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Zero file size documents in backups

Zero file size documents in backups

I am starting to see a lot of documents in my backups with a zero file size.  What can be causing this?  I am not getting any kind of a error with the backup job runs.  there are still a lot of files that 

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Message 1 of 26
rn_enthusiast
Virtuoso

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Hi @Jeff_Howard_sps 

 

How are you backing these files up? Is it some backup between two NAS units or is it a client to NAS backup? Or something else? Knowing exactly how these are backed up and what devices/applications are involved, will help a lot.

 

Cheers

Former Netgear employee. Views and opinions are my own.
Message 2 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

The backup job is from a windows server file share to the NAS.  Its an incramental backup every 4 hours and a full backup every week.

Message 3 of 26
StephenB
Guru

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

If you try a drag-and-drop from the PC, do you still see zero file size documents?

Message 4 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

If I drag the file from the NAS to my desktop the file has a (ZERO) file size and windows will tell me the file is currupt and won't open it.  This is the same if I try to download the file from the NAS web portal as well.  I will see if I can post a screen shot of a side by side of the server folder and the backup that is on the NAS.

Message 5 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Screenshot 2021-04-07 172807.png

Message 6 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

liked is the screen shot.

Message 7 of 26
StephenB
Guru

Re: Zero file size documents in backups


@Jeff_Howard_sps wrote:

If I drag the file from the NAS to my desktop the file has a (ZERO) file size and windows will tell me the file is currupt and won't open it.  This is the same if I try to download the file from the NAS web portal as well.  


Understood.  I was wondering about the other direction (simulating the backup by dragging one of the files on the server to the NAS).  Ideally you'd do that from the server.

Message 8 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Copying the files from the server to the NAS will overwrite the file on the NAS and the proper file size will appear.  I am currently useing the software call Beyond Compare to assess what has been currupted.  So Far about 50Gb of 1.2Tb on the NAS is files with no file size.

Message 9 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

I have also tried to re-create my backup jobs and I am still getting the same Zero file size for a lot of files.

Has anyone else seen this?

Message 10 of 26
StephenB
Guru

Re: Zero file size documents in backups


@Jeff_Howard_sps wrote:

I have also tried to re-create my backup jobs and I am still getting the same Zero file size for a lot of files.

Has anyone else seen this?


I haven't, and it does seem strange that there are no errors.

 

One possibility is to run backup software on the PC that has the NAS as a destination instead.  Something like freefilesync perhaps.  Though I suspect Beyond Compare could also be used - it appears to have some backup options.

Message 11 of 26
rn_enthusiast
Virtuoso

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

I find it unlikely that the NAS is the culprit here. The NAS will write whatever is asked of it and if client asks to write a 0 byte file, that is what the NAS will do.

 

Network packet captures would show what happens exactly. If you are interested in getting to the bottom of it, then that is likely the route we need to go. I can help you with that @Jeff_Howard_sps  if you have the desire 🙂 Just PM me about it.

 

Cheers

Former Netgear employee. Views and opinions are my own.
Message 12 of 26
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

These are from backup jobs run from the NAS?  Is it possible that the files in question are locked by the source because they are in use?  I would expect that to generate an error, but I don't do backups in that manner to see if it does.

 

You are likely much better off using a backup product on the server that supports Windows shadow copy and has the NAS as the destination.

Message 13 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

I will send you a PM and we can go from there.  Thanks for your help.

Message 14 of 26
rn_enthusiast
Virtuoso

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

It is a backup from a windows client to the ReadyNAS using a backup software @Sandshark 

 

If I understood it correctly 😀

Former Netgear employee. Views and opinions are my own.
Message 15 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

The backup is from a windows server to the NAS, useing the built-in backup solution in the ReadyNAS.

This is on a RN316 with the latest firmware avalible. 6.10.4

Message 16 of 26
rn_enthusiast
Virtuoso

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Ohh that is interesting, I might have misunderstood that. So, it is a job that is configured and managed FROM the ReadyNAS UI (a pull backup as we call it)? As in, you created the backup job via the backup setting on the NAS itself?

 

What job type is it? A windows timestamp backup or?

Former Netgear employee. Views and opinions are my own.
Message 17 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Yes, a "Remote Winodws Timestamp" Backup job.  They have been working great for years.  I create a new job and delte the old one's if I change the source server.  So I have re-created a few of the backup jobs recently to see if something in the Job settings got messed up, but I get the same results even with newly created jobs.

Message 18 of 26
rn_enthusiast
Virtuoso

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

I got it the wrong way around then. I thought it was a backup application on the Windows server, pushing backups to the NAS 🙂 Which is why I didn't think the NAS was being a fault but.... this changes things a bit! It might have to retract that statement.

 

I still wonder what is going on though. I haven't seen behaviour like this before. Creating zero byte files, odd! I know we have a backup bug in 6.10.4 but that is for rsync jobs. Haven't heard that Windows Timestamp jobs are affected...

 

Might actually still be interesting to see a network capture of this anyway. I am intrigued now 🙂 I will throw you a PM for capturing this.

Former Netgear employee. Views and opinions are my own.
Message 19 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

I did a little more investigation on what's going on.

 

I monitored one of the files that was being copied to the NAS in the backup job.  The previous backup job the file size was (Zero)

I manually copied the file from the Server to the NAS and the file had the correct size 1.2Mb.  I then ran the job again.  After the job ran, the file size when back to (Zero).  I then modified the file on the server and saved it again and let the job run again.  after the backup job was complete the file size on the NAS is showing correctly and the file is not corrupt.

 

I am starting to thing that the Time Stamp verification to indicated if the file is new or not is not working correctly in the latest version of the firmware.  Next I am going to try to change the settings on the backup to look for the Archive bit instead.  I will then do  mass change to the of the folders on the server to make sure that all the files in the folder are set with the correct attributes to trigger the backup.

Message 20 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

So after this test I get a copy error on the new backup job that is looking for the archive bit attirbute.

 

Backup Job Name: CAD
Backup Job Type: Full
Protocol: cifs-ab
Backup Source: [remote:cifs-ab]///xxxxxxxxx/cadd
Backup Destination: [CAD]/
Backup Start Time: Wed Apr 14 2021 1:01:45 PM
Backup Finish Time: Wed Apr 14 2021 1:05:49 PM
Backup Status: Fail: Failure during copy.

Message 21 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Ran the same backup job a 2nd time and it ran just fine. see images below.   You can see the temp files in the bottom of the folder sturctute on the NAS side had a Zeor file size.  changeing to a Archive bit did allow the files to get copied correctly.  I will be tring this on a larger share overnight and see if Iget the same results. 

Message 22 of 26
rn_enthusiast
Virtuoso

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Hi @Jeff_Howard_sps 

 

Apologies I didn't get back to you in PM. Work was super busy!!

Well, if Archive bit works then lets use that. Try and do a larger test-sample yes - over night and let us know.

Former Netgear employee. Views and opinions are my own.
Message 23 of 26

Re: Zero file size documents in backups

Nope, still an issue with the Arcive Bit method too.

 

I am reverting back to FW 6.10.3 and see if that works.

Message 24 of 26
StephenB
Guru

Re: Zero file size documents in backups


@Jeff_Howard_sps wrote:

Nope, still an issue with the Arcive Bit method too.

 


It might be quicker to install free backup software on the PC, and switch to that.

Message 25 of 26
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