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EruvWeather, TheEther, guys, this is driving me nuts...
As it stands NOW my wife's PC continues to have NET VIEW work properly, and has since I did a clean install of her X64 W10 Pro Ver. 1709. On the other hand mine will only work IF I reboot the Router and her PC is not on. Once her's comes on, it no longer works, and will never work again until I reboot the router.
I opened the POWERSHELL on both PC's and ran "get-smbserverconfiguration" and compared results.
Interesting, on mine EnableSMB1Protocol is set to True, but on her's, it is set to False?
Checking Features installed I have SMB1 Server checked where her's has Client checked?
Odd, what do you have?
I've set mine to Client now but need to re-boot. Will update when I come back on.
EDIT:
FIXED IT!!!!
GET-SMBSERVERCONFIGURATION now matches her's and it WORKS as expected!!!
C:\>net view
Server Name Remark
---------------------------------------------
\\IRV8700 Irv's 8700
\\LARAINE-XPS8500 Laraine's XPS8500
\\READYSHARE readyshare
The command completed successfully.
I don't KNOW how my SMB1 features were set or when, or even why.
Suspect at this point a change happened during one of MS's Updates?
Searching the web I found this page, https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1995592-disabling-smb1-stops-domain-authentication marked SOLVED.... in it:
-------------
Did you try just disabling smbv1 and not actually removing the windowsfeature?
edit: by running this command in an elevated powershell prompt:
Set-SmbServerConfiguration -EnableSMB1Protocol $false
---------------------
Wonder if I did that it would have fixed it as well?
EruvWeathergive this a try... might just work!
TheEther wrote:
Ignore the ARP for 192.168.1.6 for now. It's a red herring.
NET_VIEW.JPG doesn't work. All I see is a tiny white square. Did you attach the right file?
Did you post Wireshark capture file somewhere? I don't see it.
You have to D/L the file and change .jpg to .pcapng, then it will work by double clicking on it wherever you did the D/L to. Worked for me when I tested it.
Oh, sorry. Ok, I can view it with Wireshark.
AFAICT, I can see standard NetBios Queries and responses. I also see a successful connection to READYSHARE. So, it looks good there.
I also see LLMNR queries, but no responses. As I mentioned earlier, LLMNR is kind of dead, so it's no great surprise that the router is ignoring them. Nor is there any harm.
The next bit is where NET VIEW comes into play. For reference, these two articles are pretty good at describing how the Windows Computer Browser service works:
Name Resolution and Browsing (look for Browsing in a Windows Network)
How Computer Browser Service Works
In the packet capture, you can see packets 56 and 58 are Computer Browser Service packets. Packet 56 is a Get Backup List Request from 192.168.1.30. This is a request to find a server that can provide the list of Windows servers on the network. Packet 58 contains a Get Backup List response from the Netgear, stating that READYSHARE is a server.
Now, it's my understanding that what should happen next is that 192.168.1.30 should contact the server (in this case READYSHARE) and ask for the list of Windows servers via a NetServerEnum request. It appears that 192.168.1.30 never does this. This might explain why the NET VIEW command is returning nothing. The command has nothing to display because the computer never sent a NetServerEnum request. Why? I don't know.
Anyway, it looks like the Computer Browser Service operates on 12 minute cycles. That is, every 12 minutes computers that have File Sharing enabled will announce their presence. You could run Wireshare through an entire 12 minute cycle and see what happens, although I'm not sure if a whole lot will be learned from it.
Both of my Win10 systems are up to v1709. The one with the issue is hard-wired into the router, the one not exhibiting the issue is connecting via WiFi on the 5GHz network.
Looking at that stuff and I almost get the feeling that there is a MASTER BROWSER problem? Look at https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/bd0af6aa-51ec-477a-8c81-888a4e60bd94/master-browser-service-broken-after-creator-update?forum=win10itpronetworking, and from the 2nd post:
===
Hi,
As I understand it, the issue you are experiencing is: After Creator Update, Windows 10 cannot use "net view" to list other computers but itself. And only Master Browser server can list all computers.
1.In “Network and Sharing Center”, click “Change Advanced sharing settings”, turn on “network discovery”
2.In “Network and Sharing Center”, click “Change Adapter Settings”, go to NIC Properties\IPv4 Properties\Advenced\Wins tab, select “Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP”
3.In Services console, ensure “Computer Browser” and “Workstation” services are running
4.Run “regedit” to open Registry Editor, navigate to “\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services \Browser\Parameters”, ensure the “MaintainServerList” is set to Yes or Auto
5.In the same location of registry, ensure that at least one computer in each subnet, has the “IsDomainMaster” REG_SZ key set as True.
After that, please wait for about 12 minutes and try “net view” again on these Windows 10 computers.
Also, please open the Network in Explorer, and check if computers will be listed in Network.
Hope it will be helpful to you
===========
Step #5 I don't have?
I did an NBTSTAT on READYSHARE
=========
C:\>nbtstat -a readyshare
Ethernet:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.30] Scope Id: []
NetBIOS Remote Machine
Name Table Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
READYSHARE -00- UNIQUE Registered
READYSHARE -03- UNIQUE Registered
READYSHARE -20- UNIQUE Registered
☺☻__MSBROWSE__☻ -01- GROUP Registered
HOME -00- GROUP Registered
HOME -1D- UNIQUE Registered
HOME -1E- GROUP Registered
MAC Address = 00-00-00-00-00-00
===========
It pointed to my PC? Further more, I found this digging through some links, https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/e105ef02-962e-437f-aaf3-ad3b533571fb/master-browser-not-working-for-non-windows-devices-in-build-1709-and-1703?forum=win10itpronetworking, which basically says Master Browser is NOT working (end of thread). Same link, post on Saturday, October 28, 2017 6:27 AM shows that the IsDomainMaster IS needed, so I added it.
I see packet 56 and 58, but the REAL question I have is 'WHO IS' Readyshare? See the NBTSTAT above, 192.168.1.30?
I ran a few NBTSTATS:
==========
C:\>nbtstat -a 192.168.1.1
Ethernet:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.30] Scope Id: []
NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table
Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
READYSHARE <00> UNIQUE Registered
READYSHARE <03> UNIQUE Registered
READYSHARE <20> UNIQUE Registered
☺☻__MSBROWSE__☻<01> GROUP Registered
HOME <00> GROUP Registered
HOME <1D> UNIQUE Registered
HOME <1E> GROUP Registered
MAC Address = 00-00-00-00-00-00
Bluetooth Network Connection:
Node IpAddress: [0.0.0.0] Scope Id: []
Host not found.
C:\>nbtstat -a readyshare
Ethernet:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.30] Scope Id: []
NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table
Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
READYSHARE <00> UNIQUE Registered
READYSHARE <03> UNIQUE Registered
READYSHARE <20> UNIQUE Registered
☺☻__MSBROWSE__☻<01> GROUP Registered
HOME <00> GROUP Registered
HOME <1D> UNIQUE Registered
HOME <1E> GROUP Registered
MAC Address = 00-00-00-00-00-00
Bluetooth Network Connection:
Node IpAddress: [0.0.0.0] Scope Id: []
Host not found.
C:\>nbtstat -a irv8700
Ethernet:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.30] Scope Id: []
Host not found.
Bluetooth Network Connection:
Node IpAddress: [0.0.0.0] Scope Id: []
Host not found.
============
They ALL except the last now point back to my PC, 192,168.1.30? Guess what, NET VIEW now returns the 1231 error? Looks like my PC is the Master Browser and hasn't got one as far as it thinks?
Very confused here, W10 bug???
IrvSp wrote:
Looking at that stuff and I almost get the feeling that there is a MASTER BROWSER problem? Look at https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/bd0af6aa-51ec-477a-8c81-888a4e60bd94/master-browser-service-broken-after-creator-update?forum=win10itpronetworking, and from the 2nd post:
Further down in that thread, I found something that appears to explain it all.
SMB 1.0 is being discontinued or "deprecated". Totally reasonable, improves security.
The Computer Browser service is dependant on SMB 1.0, Microsoft have decided to remove the service rather than upgrade Computer Browser so the functionality remains. The result being Network Neighbourhood browsing is gone for Workgroups and users cannot so easily ascertain which PCs are available in the Workgroup.
So, there you have it. Network browsing is dead. And means NET VIEW, too.
TheEther wrote:
IrvSp wrote:
Looking at that stuff and I almost get the feeling that there is a MASTER BROWSER problem? Look at https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/bd0af6aa-51ec-477a-8c81-888a4e60bd94/master-browser-service-broken-after-creator-update?forum=win10itpronetworking, and from the 2nd post:
Further down in that thread, I found something that appears to explain it all.
SMB 1.0 is being discontinued or "deprecated". Totally reasonable, improves security.
The Computer Browser service is dependant on SMB 1.0, Microsoft have decided to remove the service rather than upgrade Computer Browser so the functionality remains. The result being Network Neighbourhood browsing is gone for Workgroups and users cannot so easily ascertain which PCs are available in the Workgroup.
So, there you have it. Network browsing is dead. And means NET VIEW, too.
It can't be dead. Otherwise why would it work sometimes? Also part of it is still installed. On the Control Panel, Programs and Features, Turn Windows Features on or Off, there is SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support. 2 of the 3 parts are enabled, the Automatic Removal and the Server. h Client is NOT installed (by default). So I'd think some of it does work?
Unfortunately, just like people having V1.0.9.14 problems and reporting it here with a variety of 'fixes', one can't be totally sure? Other than NEW VIEW I've not had any problems I'd associate with that firmware. The complaint level might be high about it, but we just don't know the percentage of users with the problems that are real and not caused other factors?
IrvSp wrote:
It can't be dead. Otherwise why would it work sometimes? Also part of it is still installed. On the Control Panel, Programs and Features, Turn Windows Features on or Off, there is SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support. 2 of the 3 parts are enabled, the Automatic Removal and the Server. h Client is NOT installed (by default). So I'd think some of it does work?
I think this is answered elsewhere in that Microsoft thread:
If I set any other PC to be the master browser, windows version irrelevant other than not 1703, then all the computers can run "Net View" and return the list of computers (hence a bunch of other network commands work).
My guess is that things work whenever your Netgear is the master browser. If either of your two W10 PCs are the master browser, then it doesn't work.
In any case, the writing is on the wall. Stop using NET VIEW. Maybe you can eke a little more use out of it, but its days are numbered, if not already passed.
The MS articles you cited ... I came across those about a month ago when I was first trying to unravel this issue. The depreciation of SMB 1.0 is a tantalizing clue, but the other Win10 Pro machine on our network is not exhibiting the same behavior, so that does not necessarily align.
Network discovery, etc. is already up and running on the machine in question, otherwise I would not even be able to connect to readyshare or other network shares.
Interesting clues for me include the following:
1) In the Windows Exporer "network" list, other computers show up, but not readyshare or the printers,
2) If I click on network within Windows Explorer, the other computers do show up, and the printers are there under "printers, scanners," etc.
3) I can access readyshare by entering \\readyshare in the address of explorer. At first, I get a a "windows cannot access ... bad address or issue with network ... do you want to diagnose network issues" box. However, if I wait between 15 and 30 seconds, and try to access readyshare again, it is fully accessable. Also, if I do "diagnose" network issues, none are found ... but after the process of "diagnosing," readyshare is accessable (but never shows up in the Network places list).
3a) While the above is true now ... the 15-30 second delay used to be true for the other computer I access files from for awhile, but seems to have gone away. After the router update from .14 to .18, the computer in question did not show itself (!) in the network list until I changed Function Discovery Resource Publcation from "manual" to "automatic." That is the only tweak I have made thus far, in order to not make the situation potentially worse. Another tantalizing clue, but it clearly has not resolved the larger issue.
4) Despite the above, printing to/scanning from network printers works just fine and as expected.
I have tried to research how to manually make the R7000 the master browser, but have not found any clues of how to do that.
This seems like some combination of W10 not using SMB 1.0 anymore, and a master browser issue ... but not consistent from system to system.
So at this point - it is "cosemtic" in that I can still do and get to everything I need, but some cache somewhere is not being updated and I do not know how to force a refresh.
EruvWeather wrote:I have tried to research how to manually make the R7000 the master browser, but have not found any clues of how to do that.
Look here, https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc959923.aspx for details. The Registry for W10 should have the MaintainServerList already set to yes. If you REALLY want to force it, then add IsDomainMaster to the registry subkey. I did that and it made no difference so I removed it.
Don't think the R7000's OS is exposed and you can't make it the Master Browser.
TheEther wrote:
My guess is that things work whenever your Netgear is the master browser. If either of your two W10 PCs are the master browser, then it doesn't work.
Not sure the R7000 ever became the Master Browser? If it could then not other would become the Master Browser. W10's default it not to become one, see (https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc959923.aspx) as the default it not to take over that function if one exists. My default is yes. That link doesn't call out W10, but it appears to apply. This is the YES function:
==========
This value makes the computer a browser. Upon startup, the computer attempts to contact the master browser to get a current browse list. If the master browser cannot be found, the computer will force a browser election. The computer will either be elected master browser or become a backup browser.
===========
As I read it, the W10 on boot will look for the master browser. If none there it becomes it, otherwise it is the backup (should the 'real' master browser go down, like another PC on the LAN). So in essence, the PC's will all get the current Browse list from the R7000 (I assume). Once the function fails on the R7000, the first booted W10 and still on-line will become the Master Browser. I think that sort of explains a lot too. Remember when my NET VIEW's came back instantly? Yet my wife's PC got the 1231 error? Her PC did not get the list because my PC was the backup when she booted (I suspect). With the R7000 still thinking it was the Master Browser but not functioning, her PC came back with the 1231 error. My PC since it was a backup Master Browser and had the 'current' list showed that. Again, just my logical conclusion for the problem. Also, adding to that and supporting it, once I rebooted the next morning after shutting down with NET VIEW working fine, I too got the 1231 error, why, because at that time the R7000 which had been on all night, on the PC boot it could NOT get the list from the R7000, so my PC gave out the 1231 error.
Now maybe my logic is unfounded and false, but that if correct points back to the R7000 as the cause of the problem.
Too many people must be using the Windows Explorer's Navigation pane's NETWORK to see shares and folders so they could copy files from a drive to the USB drive on the Router. It uses the SAME NEW VIEW type function. If that didn't work in W10 the noise level would be terrible. That said, that Explorer expansion of NETWORK would still work even with the R7000 not able to supply data, it just takes longer to open up. So I guess if there wasn't a need to move files from the PC to a USB drive location on the R7000 (or possibly other routers) no one would be complaining?
I agree that it is most likely something related to a bug in the R7000 firmware, and you explanation makes sense to me based on my research/experience. The symptoms first appearaed after I upgraed from 1.0.7.10 to 1.0.9.14 (skipped the interim builds due to another readyshare issue that was introduced with 1.0.7.12). While I cannot reproduce this on other systems -- I *have* seen other complaints about this type of issue on W10 after the Fall Creators Update. The missing link in all those posts was no one was talking about which router they were using. Is it possible the firmware on the R7000 is not fully compatabile with SMB 2/3?
Regardless, thank you for your post. At least there is the cold comfort that it is not something I did "wrong." ;-). A friend of mine in IT who specializes in networking was also stumpped. He basically said, since I can get to network shares without too much trouble, that it was not worth too much more trouble shooting time (this was after several weeks of my trying to figure it out). His guess is, there will be a future firmware and/or W10 update after which the problem will magically disappear (or get worse).
Hopefully someone from Netgear will chime in here. I am guessing the lack of mainstream complaints is because the vast majority of home users don't exchange files between computers, and those on business networks have IT folks who are doing the complaining and/or have their networks setup on a domain, etc. where the setup would be different. Also, as noted ... the other computers on my network are showing up in the Explorer list, so the average user might not notice that the printers are missing (why would they care?) from the list. Each example of this issue has somewhat different manifestations, which of course, makes it that much harder to nail down the issue.
