R7000P drops WIFI connections frequently

[joejoeinc]

I'm finding that the r7000P frequeently drops client wifi connections. I have two PIxel 2XL's that frequently get booted off the 5GHz wifi whenever you put any demand on the router.  The symptoms are the you'll be watching a  youtube video or doing something that frequently requires data and then the data flow to the phones will stop for around 15 seconds and then the phone will disconnect and then fallback to 4G, shortly after that the phone will reconnect to the wifi again only to repeat the issue again and again. 

Or I'll try to use a google home device and it'll just tell me it's no longer connected to the 2.4Ghz network 

I've updated firmwares, I've tried factory resets. I've tried switching channels, I've tried changing to short preambles and nothing seems to fix the issue 

The only somewhat reliable connection is the hardwired Xbox and PC, these devices don't drop. 

[joejoeinc · Accepted solution]

After many hours of troubleshooting, I've found that disabling the MU-MIMO function on the R7000P gives my devices a stable connection. 

Advanced > Advanced Setup > Wireless Setting > [Disable MU-MIMO]. Apply. 

I have been able to transfer several  large files from a wifi device to a wired device without constant dropouts/disconnections at the expense of actually being able to use the MU-MIMO functions of the router. 

There are either issues in the way Netgear has implemented MU-MIMO or an incompatibility issue with some other wifi devices on the network. Since I replaced the r7000P with a new one I suspect it's an issue in the Netgear router not my devices (I can't confirm this though as I don't have a different make/model MU-MIMO router to test). 

Since MIMO is one of the main selling point for this router this also raises a few new questions. 

[DarrenM]

Hello Joejoeinc

I have sent you a Pm.

DarrenM

[joejoeinc]

I can now reproduce the error buy copying a file from a wifi device to a hardwired laptop.. the hardwired laptop will remain online but the wifi PC at the other will drop off wifi and pings to it will stop responding

[joejoeinc]

After talking with Netgear support today they've advised to replace the router. 

[joejoeinc]

After followiong netgears support recommendation to swap the router with the same model R7000P (New) I can reproduce the 'clients dropping from Wi-Fi' issues straight away on the new router just by copying files from a Wireless desktop to a Wired laptop.

As a sanity test I grabbed my old Billion router out and tested the exact same way (the Wifi is slower on the old router) using the old router I see no drop outs when copying files.

[JohnNadeau]

I had a similar problem on an R7000.  Disabling the Guest Networks resolved the problem (well at least as a work-around).

Is your Guest Network enabled or disabled?

[joejoeinc]

The guest WiFi networks have never been enabled.

[joejoeinc]

I'm going to add a clarification to this. even if you don't ever enable the Guest networks when the router boots up ithe router still broadcasts the SSID for the Guest-Networks (a Debug log will show this).  I had to go into the Guest-networks page and manually disable the SSID broadcast and then reboot to truely disable all the guest networks. 

After doing that and rebooting it still didn't help my main issue. shortly after lauching a windows file copy from one client to another everyone gets booted off the Wi-Fi. 

[joejoeinc]

IT seems I am not the only one with this issue. I'm seeing lots of threads with similar issues.  

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/Nighthawk-R7000P-constant-wifi-drops/td-p/16...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7000P-5GHz-wifi-speed-going-down-after-a-fe...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7000P-drops-WiFi-connections/td-p/1479778

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7000P-router-dropping-wifi-and-internet/td-...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7000-keeps-dropping-wifi-connection/td-p/11...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/Nighthawk-R7000P-constant-wifi-drops/td-p/16...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7000P-drops-internet-connections/td-p/13845...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7000P-drops-WIFI-connections-frequently/m-p...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7000P-drops-connection-every-2-hours/td-p/1...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/A-Possible-Cause-of-Dropping-Wifi-Connection...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/Nighthawk-R7000P-constant-wifi-drops/td-p/16...

[FixMyWiFi]

Same thing on the R8000. Nothing helps.
NETGEAR: Pay us more money to support our failing product.

[IrvSp]

@FixMyWiFi, rather than jumping into a thread on a different router, why not start a NEW thread with your problem.

I've got a rock solid R8000, so it isn't every one of them.

In the NEW thread, please put in some details, like the firmware you are on (V1.0.4.28?), what actually happens, like the LED states, what is connected and how. Is there anything in the log? What options have you enabled? Smart Connect? QoS? Traffic Meter?

Any debug or troubleshooting you have done. You said 'nothing helps' so I assume you've done some?

[joejoeinc · Accepted solution]

After many hours of troubleshooting, I've found that disabling the MU-MIMO function on the R7000P gives my devices a stable connection. 

Advanced > Advanced Setup > Wireless Setting > [Disable MU-MIMO]. Apply. 

I have been able to transfer several  large files from a wifi device to a wired device without constant dropouts/disconnections at the expense of actually being able to use the MU-MIMO functions of the router. 

There are either issues in the way Netgear has implemented MU-MIMO or an incompatibility issue with some other wifi devices on the network. Since I replaced the r7000P with a new one I suspect it's an issue in the Netgear router not my devices (I can't confirm this though as I don't have a different make/model MU-MIMO router to test). 

Since MIMO is one of the main selling point for this router this also raises a few new questions. 

[joejoeinc]

@IrvSp @FixMyWiFi 

If your R8000 had MU-MIMO functionality can you try turning it off as a test?

[IrvSp]

---

@joejoeinc wrote:

@IrvSp @FixMyWiFi 

If your R8000 had MU-MIMO functionality can you try turning it off as a test?

---

Thanks, but I do NOT have a problem, and R8000's don't have MU-MIMO either. The R8000P does however.

See, this is the problem that @FixMyWiFi creates when jumping into a thread with a different router as the subject. Confused you in thinking you might have a solution for R8000 users. Others will make the mistake too after searching the forum for help and wind up here.

[joejoeinc]

No worries, I'll just have to wait until someone with a R7000P or a similar MIMO router has the exact same problem as I do to verify if what I did is a good workaround for my issue. (That's if Netgear doesn't solve it with firmeware update in before then).

It would also be interesting to see if someone comes along with a R8000P with the same issue. 

[IrvSp]

@joejoeinc, I suspect the problem would be more on the client side, it can't handle MU-MIMO and it drops it as the router changes how it operates.

Some interesting reading;

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33100-why-you-don-t-need-mu-mimo

From it:

------------

So the router end of MU-MIMO is a hot mess and support on the device end is nothing to write home about. But it doesn't end there. It turns out Broadcom also screwed up on the device side of MU-MIMO. Another little secret widely known by industry insiders, but by few consumers, is that Broadcom's 2x2 MU-MIMO client-side devices fall back to 1x1 mode when connected to a MU-MIMO enabled router. This happens with both Qualcomm and Broadcom-based routers; the problem is on the client side.

------------

Yes, that article is almost 2 years old, not knowing the state of the device with the problem (chipset and driver date) it is possible it caused the problem here (and with your situation). Not sure when the 'fallback' happens, but that cause a break in transmission and loss of the transfer even I guess?

Another 2 year old article, https://www.howtogeek.com/242793/what-is-mu-mimo-and-do-i-need-it-on-my-router/

A little different as it explains that 'pauses' in transmission can occur... and again, did the device just drop the link?

-----

The main benefit here is that instead of each stream being periodically (albeit very, very briefly) interrupted by the time it takes for the carousel to spin around once, a MU-MIMO router can keep its signal constant for those four devices, and fairly distribute the bandwidth to each without compromising the speed of any of the others at the same time.

-----

Again, this could point back to the device not handling it?

We don't even know how many MU-MIMO devices the OP has or how many were operating at the same time?

One of the reasons I decided against the R8000P.

[moemofl]

Thank you for the great tip on disabling the MU-MIMO feature from my R7000p. After disabling it, my wifi connectivity on all devices is now much stabler. Although I did upgrade the firmware on my R7000p to the latest Firmware Version v1.3.1.64_10.1.36; it did not resolve the issue I was having since deployment of this high-tech gadjet. I don't understand why NETGEAR would not resolve this issue with just a simple firmware patch. It is a very annoying problem and the logs in the Administration section of their Web-based Router Configuration Utility does not help with any useful info.  Their MU-MIMO tech feature was the most compelling selling point when deciding on purchasing this device.

[GBart302]

Yup. This R7000P router has turned to garbage. Needs to always be reset or changed wifi channels. Doesn't help that my neighbors also have netgear router that auto channel function always switches to the same channel. But this new "feature" of dropping devices completely a couple times throughout the day is pretty terrible.

[joejoeinc]

I don't think the router is complete garbage. I think the implementation of the MIMO function is horrible. The rest of the router seems to do mostly what it was advertised to do. The router WiFi is fast which is good. However, given the choice to buy again I would probably go with a different vendor. 

The dropping devices on my router has a workaround of disabling the MIMO functions and this seems to give me stable connection (still have an open ticket with netgear about this) 

[GBart302]

I disabled the MIMO function on the router to see if the concern resolves. We will see.

[joejoeinc]

 @moemofl wrote:

I don't understand why NETGEAR would not resolve this issue with just a simple firmware patch.

It's my understanding that most vendors implemented MIMO in different ways so  most devices don't play together nicely when it comes to MIMO, perhaps one day a firmware patch will come out to resolve this issue but I suspect the router will reach end of life before they solve it. 

Their MU-MIMO tech feature was the most compelling selling point when deciding on purchasing this device.

I agree with you 100% here. This is the reason I purchased the device. 

[nyclewis]

Unbelievable that a router with MU-MIMO on the front of the box has to be disabled, but this is indeed the fix for 5GHz dropping out. Thank you very much for sharing.

[Global_Saffer]

The answer is the Netgear hates you, and the rest of us, and really just wants you to buy another brand. 

[nyclewis]

I have a Linksys (Belkin) e8400 that does the same thing, 5GHz dropping out. Rebooted that daily. Feels like they're all just making junk.

[Blaubmania]

I have bought it, last week, update fw, but same issue that wifi is dropping. I see it when i transfer large files.
I have deactivate MIMO, now wifi works correct.
Very bad support from Netgear!!! I think it was a bad choice to buy this product 😞
Thank you for your workaround, without it i had to search hours to find the problem.