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Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

farokh
Aspirant

Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

I have a ReadyNAS product that had a power supply failure literally 5 days after the 5 YEAR warranty expired.

 

Netgear's answer: Tough luck, the unit is out of warranty, was end of life some time ago and we won't do anything for you. Go buy a brand new ReadyNAS unit that is compatible and you can maybe get your data.

 

Well, I "fixed" my unit by hooking it up to a PC power supply (there was nothing special about the power supply other than size), and I'm using it for the moment, but once I decide my path going forward, it won't be with any Netgear products.

 

If you want to be sure that you can get to your data, I suggest you look somewhere else, with a company that actually supports their end users instead of telling them too bad, you're screwed.

Message 1 of 21
cpu8088
Virtuoso

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

what the fuss?

 

your warranty expired is that it has expired

 

u cannot expect electronic products will last forever

 

 

 

 

Message 2 of 21
farokh
Aspirant

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

Basically, I was told to go and spend $600-$800 for a new unit with no hard drives so I could put the hard drives from my old unit in it if I wanted to get my data. Netgear has NO spare parts available and didn't even offer to compromise by selling me a newer unit for cheap.

 

Remember this unit failed 5 DAYS after a 5 YEAR warranty was up. The joke is that the warranty starts from the date I BOUGHT it, not the date I received it. It was shipped ground, and I didn't receive it until over a week after I ordered it, so I lost out on the week's warranty. That means it would have still been under warranty, yet Netgear refused to bend one inch. If it weren't for the fact that I am very technical and was able to figure out how to power it back up with a different power supply, I would have lost either a bunch of money or all the data that was stored on the drives.

Message 3 of 21
cpu8088
Virtuoso

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

"""I would have lost either a bunch of money or all the data that was stored on the drives."""

 

if u are technical enough u should know the importance of a backup

 

lol

 

u can easily find a replacement power supply from fleabay

 

new readynas use btrfs which is way better than the old ext formats. u should consider getting a new readynas.

 

 

 

 
Message 4 of 21
farokh
Aspirant

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

You're missing the point. Netgear should stand behind their products. If they are giving you a 5 year warranty, then they should be able to have parts available for units past that 5 year date. They should at least have parts available for 5 years AFTER the unit is EOL. I know that the unit I have was not EOL until much later than when I bought it, so it's obvious that Netgear does not want to stand behind their products.  And again, telling me to go pound sand because my unit was 5 DAYS out of warranty shows that Netgear doesn't care to keep customers happy.

 

Message 5 of 21
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

A newer model than the one you purchased was released less than 3 months after you purchased your NVX. So your model has been discontinued for a very long time now.

 

The PSU is not considered a user replaceable part so if a unit fails under warranty we would replace the entire NAS unit with a refurbished one.

 

Unfortunately the power supply in your unit failed after the warranty had expired.

 

5 years is already a very generous warranty length. It's unfortunate when parts fail shortly after the warranty expires but these things happen.

 

 

We do stand behind our products and back in 2013 when you contacted support we went above and beyond to resolve a problem you were having.

Message 6 of 21
IcyK
Tutor

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.


@cpu8088 wrote:
[...]

new readynas use btrfs which is way better than the old ext formats. u should consider getting a new readynas.

 

I've seen you making this statement often, but never providing an argument in favour.

If you read the forums, BTRFS (or at least the way Netgear implements it) delivers nothing but crap and troubles.

 

I'd very much like to have the option to use ext4.

Message 7 of 21
ifixidevices
Luminary

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

A newer model than the one you purchased was released less than 3 months after you purchased your NVX. So your model has been discontinued for a very long time now.

 

Ouch! That definitely sucks! But why are you blaming it on him? How was he supposed to know you were coming out with a new model and the model he paid good money for then would be discontinued so soon after he bought it?

 

The PSU is not considered a user replaceable part so if a unit fails under warranty we would replace the entire NAS unit with a refurbished one.

 

Netgear considers a lot of things not user replaceable but lets be honest, most people who purchase NAS units have some tech ability. I tell people all the time they should have a NAS box and they look at me like I am speaking a foreign language. Power supplies do go out, so it's odd that netgear can't offer to even sell a replacement, but then again you said they aren't "user replaceable" so that lets them off the hook for supporting a unit (or in this case replacing it with a refurbished unit.) Wouldn't it just be easier to let the user swap out power supplies? I'm sure if a fan dies that isn't user replaceable either, lets have downtime while we wait for the whole unit to be sent in over a fan? (I'm just playing devil's advocate here but it begs the question.)

 

Unfortunately the power supply in your unit failed after the warranty had expired.

 

5 days. And he gave a great example of how shipping affected the outcome of his warranty. In this case an exception could have been made. Being told to pound sand when you have data on the line isn't really going to appease you.

 

5 years is already a very generous warranty length. It's unfortunate when parts fail shortly after the warranty expires but these things happen.

 

Well if 5 years is too generous then make it something else. I think with how expensive some of the units are why wouldn't you offer a warranty as long as the enterprise drives we're supposed to have in them. What's unfortunate is that there was no exception given when he clearly explained that there a disconnect with shipping. Then there's the fact that support told him to go buy a new one. Ironically enough had he bought a new device he wouldn't have been able to save his data anyways because you can't pop drives in to a unit with different firmware. I know because I've tried it. Yes he didn't have a backup of his data anywhere else but the problem wasn't with his data or the devices holding his data, it was with the box that contained those devices and holds them hostage should an issue like this arise.

 

We do stand behind our products and back in 2013 when you contacted support we went above and beyond to resolve a problem you were having.

 

I realize you're giving an example that you do support your products but really? So petty as to go back into the history to look up when you helped someone with an issue? What do we only get one instance of support and that's it. Are most people just never supposed to contact support and boy oh boy if you do that's it?

 

Basically it looked like there were too many cheerleaders in the post. I thought I'd spring to the other side and give a viewpoint opposite of the tough luck buddy crowd that came in there. 

Message 8 of 21
StephenB
Guru

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

Losing the PSU 5 days after the warranty expires totally sucks - and it would have been nice if Netgear had offered a warranty replacement anyway.  Farokh would have been praising them to the skies, instead of sharing his frustration/disappointment.

 

But Netgear was not under any obligation to do that, and I agree with mdgm that the 5 year warranty on business units is quite generous.  

 

The good news is that farokh is up and running (and there are SFX supplies readily available that will fit into the Pro line).

 

Message 9 of 21
ifixidevices
Luminary

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

No, netgear didn't have any obligation I agree, it just would have been nice to see in this instance a little bit of grace on their part. I had a Vizio TV that had problems prior to the warranty going out (we couldn't re-produce the problem though during the warranty period) and then 3 weeks after the warranty period expired (months later) it happened again. Vizio was fine with it and gave us a bigger and better TV delivered and installed in our house by a 3rd party company (they could have just shipped it in a box to our house but they went above and beyond.) Also the unit was new, not refurbished (came right out of a retail sealed box.) Best of all, all of the CSR's spoke perfect english and we were never once sent to a foreign nation for support.

 

Why am I saying all this? Well I thought Vizio was just a cheap TV company but after going through the experience I've learned that they stand behind their products and go out of their way to fix issues. Based on how I was treated I will likely buy another Vizio TV.

 

Back on point though, even though this instance sucks and you can buy replacement power supplies it still stinks that it happened the way it did. Does that change my personal opinion on Netgear, no. Will I still buy them for myself and others, yes (I'm sure many netgear people were wishing I'd just leave!)

 

Even though netgear releases buggy firmware that I"m not even technically supposed to be running on a few of my units I think the units are built well, use quality hardware, and overall I really like the netgear brand. Most of my networking equipment is netgear.

Message 10 of 21
StephenB
Guru

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.


@ifixidevices wrote:

No, netgear didn't have any obligation I agree, it just would have been nice to see in this instance a little bit of grace on their part.


I'd say we are in agreement then.

 

The only thing I'd add is that Netgear does need to take their spares inventory into account.  That likely does limit them, at least in some geographies.

Message 11 of 21
farokh
Aspirant

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.


@mdgm wrote:

A newer model than the one you purchased was released less than 3 months after you purchased your NVX. So your model has been discontinued for a very long time now.

 

The PSU is not considered a user replaceable part so if a unit fails under warranty we would replace the entire NAS unit with a refurbished one.

 

Unfortunately the power supply in your unit failed after the warranty had expired.

 

5 years is already a very generous warranty length. It's unfortunate when parts fail shortly after the warranty expires but these things happen.

 

 

We do stand behind our products and back in 2013 when you contacted support we went above and beyond to resolve a problem you were having.


The one thing I had forgotten to mention is that when I first called in with my problem, the tech who took my call put me on hold while doing some searching. Apparently a large number of power supplies in these units failed and were covered under an extended warranty/repair program. After about 30 minutes, I was told that my unit didn't qualify. I'm now left to wonder if that's because there were no spares available any longer. I looked a bit further and the power supply in the unit has no fan. It relies on the fan for the whole box to keep it cool. No wonder it died. When I looked up the generic part number, all the power supply units I saw being sold had fans in them. So, in reality, Netgear sold a defective item and then refused to make good on the failure.

I don't recall the exact cause of my 2013 support call, but I'm pretty sure it was due to bugs in the firmware.

Message 12 of 21
IcyK
Tutor

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

Isn't the Ultra4 PSU the same as (or compatible with) the NVX PSU?

(I could desassemble both as I have both, but I'm too lazy to do that just to satisfy my curiossity 😉 )

Message 13 of 21
cpu8088
Virtuoso

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.


@IcyK wrote:


 

I've seen you making this statement often, but never providing an argument in favour.

...

 

I'd very much like to have the option to use ext4.


 

there are features with btrfs which ext4 does not possess.

 

synology dsm6.0 is using btrfs in beta stage, that would take them at least 6 months to get to production stage. and if you check up their forum u would notice there are lots of problems to be solved.

 

what argument? there is no argument.

 

 

 

Message 14 of 21
IcyK
Tutor

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

That's what I mean. You're just stating opinions / testifying to your beliefs. Which is fine, but don't act like you're selling the ultimate truth here.

When asked, there is no answer, no argument in favour of BTRFS. I'd like to know why it is supposed to be so much better. The only advantage I see on my 5 OS6 boxes is the absence of a 16TB limit. Nothing else (regarding the file system, that is). What am I missing?

 

Earlier you stated people should upgrade to 6.4.0. I asked what would be the difference in experience for the user, as I was in doubt to upgrade. You kept quiet.

 

Also, I don't know the relevance of what Synology does or does not do. I don't own Syno products.

Message 15 of 21
StephenB
Guru

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

BTRFS offers the snapshot feature (which is a major plus, despite the bump in the road with 6.4).  It also includes the file checksums, which give more assurance that data is intact, and which are used in Netgear's bit rot protection.  The file system also doesn't need journaling.  The metadata format eliminates both the 16TB expansion ceiling and the 8TB volume growth limit in legacy ReadyNas.

 

Personally I think Netgear made the right call when they switched to it. 

Message 16 of 21
cpu8088
Virtuoso

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.


@IcyK wrote:

..... but don't act like you're selling the ultimate truth here.


....Also, I don't know the relevance of what Synology does or does not do. I don't own Syno products.


well what is ultimate truth? can u define?  i believe your ultimate truth is stick with ancient ext4 full stop. am i right?

 

advantages of using btrfs as against ext4 can be searched easily via internet. can u use any web search. dont think this forum is appropriate for education.

 

 

 

Message 17 of 21
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

If a new unit was purchased we could have provided assistance with attempting to get the data back using that.

 

Replacing the PSU with a 3rd party one as happened in this case is an option for those with the necessary technical ability.

 

There are other options too such as using an ordinary x86 Linux PC. Assuming the disks, array and volume are fine, basic familiarity with mdadm, LVM2 and EXT4 is all that is needed to start the RAID and mount the volume

 

In any case if your data is important to you never store it on just the one device. RAID is not a replacement for backups. 

 

 

As for the Service Action for PSU Failures that was for the NV/NV+, older models than the NVX. Some NV/NV+ units were shipped with PSUs that had very high failure rates.

 

 

 

We find that problems can be all too readily be blamed on the filesystem and turn out to be unrelated to the filesystem choice.

 

EXT4 has its fair share of issues and it's becoming ever clearer we made the right decision to move to using BTRFS.

 

It is true that every filesystem has best practices as to how it should be used.

Message 18 of 21
eAJ2015
Aspirant

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.


@mdgm wrote:

 

5 years is already a very generous warranty length. It's unfortunate when parts fail shortly after the warranty expires but these things happen.

We do stand behind our products and back in 2013 when you contacted support we went above and beyond to resolve a problem you were having.


 

Really? This just makes you and netgear sound like a bunch of pr....penises.  I suggest you edit your post so as not to sound so arrogant and prickly.

 

PS. For the record I am a strong supporter of netgear and they are always my first port of call

Message 19 of 21
IcyK
Tutor

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

@cpu8088 wrote:
.

well what is ultimate truth? can u define?  i believe your ultimate truth is stick with ancient ext4 full stop. am i right?

 

advantages of using btrfs as against ext4 can be searched easily via internet. can u use any web search. dont think this forum is appropriate for education.

 

 

 

No, you are not right.

Don't turn this around. YOU are claiming BTRFS is better; asked why (multiple times), you do NOT answer.

I just want to know why because I don't expercience the fruits of it, but apparently you're not able to explain, other than 'because it is newer' and make a childish move like you probably did at kindergarten.

 

I have no complaints about BTRFS/OS6, other than it seems to lead to a systemload which is 10 times more than OS4 (1.0 vs. 0.1 in 'idle' state). Running SAB with OS6, sysload peaks to 14, while with OS4 it peaks to 3.5.

 

So I do experience some cons and asked for the pro's I did not experience (except for the newer Debian version which makes it easier to tweak the OS).

But you obviously have no idea on what you're talking about, you're only stating 'it's better because it's newer'.

 

 

@ StephenB: thank you for your answer, that's what I was looking for. I do not care for the snapshots as I only use the nas for either long-time storage or as intermediate for downloads (which are then stored elsewhere). But the other features sound very useful for that first purpose.

 


Message 20 of 21
farokh
Aspirant

Re: Stay away from ReadyNAS (and Netgear) if you want support after the warranty is up.

I need to get a copy of Netgear's warranty statement. Where can I find that?

 

Message 21 of 21
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