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Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

EkDor
Aspirant

TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

Im getting an error when I try to backup my TimeMachine on NAS to a USB HDD 100% of the time.

I haven't been able to resolve this but have some thoughts as to why it might be happening. No idea if this is true or what to do about it.

I only recently started using our ReadyNAS as the TimeMachine destination so several reasons. One was to add an additional layer of protection to the data on our computers by being able to free up the TimeMachine HDD (2TB USB ATI-2) to use to backup the TimeMachine on the NAS. All sounds reasonable and my research didn't indicate any real issue with doing so. But Although TimeMachine backs up to the NAS very well, I have thus far been entirely unable to backup the TimeMachine on NAS to the USB HDD. I have tried various configurations and all the NAS USB ports. Using a 4 bay ReadyNAS NV+ with 4x2tb HDD configured to 5.

Some specific thoughts as to why I think it might be failing. When it fails it tells me there is not enough room. I have two separate computers backing up to the one NAS. I have noticed that although there is one setting to setup TimeMachine in the FrontView there appears to be a unique share for each computer. No real way to see this except to look at the backup disk from the perspective of each computer. Each computer can only see it's own backup directory, the backups work fine and they both show their total available space as 2tb. I have the FrontView TimeMachine settings to use 2tb. One machine is backing up at about 180 gig and the other is backing up at about 600 gig. I thought that maybe the 2tb TM share was being literally shared between them without visibility. I don't know if this is true or not. Now as far as the error is concerned I decided to assume they are both using their own 2tb share, 4tb in total which won't fit on the 2tb USB HDD. So I reduced the time machine share size setting to 900gig and reset up the USB backup to the front port to reduce potential confusion with the multiple ports at the back. Only thing I haven't tried due to unacceptable risk is set it to 900gig and re-setup the TimeMachine backups on each computer. This is too time prohibitive for an unknown result which would leave both computers unbacked up. So unless this is known to be the issue i'm not prepared to do that. Is this an issue of multiple computers creating multiple TimeMachine shares?

Thanks for any thoughts and assistance to come. Cheers.
Message 1 of 13
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

I would change the quota back to what it was before. The quota is only used up if your backups use up the space. So for now about 780GB should be in use I think.

Are you trying to backup the sparsebundles while a TM backup is running? That is not a good idea.

You can use 3rd party apps to disable TM backups (e.g. between 1am and 7am) and then schedule the Frontview backup to run during this time.
Message 2 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

point 1 - I have done that thanks.

Point 2 - Hmm I had not considered that. I'll try again after turning TimeMachine off on both computers. I'll post result here later. If this works I can handle turning them off manually since I plan to place the USB HDD in another building and backup the NAS TM about once a week. Thatway if something happens to our house or tech, it won't be a total loss of personal work.

Is the mounted drive actually a mounted sparsebundle? That would put things into a little better perspective. Mind you I can't see the sparsebundles directly through any shares or front view listings. Is that correct?

Thoughts - The error does say in the log it ran out of space. Seems to be working fine upto a point where it just lists not enough space. Might this be related to the format of the USB?. The thing hampering my problem solving is that it appears to work upto a point, but I have yet to see any files laid down onto the USB HDD.

Cheers,.
Message 3 of 13
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

EkDor wrote:

Is the mounted drive actually a mounted sparsebundle?

Yes, the TM backups are stored on sparsebundle images
EkDor wrote:

Mind you I can't see the sparsebundles directly through any shares or front view listings. Is that correct?

Yes.
EkDor wrote:

Thoughts - The error does say in the log it ran out of space. Seems to be working fine upto a point where it just lists not enough space. Might this be related to the format of the USB?. The thing hampering my problem solving is that it appears to work upto a point, but I have yet to see any files laid down onto the USB HDD.

How is the USB drive formatted? One possibility is that since it was used with a Mac it may be formatted with the GPT partitioning scheme. Try reformatting the USB drive with the MBR partitioning scheme.
Message 4 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

I reformatted it before useing it for this purpose. Formatted as Mac OS Journaled.
Message 5 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

Well my attempt to backup with all instances of TimeMachine turned off failed. Posting the error log bellow.

Well here is a typical line from the log email.

'./Hoot HDD.sparsebundle/bands/d77' -> '/USB_HDD_1/Hoot HDD.sparsebundle/bands/d77'
cp: cannot create regular file '/USB_HDD_1/Hoot HDD.sparsebundle/bands/d77': No space left on device

Ill reformat the drive and try again. Ill post full error and status then. This one was too large as i had included full report.
Cheers,.
Message 6 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

It looks to me like its not creating the sparsebundle on the USB HDD. But redusing the TimeMachine size setting to 900gig should mean 2 of then can fit. I know you said they grow as needed upto the set limit but it feels like they were set to full size. Hmm i should be able to check that. Will have to do some calculations. I read somewhere something about reducing the sparse bundle size requiring a resetup of TM on the computers. Just not prepared to leave my computers at risk without knowing for sure that is the problem.

Hmm by my calculations the space used supports your advice regarding the size of the disk images. But behaviour seems to suggest otherwise. Will go try reformatting the USB HDD now.
Cheers,.
Message 7 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

OK some more thoughts.

1. Not really sure which options to choose when reformatting the USB HDD. I assume GPT is the ones used by TimeMachine and that's not in the Disk Utility list of options and MBR is the typical Mac format, (Mac OS Extended (Journaled))? that's what it is now.

2. I just noticed that in the Backup Settings (in Front View) I have not specified a path. If I click browse I get nothing to select. I assume this is expected since I have only formatted the USB HDD and not created any subdirectories. I had the destination set to USB Device (rear bottom port).

3. Noticed USB_HDD_1 in the list and in my share list as seen from the computer connecting to the NAS via AFP. Which I hadn't looked at with the USB HDD connected to the NAS. Looking in that share I saw what appears to be a portion of a backup of one of the computers TM backups. The file was only 180 mb (not gig) and I was unable to mount it. Yet if I connect the USB HDD directly to one of the computers I get what looks like an empty disk. So I'm now attempting to set the destination to the USB_HDD_1 option which I presume is something the NAS has established in relation to the USB HDD being attached to the USB port. It says "a USB disk attached to this device will show up as a share" does this mean I should be using the USB_HDD_1 share and not select the port I intend to use? What's the difference? Wish Front View could be more forth coming with information like this.

Anyway it indicates the Backup is working as usual. Looking at the USB_HDD_1 share mounted on the mac the file is 1k and has only 184.5 mb available. This might explain why it runs out of space since my earlier look at it was the same size but full. Not sure what is going on here. Tried an experiment with the free space on the USB HDD. Totally confused.

Any clarifying advice would be helpful. So I wonder what's going on and am I backing up to the USB HDD or to a share on the NAS?

thanks in advance. Cheers,.
Message 8 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

OK I read up on MBR and how to go about formatting properly for it. I had missunderstood you. Set it to MBR Fat32 (couldn't get the NAS to recognise Mac OS Extended Journaled partition) and when I mounted the USB_HDD_1 share the full 2tb appeared. Will try this.

Cheers,.
Message 9 of 13
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

The NAS will work with FAT32/NTFS/EXT3. You can format the drive to EXT3 or FAT32 via Frontview (assuming you have the v1, the v2 has the new Dashboard web interface and no option to format USB disks) under Volumes > USB Storage. FAT32 has a limit of 4GB per file.
Message 10 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

Yea. Did it with computer. My concern is what happens when a file larger than 4gig is backed up by timemachine. Anyway it seems to be working. Although its its been running about 15 hours now. As far as i can see it hasnt got to the larger sparsebundle yet. Hmm. Might have to do this less freqently than planned.
Message 11 of 13
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

If you reformat it to EXT3 then you'll be fine with files larger than 4GB. EXT3 is used by the internal disks in the ReadyNAS NV+ (v1). EXT3 is limited to 2TB per file.

Backup performance to USB isn't great. Performance using EXT3 > FAT32 > NTFS. There is a setting under System > Performance to Enable Fast USB Writes.
Message 12 of 13
EkDor
Aspirant

Re: TimeMachine Backup to USB HDD Error 100%

Well that backup took about 5 days. Totally unacceptable. Will be quicker to do it manually over our wi-fi. Oh well. Thanks "mdgm" for your help. Cheers,.
Message 13 of 13
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