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Readynas Pro heat issues

ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

I have a feeling it's the CPU fan. It's supposed to be running at 1500 RPM or so, but that's not how it looks to me. My PSU fan died and scheduled power down/ups failed so it's possible the CPU fan is giving the ghost. The replacement solved those issues neatly.

Note I have 6 2T HDDs and perhaps not the coolest ones. Just noticed you have nice 4T HDDs. Kool!

I can tell you that if the SYS fan is stopped my NAS will not be happy.

The CPU fan replacement arives to day and so are the other tools. Will see how that goes. If that doesn't solve issues I guess I could try a factory reset or something like that... I can dig to see what motherboard I have as well. Again, more than likely it's the CPU fan.
Message 26 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

yes, you have 6HHDs but they ARE the coolest, you have WDC Green's, I have RED's. RED's are GREEN's with a different FW. I have two extra platters. Sure, with 6HDDs it would get warmer sooner, but you said your HDDs would shut down in minutes and I barely reach 40°C in 30 minutes.

If the CPU fan was at fault, your CPU temperature would be higher. My CPU, if memory serves, is a low power one, the "notebook" version. My previous CPU was hotter if memory serves.
Message 27 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Yes. I have 2 Greens and 4 Reds.

I can try disabling the SYS fan and post results (a long with times) later. It took minutes for things to go down. And it wasn't the CPU that started giving the alarm, it was the SYS going over 65C.

You SYS temperature is nice betwen 42C with the SYS fan running, and 53C with the SYS fan disabled. Mine is 59C with the SYS fan going about 1500 to 1800 RPM. Lower than 1500 RPM the SYS temperature starts to climb rather rapidly. I've seen the my Pro turn on from cold and go up to about 62C in a few minutes, until the SYS fan ramps up and stabilizes the temperature to 59C.

I'm not certain about this, but the CPU fan may not just cool the CPU. It may suck air out of the side vent.

As far as the source of the heat for the SYS temperature, I can only point to the CPU and/or the heat sink below it. That gets hot, and I was thinking it's the CPU's fan work to cool those down.

My CPU is a used $4 E5300. Could get an E6600 used for like $4 and give that a try as well. The two processor specs are not that different from what I've seen though.
Message 28 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Right, then your HDD's were not shutting down, the box was shutting down because the SYS temperature was too high. You probably have a higher temperature than me in California (I'm in the UK) as a start. That is not something to be underestimated.
Then you have 6 HDD's. The CPU fan vents in the box itself. The SYS fan must be able to extract that air AND extract air from the HDD's. If your SYS fan is just enough to extract the CPU air, then no air will flow through the HDD's. Since the air coming from the CPU is forced in, it will be the first to get out via the SYS fan.
Message 29 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

The box did not shut down, it just sent me e-mails about the temperature being abnormally high. But Disk 1 DID shut down. It gave me a scare since I thought I was going to have to replace the drive. I'm not making things up. I'll see if I can dig the e-mail notification which might have the temperatures. I deleted it from my main acount, but might have it in another one since my Pro sends notifcations to two e-mail accounts. Can't get to it right now from work though. Or maybe it's in the logs and if so I will post them.

Also, the SYS fan pulls significanlty more air from the HDD front vents that from the CPU side vent. At least acording to the palm of my hand feeling the air going through the chasis.
Message 30 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

That puzzles me. The HDD shutting down I mean.

Anyway the SYS fan pulls air from two cavities: the HDD cage and the motherboard van. The Motherboard van has a fan in it which means that that air "gets out first" if you see what I mean. If the SYS fan is not powerful enough, the air coming from the motherboard van will get out first. If you had no CPU fan, then the SYS fan would pull air from both cavities. So yes, it could be that if the SYS fan has the same airflow of the CPU fan, the HDD's wouldn't get any airflow.

That being said, I barely reached 40°C with the SYS fan not working. I am still puzzled. Any chance your HDD's were doing a re-sync or a scrub when that happened?
Message 31 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

I'll check the logs to see how things went down.

As far as the air. I think the SYS fan sits right behind the HDDs and lots off air gets pushed out of the NAS there since the HDD board is perforated for ventilation. You can easily feel this with your hand. On the other hand, the motherboard sits perpendicular to the SYS fan and airflow is somewhat blocked by the PSU and the internal chasis. Furthermore, the SYS fan is the ONLY fan pushing air away from the NAS. The CPU fan can only pull air into the NAS. So if the SYS fan is stopped it would seem to me that the CPU fan would only work by pulling more air from the side vent and inefficiently pushing it out through any available gaps (including the SYS fan mount cavity).

Note there is a heat sink under the CPU that is in direct contact with Disk 1. It even has a conductive pad. Disk 1 is always the hotter disk perhaps due to this heat sink. If the CPU heat is not properly dissipated through the chasis by the fan, my best guess is that it could heat up the Disk.

I'm not certain this is what's going on, but it's the best explanation I can currently offer given that Disk 1 shutted down, and SYS temperature went up. Will see.
Message 32 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Welp. I don't have proof about the Disk 1 shutting down. But here are the temperature alarms:



The CPU fan did not solved it, but it's pushing more air...

Device Description Status
Disk 1 WDC WD20EARX-00PASB0 1863 GB , 33 C / 91 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 2 WDC WD20EARX-00PASB0 1863 GB , 32 C / 89 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 3 WDC WD20EFRX-68AX9N0 1863 GB , 30 C / 86 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 4 WDC WD20EFRX-68AX9N0 1863 GB , 31 C / 87 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 5 WDC WD20EZRX-19D8PB0 1863 GB , 31 C / 87 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 6 WDC WD20EARX-00PASB0 1863 GB , 30 C / 86 F , Write-cache ON OK
Fan SYS 1493 RPM OK
Fan CPU 1939 RPM OK
Temp SYS 59 C / 138 F [Normal 0-65 C / 32-149 F] OK
Temp CPU 31 C / 87 F [Normal 0-60 C / 32-140 F] OK
UPS 1 APC Back-UPS ES 550, Battery charge: 100%, 17 minutes OK

Will see if I can improve air flow by crimping cables...

EDIT:

Removed the extra connector and crimped the cables. No difference.

So, completely clueless as to what is causing the Temp SYS to go high.
Message 33 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

I'm with Stephen here.

You live in California, Google says 28°C today. I have probably around 18°C on the floor where I keep my NAS. Let's say 5°C difference. Then you have 6HDD's, which are going to make a difference for sure. I am not sure when the SYS fan is speeding up, I know it speeds up when the HDD's go beyond 42°C if memory serves, not sure about the SYS temp.

To find out more I stuck an heater in front of the NAS 🙂
The SYS fan speeds up slightly (927 from 892) till the temp reached 60°C, then it ramps to 1300rpm. The extra airflow manage to cool the box enough so the temp then dropped to 59°C, despite the heater in front of it.
So I put both CPUs to 100%. The CPU fan speed ramped up to 4000rpm within a minute or so, then the HDDs managed in the meantime to go over 42°C and the SYS fan speeded up again to 1700rpm. That again was enough to keep the CPU below 65°C and the SYS below 60°C. It was not going any higher and the SYS fan was not running at 100%.

Once the heater was turned off, it took say 5 minutes to go back to normality (the CPU takes less time). The SYS fan eventually dropped to the usual low speed after more time - the fan is waiting for the HDDs to go below the threshold of 42°C. It took 11 minutes for that to happen.
Message 34 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Something is probably a little wrong with my old unit. It is not the fans, nor the PSU, nor the disks, nor the CPU. Perhaps something on the motherboard. But at this point I feel is wasted money and time to investigate further.

The unit was actually replacement (and used) that I got, after some advice from after hours support managed to brick my brand new NAS some years ago. The unit stopped doing automated power ups and years later the PSU fan gave up (which is why I replaced the PSU).

I got a brand new unit for $350, perhaps because the unit was being pushed out from the store (Microcenter). These are the much more reasonable numbers I'm getting:

Device Description Status
Disk 1 WDC WD20EARX-00PASB0 1863 GB , 33 C / 91 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 2 WDC WD20EARX-00PASB0 1863 GB , 33 C / 91 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 3 WDC WD20EFRX-68AX9N0 1863 GB , 32 C / 89 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 4 WDC WD20EFRX-68AX9N0 1863 GB , 32 C / 89 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 5 WDC WD20EZRX-19D8PB0 1863 GB , 33 C / 91 F , Write-cache ON OK
Disk 6 WDC WD20EARX-00PASB0 1863 GB , 32 C / 89 F , Write-cache ON OK
Fan SYS 902 RPM OK
Fan CPU 2033 RPM OK
Temp 1 54 C / 129 F [Normal 0-65 C / 32-149 F] OK
Temp 2 41 C / 105 F [Normal 0-85 C / 32-185 F] OK
UPS 1 APC Back-UPS ES 550, Battery charge: 100%, 17 minutes

The unit runs much more quiet.
Message 35 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

the only difference is the SYS fan speed. You said you tried the calibration, did you?
Have you run a factory reset on this new unit?
Message 36 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

The other differences are the SYS temperature being lower and the CPU temperature being higher. For some reason the old unit has a hard time cooling the chasis.

I tried calibration like 50 times on the old unit. I did not run a factory reset on the new unit.
Message 37 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

The Sys temp is just 4°C lower, maybe it's just a cooler day! I may be mistaken but I feel you are overlooking the importance of the ambience temperature.

I do not know where the SYS temp sensor is, maybe it was just slightly misplaced on the old unit?

I kind of remember that the Motherboard is then resting on the chassis as well for heat dissipation, behind the CPU, but I may be mistaken.
Message 38 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Today is a hot day and my old unit's SYS temperature was higher with the SYS fan running quite a bit faster, today. I'm fairly confident there is something wrong or maybe different on my old Pro unit. I'll keep it as a backup in case the new one fails. It runs reasonably well if I remove the side panel.

EDIT: LOL! Turns out the new unit comes with the E5300. I think I read around here that there might be different motherboard versions (could be wrong). At least this brand new unit is quiet and runs well. It would have been nice if the replacement unit I got was not some obviously used, outdated, and perhaps refurbished deal. But it is what it is. I feel I got a good deal on this new unit and learned some stuff.
Message 39 of 48
itsjasper
Luminary

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Weren't the v1 Pro units known for reporting high system temps (something related to the temp sensor placement on the Northbridge IIRC)?

I remember my first v1 Pro exhibiting similar behaviour under v4.x, it was always close to the upper limit and triggering alarms in summertime. I don't recall ever having a problem with it other than the alerting.

I don't recall it triggering alarms under OS6, though I'm not sure if that is an OS6 thing, or because it has been relegated to test duties in the basement. I'll bring it upstairs and see what it reports.
Message 40 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Well, for what it's worth, the HDDs do run cooler with the old Pro... which maybe due to the SYS fan running much slower.

The one thing I kind of regret is the step where I crimped the PSU cables to the extension. The PSU replacement job looked a little nicer with the connector. The crimps add volume to the mess of wires anyway.

The old unit might have been fine (after a PSU replacement), but it was fairly noisy.

How are the fans behaving under OS6? Read around that fans were running too fast or something. Any issues?
Message 41 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Well if the SYS temperature sensor is on the Northbridge... that would explain many things. I thought it was actually sensing the air out of the box! And that would explain why removing the side panel would slow down the fan, there is no 'fresh air' getting into the motherboard vane, where the NorthBridge is, all the fresh air goes into the CPU and only when it's been warmed up it then enters the MB vane.

How do I distinguish between V1 and V2? Is the sensor an actual sensor (i.e. a wire) or is it embedded into some electronics?
Message 42 of 48
itsjasper
Luminary

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

ultrabike wrote:
How are the fans behaving under OS6? Read around that fans were running too fast or something. Any issues?

No issues with the fans, but then I was a latecomer to OS6 (I think around the time of v6.1.9, after the fan speed issues had been fixed on legacy units).


Here's my setup temperatures and fan speeds, I'm running three OS6 units at home, two Pro BEs with upgraded CPUs and a stock Ultra 6. All stats measured at idle state, all three units were cleaned and dust free as of a week ago:

DEV - Pro BE v1 w/E6700 CPU + 2GB RAM
5 x 320GB disks (temps 40-44C / 104-111F) - FAN 835 rpm - CPU 36C / 97F - SYS 53C / 127F (basement 17C /63F)

PROD - Pro BE v1 w/X3230 CPU + 4GB RAM
6 x 4TB disks (temps 33-35C / 91-95F) - FAN 869 rpm - CPU 35C / 91F - SYS 50C / 122F (office 21C / 70F)

DR - Ultra 6, stock CPU + 4GB RAM
6 x 4TB disks (temps 35-38C / 95-100F) - FAN 788 rpm - CPU 35C / 95F - SYS 29C / 84F (basement 17C /63F)

Note the lower SYS temperature reading on the Ultra 6.
Message 43 of 48
ultrabike
Aspirant

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

Thanks! I'll see if I can upgrade the old unit to OS6 and report back.
Message 44 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

slightly OT: I tested OS6 some time ago, it was when the fans were still having trouble. The "fan speed issue fixed on legacy units" puzzles me. Are Netgear working to integrate OS6 on legacy units too?
Message 45 of 48
StephenB
Guru

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

tony359 wrote:
slightly OT: I tested OS6 some time ago, it was when the fans were still having trouble. The "fan speed issue fixed on legacy units" puzzles me. Are Netgear working to integrate OS6 on legacy units too?
Netgear doesn't support OS6 on legacy x86 devices (pro, ultra). But they have occasionally slipped in some bug fixes for legacy, which IMO is quite nice.
Message 46 of 48
itsjasper
Luminary

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

^^^ Indeed, and it was this, coupled with the fact that my Pro were almost out of warranty anyway, that made me switch to OS6.
Message 47 of 48
tony359
Apprentice

Re: Readynas Pro heat issues

indeed, Stephen.

I'll think about during my next factory reset, I did try OS6 when I was still testing and I cannot remember right now what was not right that made me decide to stay with OS4. After all I am just using the NAS... as a NAS, besides the CrashPlan which anyway works beautifully. I'll evaluate during next HDD upgrade - those bloody HDD's don't want to get any cheaper!!
Message 48 of 48
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