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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
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RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Hi
A few days ago I have created a new instance of Win 10, and this has just upgraded to Win10 1709 Fall Creator.
Before upgrading to 1709 the instance was connected to the shares, and the shares were mapped as drives with drive letters.
After the update to 1709 it can't connect to the shares on my NAS.
My old Win10 instance (on different partion) can still connect fine to the shares.
My new Win10 in connected to an MS Work Account using Office 365, that means using Active Directory.
My old was not using AD.
My NAS uses the authentication access type Local users, and has done this all the time.
Hence when usually establishing connection to the NAS, I am using the NAS-defined username and password, and this has worked fine.
I have done some searching, and based on this tried using the SMB Plus app on the NAS, and there tried to adjust SMB-versions etc.
This changes the types of errors I get when trying to view/connect to shares, but it does not make accessing shares possible.
I have also looked in to the Win-setting for IPv4 (NetBios). It is set as standard, and the same way as on the functioning Win10 instance.
To me this appears to be clearly RELATED to the windows update.
Any hints on what to do/try, before I consider opening a support case?
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Is your user name the same on the PC and NAS but the password is not? If so, the PC is likely presenting the AD credentials to the NAS, which is refusing them. You should be able to correct that by deleting the mapped drives and re-mapping them using Connect using different credentials.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
I (usually) connect the drives as you describe (using different credentials), as I have always had different usernames on the PC and the NAS.
(This was what I meant with this: "Hence when usually establishing connection to the NAS, I am using the NAS-defined username and password, and this has worked fine.")
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Can you access it by typing the NAS address or name and share name (//xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/Share or //NasName/Share) into a Windows Explorer address bar? If not, what is the error message?
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
No. When I do, I am - as expected - requested to enter credentials.
And when I enter the NAS-stored Username and Password, I receive an error 0x80004005.
The text is probably something like this (translated to english):
Network error
There can't be established access to \\NasName\ShareName.
Control if the name is spelled correct. There can possibly be problems with the network. Click on diagnose to try to identify and solve network problems.
I HAVE run diagnose a few times - and also tried resetting all network settings.
No luck.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Are you possibly already connected to the NAS with different credentials form the same computer (or, at least Windows thinks you are)? Windows does not allow you to connect to the same device using different sets of credentials. You can partly work around that by using the name for one connection and the IP address for a second one, because Windows does not know they are the same device.
Try opening up a command prompt and typing net use /delete, then try again.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
BTW, I am very interested in getting to the bottom of this. I have two systems that have asked me to allow them to update to 1709, and I have put it off. But I can't do that forever.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
NEW INFORMATION:
I have now tried to also disable IPv6 (as suggested elsewhere).
And I have tried using command line to map the shares as a drive AND THIS WORKS (partly).
net use t: \\NasName\ShareName /user:NasUsername NasPassword /persistent:yes
Doing this, I get the share mapped as t: (in the CMD-environment).
I am able to cd to t:, and use dir to see the files.
and using net use shows the mapped drive.
HOWEVER: It does not have effect on windows explorer (or my other GUI-file managers), where the t: drive is not appearing, and can't be adressed. STRANGE 😞
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
I have now tried to use Credentials manager, to delete (all) the windows-stored credentials to the NAS.
I have then rebooted.
There are now NO STORED credentials in windows for the NAS.
On the NAS, the SMB Plus app is still set for SMB Version 3.0 (which I assume is right).
This is what I now observe:
When using Windows File Explorer, I click on the NAS-entry in the Network Group (in order to see what it contains (so Windows does still detect the existence of the NAS). I now get the error 0x80070035. The text something like this (translated): The network path was not found.
This is a different error than before. And I am now not requested to enter credentials.
I have now also tried to (again) remove the NAS-app SMB Plus, and let the NAS OS handle it by it self.
No change.
I can still use CMD/net use to map the drive and get CMD/dir access. But the drive is still inaccessible from the GUI file managers. (And I expect from other windows uses as such).
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
@WarCon wrote:
HOWEVER: It does not have effect on windows explorer (or my other GUI-file managers), where the t: drive is not appearing, and can't be adressed. STRANGE 😞
That is extremely strange, and suggests that something isn't right in the windows system.
Do you have internet security software running on the PC?
After you mount the drive letter, what happens if you go to file explorer and enter \\NAS-NAME in the address bar?
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Yes. It is strange.
Windows can see the NAS. Windows can see the media-part of the NAS (which I am not using).
CMD can map drives and use them.
But the drives are not visible in GUI-file managers. and can't be mapped there.
And - as expected - can't be used/reached in other windows programs either.
I believe this calls for opening a support case with Microsoft then.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
"
Do you have internet security software running on the PC?
After you mount the drive letter, what happens if you go to file explorer and enter \\NAS-NAME in the address bar?
"
No special Internet security software. Only Win10 out of the box.
After having mounted using CMD/net use, I still get the same error in file explorer using the address bar.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
NEW INFORMATION
Before today, when I mapped the drives using CMD/net use, I did it by opening CMD as Administrator.
Hence it (apparently) can't be seen when using the file explorer .
I have now tried doing it with "normal level" CMD, and it ALMOST works like a charm.
At least it works fine until I restart.
Then the mapped drives become inaccessible againg.
As a quick work around, I will now just create a small script that I run whenever I have reebooted:
net use * /delete
net use (drive 1) ...
...
This should FAST make my PC and drives usefull again, which I need now.
But it shure ain't pretty.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
The next step is to open the windows credential manager, and enter a "windows credential" for the NAS that has the nas-name, username, and password for the NAS.
I suggest also reserving the NAS IP address in the router. Then create a second credential that has the NAS ip address instead it's name. This credential can use a different account.
That should result in \\nas-name and \\nas-ip-address showing you the list of shares when you enter them into the explorer address bar.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
There was a change made with the Fall Creators update with SMB: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4046019/guest-access-smb2-disabled-by-default-in-windows-10...
I don't want to create a local Group Policy for each computer at my home (and any guest who comes to visit me) to access the NAS shares. I'm hoping that Netgear will provide instructions on how to force authentication as per Microsoft's recommendation.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
OS 6 NAS support SMB3, so you shouldn't have to set any PC policies related to SMB2.
If Fall Creator is prompting for credentials, try entering guest with no password and see if that works. If it fails, you can create an account on the NAS for your guests to use (for instance, ReadyNAS username with ReadyNAS as the password). While you could use the same account for your own systems, I think it's better to use a different account. Whatever account you use can be entered into the windows credential manager if you wish.
@hksscom wrote:
I'm hoping that Netgear will provide instructions on how to force authentication as per Microsoft's recommendation.
Microsoft's recommendation is not to use guest access, and instead to use credentials for a NAS account. The stricter policies are being built into Windows, there is nothing that can be done on the NAS to override them.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Ah, thank you for pointing out that SMB3 is already used by default.
I agree that guest access without a password should not be allowed, and creating a guest NAS account for access is the way to go. However, this appears to require the guest to know one of the share names they should have access to. Example:
Guest wants to browse what shares are available. In the past, one would go to \\readynas, see the list of shares, then upon trying to enter one, would be prompted for credentials. With the Fall Creators Update, when you go to \\readynas, there's no list of shares, no prompt for authentication, and simply an error message stating that the method is no longer allowed.
If I remember right, going directly to a share doesn't work either, such as \\readynas\public -- the user never gets prompted for creds. The only way I was able to get access to work is to map a share to a drive, and ONLY then was a user able to browse other shares. There must be a friendlier way for users to browse available shares without having to map a drive, no?
@StephenB wrote:OS 6 NAS support SMB3, so you shouldn't have to set any PC policies related to SMB2.
If Fall Creator is prompting for credentials, try entering guest with no password and see if that works. If it fails, you can create an account on the NAS for your guests to use (for instance, ReadyNAS username with ReadyNAS as the password). While you could use the same account for your own systems, I think it's better to use a different account. Whatever account you use can be entered into the windows credential manager if you wish.
@hksscom wrote:I'm hoping that Netgear will provide instructions on how to force authentication as per Microsoft's recommendation.
Microsoft's recommendation is not to use guest access, and instead to use credentials for a NAS account. The stricter policies are being built into Windows, there is nothing that can be done on the NAS to override them.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
@hksscom wrote:
Guest wants to browse what shares are available. In the past, one would go to \\readynas, see the list of shares, then upon trying to enter one, would be prompted for credentials. With the Fall Creators Update, when you go to \\readynas, there's no list of shares, no prompt for authentication, and simply an error message stating that the method is no longer allowed.
I have only updated one of my computers to the Fall update, but I do not find that to be the case if using a non-guest login. I am prompted for a name and password before I can see any shares, but they are there once I provide them. Are you sure you gave this new pseudo-guest access to the shares?
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Yes, I tried this on 3 separate computers and a VM, and all exhibit the same behavior when no NAS share was previously drive mapped. The way all my shares are set up, none are accessible to "Everyone". Each share requires a NAS account (with some having more rights than others). The guest account I created has limited Read-Only rights to certain shares.
Do you perhaps have a share that is accessible to "Everyone"? I'll try that later and see if I can create an empty share that's open to Everyone and whether that would allow one to see the list of Shares prior to being prompted for creds when trying to enter a restricted one.
I also have Home folders disabled.
@Sandshark wrote:
@hksscom wrote:
Guest wants to browse what shares are available. In the past, one would go to \\readynas, see the list of shares, then upon trying to enter one, would be prompted for credentials. With the Fall Creators Update, when you go to \\readynas, there's no list of shares, no prompt for authentication, and simply an error message stating that the method is no longer allowed.
I have only updated one of my computers to the Fall update, but I do not find that to be the case if using a non-guest login. I am prompted for a name and password before I can see any shares, but they are there once I provide them. Are you sure you gave this new pseudo-guest access to the shares?
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Yes, some of my shares are accessible to everyone. That might make a difference, I suppose. But if that were it, why would it ask for credentials before showing me anything? Are you sure Windows isn't passing it bad credentials from the credentials manager? Does you NAS even show up in Network?
You aren't using active directory, are you? That could certainly make things different.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
Good question about why it would ask for credentials before it shows something, but right now the "Everyone" theory is all I have that I could possibly investigate on. I'll clear the Credentials Manager on the VM side and see what behavior it would then exhibit. Yes, the NAS shows up under Network, and I use local NAS accounts only (no AD, though I have seriously considered setting up a domain at home lol)
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
I've confirmed that by creating a NEW share with "Everyone" having access (with or without "Anonymous Access" checked), Windows now provides a list of shares again (like pre-Fall Creator Update) when going to the NAS via \\readynas. Upon trying to enter one of the restricted shares, it then prompts for credentials like intended.
I've called the new share "zOpen-SMB" with a 1MB quota, Everyone Read-Only rights as shown below. Thanks for pointing me into the right direction, Sandshark!
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
I spoke too soon. The issue still persists after I rebooted all test machines. Difference between the VM that works and the PCs that don't: one runs Windows 10 Pro (OK), the others run Windows 10 Enterprise (Error). I believe that the Fall Creators SMB update only affects certain editions of Windows 10, and Pro may not be one of them. Back to square one.
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
"Difference between the VM that works and the PCs that don't: one runs Windows 10 Pro (OK), the others run Windows 10 Enterprise (Error). I believe that the Fall Creators SMB update only affects certain editions of Windows 10, and Pro may not be one of them. Back to square one."
I have now tried the latest win-updates to 1709 Fall Creator, og and also updated the NAS firmware to 6.9.0.
I have also ensured that I have at least one share on the NAS that has rights for Everyone/Anonymous.
Still no luck when using file explorer, so I am still running af "net use" script whenever I reboot, deleting/creating drive mappings.
Since I am running Win 10 Pro, your luck with the Win 10 Pro version does not appear to be consistant for us all.
Thanks for the efforts and trials - and for sharing 🙂
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Re: RN314 OS 6.8.1 - Win10 Pro 64-bit Fall Creator 1709 - Can't access Shares
You can get Windows to force credentials either via Mapped Network Drive or using Windows Credential Manager