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Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@EruvWeather, @TheEther, OK, I was looking at my Event Log today.. found a lot of these:
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Log Name: System Source: BROWSER Date: 1/8/2018 3:53:13 PM Event ID: 8021 Task Category: None Level: Warning Keywords: Classic User: N/A Computer: Irv8700 Description: The browser service was unable to retrieve a list of servers from the browser master \\READYSHARE on the network \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{2EDDE305-16D3-4D87-B966-F36037B37451}.
This event may be caused by a temporary loss of network connectivity. If this message appears again, verify that the server is still connected to the network. The return code is in the Data text box. Event Xml: <Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event"> <System> <Provider Name="BROWSER" /> <EventID Qualifiers="32768">8021</EventID> <Level>3</Level> <Task>0</Task> <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords> <TimeCreated SystemTime="2018-01-08T20:53:13.677274700Z" /> <EventRecordID>21945</EventRecordID> <Channel>System</Channel> <Computer>Irv8700</Computer> <Security /> </System> <EventData> <Data>\\READYSHARE</Data> <Data>\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{2EDDE305-16D3-4D87-B966-F36037B37451}</Data> <Binary>CF040000</Binary> </EventData> </Event>
===========
This was happening as I was opening Explorer++. Guess we know who the Win10 PC thought was the MB. This is probably because the READYSHARE share isn't seen in Network.
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@IrvSp... I do not use Explorer++, but have not seen any issues in the Event Log such as you reported.
One thing I did notice yesterday ...
The other W10 computer that does not manifest this issue is connecting to the network on my 2.4GHz band, which has a slightly different SSID than the 5GHz band.
The Win10 system that is experience the issue is connected via Ethernet, but the Network name is reflecting the 5GHz band name. Whereas, my Win7 system reflects the name I assigned to it. This is probably a dead-end, but interesting none-the-less.
I may try to disconnect the Ethernet and connect via the 2.4GHz WiFi just to eliminate any chance of some voodoo here.
Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@IrvSpI have read a pleathora of articles, these three were new to me, so thanks for sharing. All are tantalizing, and at least reassuring the we are not alone. One thing is certain, tracking down the exact cause on a given system is seemingly impossible. One thing I will check later today, is if SMBv1 is still active on my other Win10 system where the issue is not manifesting.
Perhaps the scheduled removal of SMB1 has not yet taken place on that system.
Even if so, I would be hesitant to re-enable due to security issues (the cure perhaps being worse than the disease).
Clearly, there is some combination of Windows networking updates, the router employed, specific network configuration, and specific system settings that are at play here. I am guessing the issue with the R7000 does have something to do with SMB1 being supported, but perhaps not later versions. Regardless, this is clearly a fairly widespread issue, and therefore, Microsoft may be the primary culprit.
Agree with you also --- since I already have a USB drive attached, that is likely not going to solve the issue. FWIW ... I shut down our entire network every Friday evening (for Shabbat). I literally power down the modem, the router, etc. So, when I start up the next evening, the order is boot modem, boot router, power up readyshare drive, connect devices to WiFi. The only two devices that would connect immediately upon reboot are my two Amazon Fire TV sticks, but they are certainly not being assigned MB duties! (Also, I confirmed that "Readyshare"/router is the MB). The issue persists from network restart to network restart.
Keep me posted if you learn anything more. I will do likewise!
Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@EruvWeather, check your EVENT VIEWER, under Warnings, on the first PC powering up, it should try to become the Master Browser. It should be there under BROWSER in the WARNINGS. Error ID:8021.
My PC that is failing is hard wired, Win10 x64 Home 1709 version. The other PC is my wife's wireless Netgear AC1200 adapter on the 5Ghz SSID, W10 Pro x64 1709, but it rarely gets powered up before mine. Her PC gets the 1231 error as well. There was a period of time when it would work fine with NET VIEW and my PC didn't, however not both report the 1231 error.
However her Error is slightly different from mine in the Event Viewer:
==========
The description for Event ID 8021 from source BROWSER cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted. You can install or repair the component on the local computer.
If the event originated on another computer, the display information had to be saved with the event.
The following information was included with the event:
Now this was on her PC, and points back to my PC IRV8700, which pointed back to READYSHARE...
I suspect that at one point her PC was the MB when everything was working fine. At some point in time, her PC was not the BACKUP MB and that is when it started to get the 1231 error? Right before the warning in her PC she got an 8032 Information entry (under the Windows Logs, System).
Googling any strings in either 8021 or 8032 really doesn't fine much, certainly not new, other than how to shutoff the PC from becoming the MB?
@IrvSp... I do not use Explorer++, but have not seen any issues in the Event Log such as you reported.
Doesn't have to be Explorer++, Windows Explorer should do the same. What I was 'saying' was that was the time I opened Explorer++ and selected NETWORK, and that generated the error. Same should happen if you open Windows Explorer and select Network. That is when the request is made to read the data in the MB.
@IrvSpI have read a pleathora of articles, these three were new to me, so thanks for sharing. All are tantalizing, and at least reassuring the we are not alone. One thing is certain, tracking down the exact cause on a given system is seemingly impossible. One thing I will check later today, is if SMBv1 is still active on my other Win10 system where the issue is not manifesting.
Perhaps the scheduled removal of SMB1 has not yet taken place on that system.
No, the SMB1 I think is a red herring here. First of all SOME SMB1 stuff is still enabled on W10. If you go to Control Panel, Programs and Features, and on the left select Turn Windows Features on or off, and scroll down to SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support, you'll see ONLY yhe SMB 1.0/CIFS Client is not installed. The other 2 parts are installed.
This would only effect SMB 1.0 network devices anyway I think?
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
EruvWeather wrote:I shut down our entire network every Friday evening (for Shabbat). I literally power down the modem, the router, etc. So, when I start up the next evening, the order is boot modem, boot router, power up readyshare drive, connect devices to WiFi. The only two devices that would connect immediately upon reboot are my two Amazon Fire TV sticks, but they are certainly not being assigned MB duties! (Also, I confirmed that "Readyshare"/router is the MB). The issue persists from network restart to network restart.
Keep me posted if you learn anything more. I will do likewise!
Are you saying after the reboot of all parts (in the correct order) that NET VIEW still gives the 1231 error? I found that rebooting the router alone 'repairs' everything and until that READYSHARE share drops off the network it works fine. You should see the same working.
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@IrvSpI agree that SMB1 is likely not the issue. However, on my system, none of the SMB1.0 components are checked as installed. It is completely removed at this time.
Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
@IrvSp... I do not have the warning in the event log. I have checked 🙂
Have you opened Windows Explorer and selected Network to view contents of the network with NET VIEW failing with a 1231 error? If not, do that and then check the Event Viewer.
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@IrvSpYes ... I am saying after a complete network re-start, the issue remains ... regardless of what order I boot up various computers that connect to the network. I have tried booting the affected system first, last and everything in between!
@IrvSpI agree that SMB1 is likely not the issue. However, on my system, none of the SMB1.0 components are checked as installed. It is completely removed at this time.
Hmm, wonder why 2 parts are on in mine? Hmm, checked wife's PC, her's are ALL off?
Shouldn't matter but I wonder why mine are on? Possibly some other s/w I'm running? We've got the same Internet Security Suite, Norton's, but at one point I did have McAfee? My PC is newer even, and we both came from W8.1? Her's is also a Dell and Dell says her PC isn't supported for W10 but it works fine?
@IrvSp... I do not have the warning in the event log. I have checked 🙂
Have you opened Windows Explorer and selected Network to view contents of the network with NET VIEW failing with a 1231 error? If not, do that and then check the Event Viewer.
I have, and do not have the same warning that you are getting ...
Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
@IrvSpYes ... I am saying after a complete network re-start, the issue remains ... regardless of what order I boot up various computers that connect to the network. I have tried booting the affected system first, last and everything in between!
This is strange... I haven't rebooted the router for awhile. Matter of fact, when I started to look at when I first got the error it was 1/2/18, none before that? I know around that time I was trying a bunch of different flashes from V1.0.9.6 up?
Actually from my 1/2/2018 log:
=============
[Time synchronized with NTP server] Monday, Jan 01,2018 08:23:14
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.2)] to MAC address 10:AE:60:57:25:06, Monday, Dec 18,2017 07:53:02
[Internet connected] IP address: 67.8.xx.xx, Monday, Dec 18,2017 07:53:02
[USB device attached] The USB storage device WD 10EADS External (USB_ROUTER) is attached to the router, Monday, Dec 18,2017 07:53:02
[Internet disconnected] Monday, Dec 18,2017 07:53:01
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.30)] to MAC address F8:B1:56:DD:6A:5B, Monday, Dec 18,2017 07:53:01
[Initialized, firmware version: V1.0.9.20] Thursday, Jan 01,2015 00:00:08
========
Oddly enough, that Dec. 18, 2017 date is problem the build date of the flash. 192.168.1.30 is my PC that installed the flash. Not until the Time Sync happened was the time corrected. 192.168.1.2 was one of out iPads that auto-connected.
It seems since then I've been getting those error 8021 errors on every boot and trying to look at the network? Wife was getting the 8021 errirs much earlier than that? Possible on my PC the part of the error log was wiped out when I did the flash from my PC, but I doubt it?
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@IrvSpThis should prove very interesting: On my other Win10 system which is behaving as expected with regards to resolving the network: SMB1.0 is fully installed! It is Win10 x64 Pro 1709, full patched (including today's patches), and SMB 1.0 is checked, as are the thre sub-boxes!
So, I am debating whether to disable SMB 1.0 on that computer to see if the issue is replicated, or enable it on my mis-behaving system to see if the issue is rectified -- knowing it is a bit of a security risk. (On the misbehaving system, SMB 1.0 is completely disabled ... no check boxes checked.)
Not doing anything immediately - but this does point to SMB1.0 and the R7000 being co-culprits in this mess, and also is somewhat reassuring that Win10 is actually behaving "as designed" a/k/a it's a feature, not a bug ;-).
Will report back if I become brave enough to enable SMB 1.0 on the system in question.
... so based on this (and without having tested/confirmed myself, yet), I think the issue is that the R7000 is not fully compatible with non-SMB 1.0 machines.
Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
This is going to likely come down to weighing the security risk over the aesthetics of the Network places Explorer. Really leaning toward this being a SMB 1.0 issue and the R7000.
NETGEAR ... if anyone is reading this, some official insight would be beneficial.
Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
Greg Zoll Computer Browser is used for the Workgroups, because SMBv2 & 3 require that service to discover other shared or available devices on the Network. It has nothing to do about the Domain alone, since the Domain has to use SMB protocols.
A fix needs to be pushed when SMBv1 is removed through the next update cycle, that Computer Browser Service stays and is changed from Manual to Automatic. Also Windows needs to be able to figure out that when a SMB Share off of a Server or NAS is set as Master Browser, that Windows does not just give an error message. Windows needs to be able to find out that it is not the Master of the Workgroup or Domain and in Settings under Network.
Reply NedPyle [MSFT] When SMB1 is gone, there is nothing for Computer Browser to use as a transport – it relies on SMB1. The goal is not to make NetBIOS/bowser work if we care about security.
I rebooted the ROUTER with both PC's on. NET VIEW RESULTS....
Wife's PC gets 1231 error...
My PC:
=======
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.16299.192] (c) 2017 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\ispal_000>net view Server Name Remark
-------------------------------------------------------- \\IRV8700 Irv's 8700 \\READYSHARE readyshare The command completed successfully.
========
Before rebooting, error 1231...
Yes, my PC does have SMB1 Automatic Removal and Server, but NOT the Client running. Wife's PC has NONE running.
I'll buy the SMB 1.0 is needed, BUT I don't understand why is wasn't working until I rebooted the Router. Obviously somehow the router dropped communicating and exchanging the list of devices. I.E., a Netgear firmware bug. Matter of fact, if it needs SMB 1.0, that alone is a bug, no?
In the referenced link for MS some points are also interesting:
=========
Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Professional no longer contain the SMBv1 server by default after a clean installation.
=========
Both our machines came from Win8.1
=========
Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Professional still contain the SMBv1 client by default after a clean installation. If the SMBv1 client is not used for 15 days in total (excluding the computer being turned off), it automatically uninstalls itself.
=========
This probably explains why my PC doesn't have the Client, but I just PROVED the Client isn't needed to see the READYSHARE disk.
===========
In-place upgrades and Insider flights of Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Professional do not automatically remove SMB1 initially. If the SMBv1 client or server is not used for 15 days in total (excluding the time during which the computer is off), they each automatically uninstall themselves.
==========
Covers our PC case, but since I still have the Server installed I must be using it, if true?
==========
Because the Computer Browser service relies on SMBv1, the service is uninstalled if the SMBv1 client or server is uninstalled. This means that Explorer Network can no longer display Windows computers through the legacy NetBIOS datagram browsing method.
==========
No, this is NOT TRUE!!! First of all my COMPUTER BROWSER SERVICE IS running. Secondly, SMB 1.0 is NOT in the Dependency list. SMB 2.0 is.
Futhermore under Explorer Network Browsing on the link:
===============
However, if you still have to use the Explorer Network in home and small business workgroup environments to locate Windows-based computers, you can follow these steps on your Windows-based computers that no longer use SMBv1:
Start the "Function Discovery Provider Host" and "Function Discovery Resource Publication" services, and then set them to Automatic (Delayed Start).
When you open Explorer Network, enable network discovery when you are prompted.
===================
Both of those ARE running and set to AUTOMATIC??? No, I did not change them.
So I think there could be 2 or 3 problems here....
SMB 1.0 is programed into the NG R7000 Flash... they should NOT be doing this.
Win10 is killing SMB 1.0, and that causes problems with the R7000.
Somehow even with SMB 1.0 enabled on Win10, the R7000 drops reporting to the MB.
So I'm trying an EXPERIMENT. I have TURNED off the 2 existing SMB1 features. I need to reboot, and I'll check NET VIEW when I come back up. Will EDIT with the results...
EDIT:
Turned them off, rebooted, 1231 error... ugh... But it got worse. Turned the 2 back on, no reboot required, 1231 error... OK, rebooted PC, 1231 error... WHAT IS GOING ON? Verified BOTH features are on...
Going to REBOOT the router and look at these commands:
============
C:\>time The current time is: 19:12:02.43 Enter the new time:
C:\>net view System error 1231 has occurred.
The network location cannot be reached. For information about network troublesho oting, see Windows Help.
C:\>;reboot router now 'reboot' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
C:\>time The current time is: 19:13:03.36 Enter the new time:
C:\>time The current time is: 19:15:21.04 Enter the new time:
C:\>net view Server Name Remark
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \\IRV8700 Irv's 8700 The command completed successfully.
C:\>time The current time is: 19:15:45.55 Enter the new time:
Time stamped between them. READYSHARE is back!!! Took some time to come up though!
Soooo.... I think this is where we stand...
SMB 1.0, maybe only the AUTOMATIC REMOVAL is needed, but something IS needed to see READYSHARE (the USB drive) in the W10 NETWORK on Windows Explorer and in NET VIEW (bug in my opinion).
Probably once my wife's machine becomes the Master Browser (if it comes on when mine is off or comes on before mine) the Router can't handle the request for the device list since no SMB 1.0 is used and then 'breaks'.
Of course, this in NO WAY explains why my iPad couldn't reach the DLNA server unless the R7000 was rebooted. It was working for me since my last R7000 reboot even with NET VIEW failing... another possible R7000 problem.
I did disable it on a 'working' PC after I rebooted the router. See my EDIT in the long post, but YES, SMB 1.0, at least 2 features (suspect only the Automatic Removal possibly to build a new device list as one comes up or goes away?).
Only the Client and Server function will uninstall it says. Not the Automatic Removal feature... and as I pointed out in my reply above, for something that was updated in Nov. 2017 I think there are errors in it, see the reply to other message.
... so based on this (and without having tested/confirmed myself, yet), I think the issue is that the R7000 is not fully compatible with non-SMB 1.0 machines.
Agree and I think I proved that, however, I think this is a bug in the firmware that it is using it, either that or NG is not aware of this fact. If this is the desired function, that they need it and it must be available, then it SHOULD be in the README.
This is going to likely come down to weighing the security risk over the aesthetics of the Network places Explorer. Really leaning toward this being a SMB 1.0 issue and the R7000.
NETGEAR ... if anyone is reading this, some official insight would be beneficial.
Both links don't really apply.
First is about access from non-Windows machines to Windows machines mainly. The second is from May 2017, but my problem wasn't seen until probably mid-Dec. 2017?
This is going to likely come down to weighing the security risk over the aesthetics of the Network places Explorer. Really leaning toward this being a SMB 1.0 issue and the R7000.
NETGEAR ... if anyone is reading this, some official insight would be beneficial.
Both links don't really apply.
First is about access from non-Windows machines to Windows machines mainly. The second is from May 2017, but my problem wasn't seen until probably mid-Dec. 2017?
Both are close though.
Yes, I did not notice any issues until about six weeks ago also ... but it does speak to the role that SMB 1.0 plays.
I did not enable SMB 1.0 on the affected system. But, I did just map the drive (\\readyshare\readyshare) to see what would happen. Through mapping, the drive is immediately available, regardless of the fact it does not show up in the "Network Places" section of Explorer. Another strong indcator that while annoying, this seems to be the intended behavior that MS wants -- that NAS drives be mapped, and not "discovered."
Will live with this for a bit, since I am wary of turning on SMB 1.0 given the known security issues. I will keep you posted!
Yes, I did not notice any issues until about six weeks ago also ... but it does speak to the role that SMB 1.0 plays.
I did not enable SMB 1.0 on the affected system. But, I did just map the drive (\\readyshare\readyshare) to see what would happen. Through mapping, the drive is immediately available, regardless of the fact it does not show up in the "Network Places" section of Explorer. Another strong indcator that while annoying, this seems to be the intended behavior that MS wants -- that NAS drives be mapped, and not "discovered."
Will live with this for a bit, since I am wary of turning on SMB 1.0 given the known security issues. I will keep you posted!
A few things here...
Both of us hit the problem around the same time.
SMB 1.0 seems to be involved.
Yes, NET USE to assign a drive letter still works. However that doesn't help an iPad or other non-OS devices that have the capability to use drive letters, only network shares.
As I expected, the ability to use NET VIEW goes away once the PC is rebooted after it worked after just rebooting the router only. Was working before I shutdown last night, but not when after I booted this morning, NET VIEW error 1231 is back.
So I sort of think there are a few parts here to the problem.
Netgear is dependent on SMB 1.0 for the Network Share information.
Something changed in mid Dec. with respect to Windows 10 that might have broken the process.
Once a PC tries to become the Master Browser and the Router is no longer the Master Browser the whole process is broken. Router can not become the Master Browser again it seems (possibly the cause of the 1231 error). That is it can't get the device list it seems. Suspect it is more that is can't become the MB than not being able to get the list. I could be wrong though.
If the PC that tries to become the Master Browser doesn't have SMB 1.0 enabled the whole process is broken.
Re: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)
@EruvWeather, @TheEther, well just as you think you have it figured out, it got worse, and more confusing...
Want to go past the nitty gritty mess I was in, go to the end on what happened with NEW VIEW.
A week ago a friend comes to me with his PC and it is Windows 10, V1709 and just will not boot. It cycles around doing a repair, diagnosing, and the the selection screen of boot W10 or Advanced options... I tried everything I knew, the Fixboot and BCDedit commands, NOTHING fixed it. At that time RESTORING/REPLACING (Renew) Win10 seemed to be the only option, but that would cause loss of programs (had no image backups to us). So he said don't do that, he'll take it to a computer repair place. He said nothing was added or done to the PC other than shutting it down. Goes to the store and they check it out and call him that they MUST re-install W10 and question him what was on it. Determined only a few non-ms programs were used so they said they can handle all but those (printer drivers, A/V, etc.). He got it back, installed all those and was working fine.
TWO days later my wife's PC hit the SAME EXACT problem!!! Except I use Acronis TrueImage for backups. First thing I tried was the manual rebuilding of the Boot Record and BCD... didn't help. OK, loaded the last saved backup, system booted to it, phew... Next morning, the problem was back!!! Very confused, but I assumed at that point somehow TrueImage managed the booting of the OS even when the PC was turned off after restoring (I don't see how though this could happen?). A few more tries of restoring and the same results. I do have a W7 bootable partition, tried that and it worked fine? Very odd? So I put the C: image on that, no go, get a wrong version message. OK, restored the boot record using the manual fixes, back to the booting error? Ugh...
Last resort, got out the Media Creation tool and installed W10 to the SSD (C: still had the last backup in it) and it installed and WINDOWS.OLD had the usual stuff Windows saves when installing updated versions.
For whatever reason THAT booted fine over 2 days? OK, I'll put the saved image for C: only back on... boot fails and circles on fixing and diagnostics... something in the booting process isn't working, probably damaged in the image? Searching the web, NO SUCH fail by anyone else. In trying to fix the the MBR using BOOTREC I was having an ACCESS DENIED error with /FIXMBR but a lot of those reports I saw had some solutions, such as using DISKPART (which I tried) but most DID NOT SOLVE the problem?
So, getting back to why I posted here... NET VIEW PROBLEMS...
Wife's PC has a 'clean' install of W10 x64 Pro now on it. A NET VIEW on her PC works fine... she can see herself, my PC and READYSHARE? Checked the SMB1 features, her PC has AUTO REMOVAL and the SERVER???? My PC, 1231 error??? Huh? No, the R7000 has NOT been rebooted for a long time.
It is holding working with NET VIEW over many reboots and over 2 days with it off overnight. Something I couldn't do on my PC?
As you might recall, SMB1 being in W10 V1709 wasn't supposed to happen? Prior to NET VIEW not working and getting the 1231 error all the time I checked if SMB1 was on her PC and it wasn't. Turning it on like mine, AUTO REMOVAL and CLIENT didn't make it work on her PC either. I then disabled them.
So WHY are they on now? Is SMB1 in or out of W10 is the question?
Undoubtedly I need to fix some Network settings between the two machines. Where before Explorer at least showed both of our PC's and some parts of the R7000, I now ONLY see the R7000, not even my PC???
So I'm pretty sure since my wife's PC can see ALL the PC's and the Router on the NETWORK, but under NET VIEW and inside Explorer, there has to be some sort of problem on my NETWORK, but that doesn't explain WHY both @EruvWeather and I have a similar problem?
Somehow there appears to be a network W10 problem and it is either the cause of everything or the R7000 has a hand in this as the request has to go through it.
Only 'good news' I have is the DLNA server hasn't disappeared yet. Checking the uptime of the router and it has been up for 4 1/2 days so far...
Now I have to figure out how to get the network between my wife's PC and mine working, and I suspect PERMISSIONS? I recall I had to put a 'USER' on her PC, but not sure. EVERYONE PERMISSIONS doesn't seem to work? Maybe it was also GUEST that was needed? More research to do.
