RAX120 V2 Constant Random Reboots

[FURRYe38]

Just curious what is the CAT# lan cable between the modem and router? 

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@Bladestorm wrote:

Does the LEDs on top of the router show any AMBER indications when this happens? 

-- No it looks like they all go out and almost like the plug was pulled.

Does the top of the router feel extra warm when this happens? 

---Not sure what extra warm is to the normal standards to me no does not

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

--Spectrum, 1gig      Modem: Hitron Spectrum Cable Modem ES2251 DOCSIS3.1 2.5G eMTA

Does this modem have a 2.5Gb WAN port? 

--Yes

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[beachmiles]

Yes I enabled the thermal fan under the debug page but that setting does not persist through random reboots.

I also have tried this 140mm fan under the router with no noticeable reduction in the random reboot frequency.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MWH4FL4/

Many others in this forum have tried the same external fan with no benefit.

I bought and returned this power supply as it didn't help with the reboots as well

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GBG0U6Q

Some on the forum have had success with a different power supply so maybe the one I tried was still to noisy or something, but fairly sure the core problem lies somewhere in the firmware possibly in the 2.4Ghz radio / QOS sections.

Both of these very common 2.4Ghz wifi arduino esp32 boards both had issues running a asynchronous web server hosting a webpage using Skeleton CSS and jQuery-like lightweight zepto.js for handling events

https://www.wemos.cc/en/latest/s2/s2_mini.html

https://www.wemos.cc/en/latest/c3/c3_mini.html

This is the webpage library and asyncwebserver code that runs on the esp32 devices.

https://github.com/s00500/ESPUI/

https://github.com/me-no-dev/ESPAsyncWebServer

I didn't try running the code on the other flavors of the esp32 chips or the older 8266 chip but I imagine the same problem will show up where only ~10-20% of the webpage is displayed. Im guessing some 2.4Ghz packets are getting their streams crossed/delayed in the RAX120v2 causing the webpage to stop loading.

The instant I disconnected the RAX120v2 and switched back to my old netgear R7500-200NAS router the web pages running on the esp32 started working perfectly and serving 100% of the webpage. So this is an issue separate from the random reboots that is a show stopper for me, and may be a key part of the random reboot problem.

Since these expressif 8266 and esp32 modules and clones of these are heavily used in smart devices Im guessing people like me with 15+ 2.4Ghz smart home devices all could be having little hiccups the cumulatively add up to badness causing the router to trip itself up. I can send you the arduino code to flash to recreate the issue. You can buy the boards on aliexpress or amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/DWEII-ESP32-S2FN4R2-Connection-Compatible-MicroPython/dp/B0B2ZWTMH1

Ive popped open these smart bulbs and verified they have use the esp32-c3 chip for instance which is what I was making the custom arduino firmware for.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092PR9TBJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is a list of expressif based smart devices that may contribute to router reboot issues.

https://templates.blakadder.com/

[_NDS_]

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@beachmiles wrote:

Some on the forum have had success with a different power supply so maybe the one I tried was still to noisy or something, but fairly sure the core problem lies somewhere in the firmware possibly in the 2.4Ghz radio / QOS sections.

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I had the random reboots go away for exactly one month (30 days) by replacing the stock USA power adapter with the one Netgear supplies for this router model in the UK market (I am in the UK). However, even after this prolonged period of stability, the random reboots eventually returned - on a once a day frequency. There was no change in the usage pattern or connected devices during this period, I therefore was not able to root cause the problem. 

The random reboot issue could be caused by multiple factors combined, which complicates the resolution.

Considering the ongoing silence from NG on their approach to the issue and apparent lack of consistent effort to resolve this (e.g. release a firmware version that keeps the log in the protected memory rather than loses it at every reboot, records router temperature, cpu load etc.) suggests to me, that they are not under any pressure to resolve this.

Another evidence to this being the fact that this thread has a 'resolved' marker on it.

It's far from being resolved, isn't it @DarrenM, @FURRYe38  ?

[_NDS_]

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@dude8370 wrote:

For my v2 unit, loading the thing hard causes it to reboot.

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Thank you for pointing this out, this is in line with both the 'kernel panics' model which NG are trying to resolve in firmware, apperntly without success, and also with the possible explanation provided by @Topology in Understanding and Measuring Power-Supply Transient Recovery Time.

Deficiency in the design of the power adapter, supplied with the router could be causing fluctuations of the supplied voltage, while higher electrical current is drawn by the routher, when the processor is under heavy load. These voltage fluctuations may then trigger the reboot.

This could have also been verified if Netgear was able to reduce the CPU clock speed in firmware - for testing purposes. At the end of the day that Qualcomm IPQ8074A is 2.0 Ghz clock speed with 4 cores and must be power hungry.

The processor chip is the only change between V1 and V2 RAX120 models (see attached). RAX120 V1 was known not to reboot randomly.

[Bladestorm]

Now i have only 2 days to return this over heated paper weight to Amazon. Can anyone advise if this will be fixed or are they just going to have us put in refrigerator to make it work?

Can someone advise another router with same specs that does not have these issues

Or when or if this will be addressed and fixed?

Thank you sorry getting tired of beta testing this router.

[FURRYe38]

I recommend you return the 120v2 and find a 200 series model. Users have not reported any reboot issues with this model. 

NG is working on it however no idea when it will be fixed. So your best bet would be to return it. 

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@Bladestorm wrote:

Now i have only 2 days to return this over heated paper weight to Amazon. Can anyone advise if this will be fixed or are they just going to have us put in refrigerator to make it work?

Can someone advise another router with same specs that does not have these issues

Or when or if this will be addressed and fixed?

Thank you sorry getting tired of beta testing this router.

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[Bladestorm]

I have just ordered the one below. hope this is the right one.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_941RAX200/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-AX12.html

[dude8370]

To be clear, loading it can cause it to reboot, but also it can reboot with minimal load. Could it be regarding the voltage to the PS? Maybe. 

I can add, the RAX120 v1 we also have with the EXACT same power supply does not reboot at all no matter the situation, and is very stable. This v2 is as erratic as the needle on a sewing machine. 

[FURRYe38]

Hoping that we an get some logs from you if possible.

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@dude8370 wrote:

To be clear, loading it can cause it to reboot, but also it can reboot with minimal load. Could it be regarding the voltage to the PS? Maybe. 

I can add, the RAX120 v1 we also have with the EXACT same power supply does not reboot at all no matter the situation, and is very stable. This v2 is as erratic as the needle on a sewing machine. 

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[Bladestorm]

 FURRYe38 

‎2022-09-21 10:51 AM

Hoping that we an get some logs from you if possible.

Are you saying they cannot reproduce this issue in house? I do find this hard to believe if so. Just asking since I do QA and if something like this did occur we would be testing in house first before reaching out the the public for logs.

Sorry to derail but after reading all the posts on this very hard to believe either they are not wanting to test in house or ????

[FURRYe38]

I don't know. They maybe wanting to see logs from users since mostly more reproducible out here in the field. Seems like it's been hard to quantify the reboots with various users ands what there doing at the time of the reboot. Too many variables. 

Was mentioned that there was a Kernel panic happening that after a period of time would cause the reboot if the router was under load that would cause high CPU usage thus would heat up thus why asking if the top of the router feels extra warm or hot. Trigger temps if reached should turn on the fan but may not be. There was a beta being offered a few months ago but didn't seem to resolve this. changing of power adapters wasn't a final solution either. 

Having logs from users would help for review and for comparison. 

[_NDS_]

@FURRYe38 

While some reasonable cooperation is fair to expect from the end user to troubleshoot the issue with a novel IT equipment, in this particular case I feel Netgear has failed to deliver any confidence that they are actively looking to resolve the issue.

This thread is one year and nine months old. Surely over this period of time Netgear should have been able to collect all information possible from the unlucky users? What is clear is that their current approach is not working, as the issue persits through firmware updates.

The key to the problem is their ability to reproduce the issue on the bench. Then they can resolve it if this then is treated as priority.

The fact that they still looking for user logs suggests that they have not reproduced the issue are are shooting in the dark.

It's about time someone from Netgear provided their official acknoledgement of the problem and timeline to resolve.

[FURRYe38]

Please feel free to reach out to NG support or a forum moderator regarding your concerns as all this is beyond forum help. 

Good Luck. 

[_NDS_]

Sure @DarrenM  and @ChristineT - as this forum moderator and admin respectively - the only official links to Netgear form here, are you able to provide an official reply on the matter of random reboots with RAX120 V2 and timeline for it to be resolved?

Thank you in advance.

PS I just also emailed mark.merrill@netgear.com - the Chief Technology Officer

[Bladestorm]

Not to side track this but just got the RAX200 up and running. the fans on the top of that router you can feel the air being pushed. the RAX120 you could not even feel the air coming out if it or hear it working. At lease for my setup. Returning the RAX120 now.

[FURRYe38]

Ya, i think one of many problems with the 120v2 is that the fan isn't being triggered by default when the heat gets high. 

Glad the 200 is working. 

[_NDS_]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

Ya, i think one of many problems with the 120v2 is that the fan isn't being triggered by default when the heat gets high.  

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@FURRYe38

Nope. This is yet again another deflection. The fan is working perfectly fine on my RAX120v2, however it is still rebooting randomly. Plus, quite a few people, including muniz_ri recently, reported the router rebooting even with the fan switched permanently on through the debug page in the GUI. You have seen and even replied to these posts. Being an 'experienced user' it should be blatantly obvious to you that the fan is not the root cause and cooling is not a solution. We all should know this by now.

If the was a problem with a fan on the RAX120 there would be a thread "I can never hear my RAX120 fan - is it broken?". No such thread.

Why post something that has no relevance?

[_NDS_]

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@Bladestorm wrote:

Not to side track this but just got the RAX200 up and running. the fans on the top of that router you can feel the air being pushed. the RAX120 you could not even feel the air coming out if it or hear it working. At lease for my setup. Returning the RAX120 now.

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Returning the RAX120 was definitely the right thing to do.

Bringing up the point about not hearing the fan is. Did you RAX120 feel very hot to touch? It's fan has a temperature sensor and is triggered when the temperature of the CPU reaches certain threshold. It should come on only from time to time and stay most of the time off, allowing for passive cooling of the router.

[Bladestorm]

Yes at one point I used my surface temp to see what the top of the router was it was 55 Celsius. 

[Bladestorm]

Well update the RAX200 has not had the reboot issue. mounted on wall working without issue. 

I did notice one thing the below differences. 

RAX 200 1.8gig processor

RAX120  2.2gig processor 

Also the RAX200 has larger power supply wall converter. 

Not sure but wonder if the RAX120 is way under powered for the job?

Just my 2 cents not worth much but had to get it out there   🙂

[Tiberius675a]

Decided ti give support one more try before dropping another $300 for a replacement. I am over the 90 days so I put in a hardware ticket. Working through all the steps they are asking me to do even though I have already done them.

Last request was to download the firmware, update manually and reset using the reset button. Just did this now.

Curious where this will end up.

[Bladestorm]

I know I know   It will end up rebooting again randomly...      Sorry to say but they are just pulling your chain.

[Tiberius675a]

I know. It has already rebooted twice since I did the manual update and reset. Not expecting much. Even if they did send a replacement chances are it will have the same problem.

[Tiberius675a]

They requested pictures of the unit and proof of purchase mentioned an RMA

[Tiberius675a]

RMA approved.Just Entered the shipping information.

Let  you all know when I receive the replacement and if there is any change.