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Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Silhyboy1
Tutor

Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Opinions matter, please share yours.

I have a split level house (4 levels) 80' × 50'. I have used many wifi setups over the last 15 years and my current setup has been working, but now that the house, my kids and wife use multiple devices (normally 35, can be as many as 55), i need to look at a better system.

I use a firewall (yes they still exist) downstream of my x cable modem with 800Mbps. That goes to a wired 16p router running DHCP (like I said, lots of devices) and from there to my 8500, an N300 (because the 8500 can not be seen by my HP printers) and 4 additional 5 and 8 port switches.

It is a nightmare when my kids friends or family come over and connect their devices obviously. I do use my 5ghz networks where I can, but for some reason, my house has always given connectivity issues (slow performance, poor connection, drop outs) no matter where I have placed the router.

If anyone wants to throw their hat in this ring and offer some advice (other than use less devices or change house) I would love to try and find something much much easier to deal with.

Thanks for reading my mental worm..;)
Model: R8500|Nighthawk X8 Tri-Band AC5300 WiFi Router, WNR2000|Wireless-N Router
Message 1 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

One possible suggestion would be to add a EX8000 wifi extender to your home to help off load the additional devices being connected. 

 

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 2 of 18
plemans
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

The R8500 is a pretty solid router. 

the N300, not so much. 

Are you using the same ssid with the N300 as you are the R8500?

Are you using smart connect on the R8500?

If so, I'd recommend disabling it and setting your devices to a specific band. 

 

You put your home is 80x50 with 4 levels but split. Are you saying its square footage is 16,000 sqft (50x80x4 levels) or half of that at 8,000sqft (50x80 x2 because of split level)?

Either one of them is a huge home. 

Even the orbi setups take multiple satellites with homes that large. 

https://kb.netgear.com/000060584/Which-Orbi-WiFi-System-is-best-for-me

 

so how big is the home? 

What are the interior walls made of? 

 

 

Current setup: CM2000-> RBKE963B-> Trendnet TEG-S380-> GS716T-> pi-hole
also in AP setup: RAXE500->EAX80
1.4gig download/50mbps upload from Xfinity
We’re members of the public helping out on our own time.
Message 3 of 18
Silhyboy1
Tutor

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

So... add ANOTHER wifi network... lol... my poor brain wants to simplify my rig, not make it harder to keep track of.. lol. 😉 And yes, this is all light hearted spitballing. 🙂
Message 4 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Kinda, however you would not see the additional network, would all still be the same SSID name. The Extender would just repeat or extend the current routers wifi signal to other parts of the home and devices would connect to this EX unit instead of the R8500 router. Help off load devices and connections from the router to give some work load to the EX extender. 

https://kb.netgear.com/000046083/How-is-a-Nighthawk-Tri-Band-WiFi-Mesh-Range-Extender-different-from...

 


@Silhyboy1 wrote:
So... add ANOTHER wifi network... lol... my poor brain wants to simplify my rig, not make it harder to keep track of.. lol. 😉 And yes, this is all light hearted spitballing. 🙂

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 5 of 18
Silhyboy1
Tutor

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Asking about square footage tells me you have no idea what a split level house is...The footprint of the house on the ground is 80x50 approximatly. Split level means that it is 4 half size stories (approximately 40x50each). Make 1 story a garage and 1 a basement and there ya go. Roughly 2000 sqft living space. Square footage
REALLY isn't a good metric anyway to guestimate a radio signal strength. As for building material, its your normal run of the mill drywall on wood construction, but because of the split level architecture, double the amount of walls between any radio and target (wall and possibly a floor or 2).
It has made it very challenging to cover.

As for the routers. The N300 is strictly a print server for some HP network capable printers and 3 NAS drives since I only had 1 rj45 available in that room and has its own ssid and is wired lan to lan.
The 8500 is centrally located and is also wired lan to lan. I never used the smart connect. I did try it when I first got the router, but found it would jump bands with connection lag for absolutely no discernable reason so it got turned off... lol
Message 6 of 18
Silhyboy1
Tutor

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Adding an extender is an idea that i have toyed with, but it asks the question, would taking a step into a mesh rig be the right idea? Im not up to speed with the current security software built in to them, but am reading up... i dunno, thus why im asking for opinions. 🙂
Message 7 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Extender would be something to try since you already have a router. 

 

MESH could be something to review as well. I'd find a retail store that has a good refund policy in case something doesn't go well if you choose to try something. 

MK Nighthawk MESH systems:

https://www.netgear.com/support/product/nighthawk-mesh.aspx

 

Orbi systems:

https://www.netgear.com/home/wifi/mesh/find-my-orbi/

 

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 8 of 18
plemans
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500


@Silhyboy1 wrote:
Asking about square footage tells me you have no idea what a split level house is...The footprint of the house on the ground is 80x50 approximatly. Split level means that it is 4 half size stories (approximately 40x50each). Make 1 story a garage and 1 a basement and there ya go. Roughly 2000 sqft living space. Square footage


I do know what split level is, its why i was questioning your numbers as thats a large home.

40x50=2000 sq ft. for each "half story". And you have 4 of them per your post. That'd be 8000sqft. 

Thats why I'm questioning those numbers. 

Even if your looking at that wrong and its half of that, 4000sq ft is a large home as well. I've got a 3200sq ft home and with an Orbi AC system, I use a router and 2 satellites. With an Orbi AX, i use a router and one satellites.

Its why I'm trying to clarify. 

Plus the layout is key. If you're at the 4000sq ft size but the router is at one end of the home, half the signal doesn't cover the home because the signal is omnidirectional.  Its why we recommend centrally locating routers. Even centrally located, a single router would struggle to cover 4000sqft. 

 

So how much actual footage is the home? And where is the router located? 

Current setup: CM2000-> RBKE963B-> Trendnet TEG-S380-> GS716T-> pi-hole
also in AP setup: RAXE500->EAX80
1.4gig download/50mbps upload from Xfinity
We’re members of the public helping out on our own time.
Message 9 of 18
Silhyboy1
Tutor

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Laugh.. thanks for the lesson... too bad we dont just use wifi inside our boxes.. it would be so much easier... 😉


Anyway, usable square footage (according to my tax bill) is 1723sqft. Its across a lower level rumpus room, office, stairs, storage, utility and bath rooms. Above this is kitchen, dining, foyer, laundry (where i currently have my 8500 as it is central to the width of the house) stairs and storage. In between these two floors is the extended 3 car garage and above the garage is 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and lots of closet space. I was just using rough measurements that i used for a gas line and concrete pad projects and guessing. I just measured it and one side is 30x29 and the other is 32x25 so 2470 sqft living space and 870sqft of garage.

Is that better? I always found that when figuring these types of things out, always estimate high so there isnt an issue down the road, but if you sounded like you wanted my correct dimensions.

I just need to cover 2400ish sqft Minimum across 2 stories at a minimum end distance of 50 feet from center. Reading further into the data hogging the orbis use, im really not even sure thats the way i want to go anyway. Thus why im asking for opinions, not black and white...
Message 10 of 18
plemans
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Thanks for the clarifying. It does help. theres a significan different from 2400 to 4000sq ft. 

I'd still consider the orbi triband or MK series (mk80 version). Especially if you're needing/wanting to use an extender. I'm not a huge fan of single or dual band extenders. They're performance isn't that great. Usually you can get a full mesh system for cheaper than you can a router + decent extender. The tribands are better but you still only want to stick with one of those. If you're needing more than 1, a mesh system is the way to go. 

 

with your setup, this would let you put the router (or satellite) on one side of the home and the other satellite (or router) on the otherside. That would let you cover the home and get some overlap with the garage. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about data hogging. I've used several different mesh systems (including orbi) and haven't noticed any "data hogging" issues. 

 

 

 

Current setup: CM2000-> RBKE963B-> Trendnet TEG-S380-> GS716T-> pi-hole
also in AP setup: RAXE500->EAX80
1.4gig download/50mbps upload from Xfinity
We’re members of the public helping out on our own time.
Message 11 of 18
Silhyboy1
Tutor

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

If you just search orbi and data, there are hundreds of articles from users all having the same issues of it constantly sending and recieving packets with not one device attached. Lots of fixes, but most of those are out of my knowledgesphere... just not totally sold on something that talks online when i dont want it to... just sayin...

Anyway, im now looking at some of the other mesh rigs out there in hopes a lightbulb goes off and i get it. Knowledge is a key, but i need to find the right door first.
Message 12 of 18
plemans
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

With a lot of the companies moving to their mesh routers connecting to alexa, auto updating, using some types of securitys, pretty much all of them are going to be "phoning home" quite regularly. Even some of the base models do that as they auto-check on updates, update times, etc

If it bothers you, you could use something like a pi-hole and block those requests. 

Current setup: CM2000-> RBKE963B-> Trendnet TEG-S380-> GS716T-> pi-hole
also in AP setup: RAXE500->EAX80
1.4gig download/50mbps upload from Xfinity
We’re members of the public helping out on our own time.
Message 13 of 18

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Greetings,

I'm also a fan of the newest mesh systems.

 

If you go Pro - Meraki or FortiNet is hard to beat

Prosumer - Ubiquiti, but they have very little in stock right now

 

Consumer stuff

Newest Orbi's aren't bad

Also recommend you check out the Asus Zen Wi-Fi

The XT8, XT9, XT12 or any of the E series if you want/need 6e capability.  Any of these used with a wired backhaul perform extremely well.  The 12's might not be available in the US (yet)

 

~Comcast 1 Gbps/50 Mbps SB8200 > R8000P
~R8000P FW:1.4.1.68 ~R7000 FW:1.0.9.42
~R6400 FW:1.0.1.52 ~Orbi-AC3000 FW:2.5.1.8
~EX3700 FW:1.0.0.84

Message 14 of 18
Silhyboy1
Tutor

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Mr. Plemans

Yeah, saddly, it should not come down to having to add yet another piece to an already crazy puzzle. Not only the NG engineers, but all hardware makers should just stop all the "phone home" crap. Some reports from Orbi users place it's "phone home" checks at over 2.5GB/hr... yeah... no thanks. Even with a pi, that is still traffic on my network that is just not needed.

In the past, I have used Ubiquity stuff and yes, their interfaces can be daunting, but they work and they work very well.

As a bit of a jest, in regards to the Orbi users' im seeing 3 groups. 1. Users who have unlimited up/down who love it, 2. Power users who have limits but enough technical knowledge to make things like the Pi-hole, and 3. Users like myself who just dont like something chatting on my network like a teenager in heat that I have no control of. Lol

Still researching... 😉
Message 15 of 18
plemans
Guru

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

2.5gb per hour? Geez, thats around 1.8TB a month. Thats the equivent of an HD show running in the background continuous. 

 

I have used the RBK40, RBK50, SXK30, and RBK750 from netgear.

I'm on a data cap so track data usage pretty closely and none that I've used came anywhere close to that. 

Not calling you a liar, just saying I'd be betting on something else going on in those situations to be using that much data. 

 

You do need to take the forums with a grain of salt as the users on here, are the ones with issues/problems. You'll find issues on all the makers forums because thats what they're for. 

 

I'd recommend reading a few reviews/tests to see how they perform and look at the forums just for an idea of support/help that they have. Again, all you'll find is issues because thats what its for but at least you have a rough idea what they are. 

 

I used to use smallnetbuilder for a lot of reviews that were pretty legit but they haven't been doing as many reviews as they used to. 

 

Like @shadowsports says, most of the business/prosumer devices are pretty solid in performance and stability. I haven't used many of them but I've heard great things about them. 

 

 

Current setup: CM2000-> RBKE963B-> Trendnet TEG-S380-> GS716T-> pi-hole
also in AP setup: RAXE500->EAX80
1.4gig download/50mbps upload from Xfinity
We’re members of the public helping out on our own time.
Message 16 of 18
Silhyboy1
Tutor

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

Lol... yeah, a solution forum like this DOES have it's inherent share of "not my mistake" individuals. And any open public forum is full of "my way is right" folks... i always do my due diligence and source info from many places. I will say i hate the fact that even the "consumer groups" have been showing their fair share of bought reviews. So much so that i really just glance at their suggestions on many items and pay them no mind in my final decisions. At least in the past, their bought reviews sounded plausible, now, not so much... lol

As for the mesh stuff, i like the idea of opposite ends, but probably will go overkill and add a 3rd. As for manufacture, i am reading up on them as time allows.
Message 17 of 18
TheGaryB70
Aspirant

Re: Looking for Upgrade advice from R8500

I have been using EX8000 in conjunction with R8500 for past couple years. FTP and average down speeds of 360MB. Extender is in room above (wireless connection) and getting speeds averaging 150MB.

Considering adding another EX8000 for access in a new workspace in my garden. Recommended.
Message 18 of 18
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