yet.

I've noticed that my fan speed and temperature's seem a little... off. I have to admit, I didn't pay any attention to these in the 4.x firmware, so have no clue what they should be; but I was hoping another Ultra4 user might be able to tell me if these seem normal for the 6.1.4 firmware.

http://picpaste.com/pics/NAS-Status-fVksUgDz.1385300547.jpg

I've not installed sensors or fancontrol (as per the 'quick fix' thread) as yet - I wanted to see if the latest firmware would iron out any of the fan/temp issues with the legacy boxes before going down the custom solution route.

Can anyone please confirm whether the fan speed and temp's are off for me? The fan speed seems too low to me, and the CPU temp about 15 degrees too high for a system that is totally idle (i've not even set up any shares as yet).

I was hoping to avoid installing custom packages to fix things like this (since i'd prefer not to have to do this each time I upgrade firmware...) but am happy to do so if it's going to provide a stable and happy NAS Smiley Happy

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers.
Message 822 of 1,275
MattyShack
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

Genie Apps don't always seem to install properly and some should be free due to opensource code.

###################################################################
###################################################################
### Editor: Matty Shack
### Document Version: 1.0.0
### Publication Date: 24-November-2013
### OS: 6.1.4 (tested with ReadyNAS Pro 6)
### PURPOSE: Provide instructions to install UseNET Apps onto the ReadyNAS x86 running OS 6.1.4
### All installed apps will be registered to display as a standard app

This Guide will help you Install:
Python [2.7.3]
Php5 [5.4.20]
phpMyAdmin [4.0.9]
Plex Media Server [0.9.8.10.215-020456b]
SABnzbd
SickBeard
CouchPotato Server v1
CouchPotato Server v2
HeadPhones
Maraschino
OwnCloud (Uses GIT ~ PHP source and not deb files -> this means no dependency conflicts during install)
SpotWeb
PyTiVo

Guide can be found here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1y_OP ... sp=sharing

Hope this helps.
Message 823 of 1,275
tadgy1
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

MattyShack wrote:
Genie Apps don't always seem to install properly and some should be free due to opensource code.


From what i've read through this thread, the Genie App store doesn't work at all on legacy systems and you shouldn't even try to enable it. It seems the only way to install the Genie apps is with apt-get through an SSH session.

As for the Open Source apps being free; open source does not mean you cannot charge for the binary versions of the applications.

Open Source is free as in speech, not free as in beer. The GPL (which I'll focus on here, but other OSS licenses vary) allow you to charge for the work you do to compile/package the open source code. The only requirement is that the code used to produce those binaries (be it original or modified by you) be provided to anyone who has obtained the binary version[1] should they request it.

This is why some apps in the Genie store might be charged, even though they are based upon Open Source code bases.

Hope that makes the situation clear Smiley Happy

[1] - It's a common misconception that you have to supply the source code (including your modifications) to EVERYONE, even if you only ever sell binaries/packages to customers.

The GPL (an others, but not all) requires you to provide the (potentially modified) source code to people who have legitimately paid for the binary versions - not everyone that asks.

So, unless you've paid for the binary version, then you have no right to any modified code; regardless of whether the original project was
GPL. You can also charge for the dissemination (at cost) of providing that source code, if you wish.
Message 824 of 1,275
MattyShack
Aspirant

Re: OS6 now works on x86 Legacy WARNING: NO NTGR SUPPORT!

Didn't mean to get your nickers in a bind, but thanks for clearing up the common GPL/Opensource misconceptions.

1. As far as the Apps that I've had problems with, I'm referring to some of the free apps that automatically appear through the Dashboard interface, not those actually enabled and accessed by a Genie login and password. Sorry if I'm using the wrong terminology.
2. Most of the apps I'm referring to are the GIT Python/PHP apps (source code) that are not compiled binaries and available for free to the masses. I'm a novice, but [when I can, if I can] like helping others with like products and services. I also like being able to ask for help when I'm in a tight bind, so I give of myself to the service of others in exchange for the same. Now if/when I have that great idea that deserves a profit, I'll be the first to market.

Cheers,
Message 825 of 1,275
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