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A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
I wanted to try enabling the 6Ghz-only SSID on my RBKE963B (firmware version V6.3.7.10_3.3.3). When I applied the change to enable that SSID, it instead enabled NETGEAR-Guest and NOT the 6Ghz SSID I want. I went to the Guest network page and confirmed that it was NOT enabled. So, I tried to enable it just so I could afterwards disable it. However, after those changes, the NETGEAR-Guest SSID continues to be broadcasted. I went back and disabled the (still unseen) 6Ghz SSID, and afterwards the NETGEAR-Guest continues to be publicized.
Just to be clear; I do NOT want the NETGEAR-Guest SSID enabled. Is there another way to make it go away?
So, sounds like a couple of things aren't working right.
Is it appropriate to inform NETGEAR via this forum of these bugs or is there a different bug reporting process?
Was any of this documented and something I just didn't read carefully enough?
Documentation? You jest. It's only speculation, but my guess is that when the Orbi is in router mode, the WAN interface is on a separate IP subnet from the LAN interfaces. It is impossible for a satellite to have an IP on the WAN subnet, so there is no point in looking for a satellite out the WAN port. Once the code is written, nobody thought, "Well, if it is in AP mode, then maybe we should look for satellites on the WAN interface, too?"
Once people got their hands on the 960 where both the router and satellites have a 2.5G port, there was a batch of posts about which 2.5G switches people were using to network the router and satellites together. Those discussions were always in terms of the LAN side. The only documentation I am aware of about using wired backhaul is this one:
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Just to update; after some minutes the NETGEAR-Guest SSID did finally stop being publicized. Must be some delay between disablement in the web GUI and the actions being taken...
Must be some delay between disablement in the web GUI and the actions being taken...
Any time the user changes WiFi parameters, the system 'resets' the entire WiFi radio apparatus (on the router and every satellite). This does not happen instantly. (far from it).
In addition, the Orbi web pages also do not update instantly.
This is going to be a tough thing to persuade Netgear on. There have been many posts on the forum about the 960 and no one has yet mentioned that the 6G network cannot be turned on.
It would be helpful if can replicate this phenomenon (do it several times). When I read the RBRE960 user manual section describing the 6G capability, there is no mention of "guest". In the primary and guest WiFi, enabling the feature enables both the 2.4G and 5G networks. There is no "choice". (This was point of frustration for users, which one might imagine led to the creation of the "IoT" network in the 960 product.)
One might also imagine that the 6G network does not provide a guest option because devices supporting 6G are not common. If someone comes over and has a device that supports 6G, then either (a) they can live with the 5G and 2.4G WiFi until they go somewhere else, or (b) you can share the 6G WiFi password with them.
NETGEAR-Guest implies that you never changed the guest WiFi SSID. Perhaps it would be a good idea to do so before experimenting with the 6G WiFi network again. (If NETGEAR-Guest appears after the SSID was changed, that would indicate one problem. If the new guest SSID appears, that would be a different problem.)
Having zero devices which support WiFi6E (6G), I would not be able to observe whether a 6G network was created (or not).
If you can replicate the problem at will, something is definitely "amiss".
Guest WiFi is not enabled, and the guest SSID is not NETGEAR-Guest.
Enable the 6G network with a unique SSID/password.
Observe with a WiFi6E capable device that the 6G network does not appear.
Observe that a guest WiFi network has appeared on the 2.4G and 5G channels.
Netgear has forum moderators who have the ability to report issues to Netgear support. With this kind of evidence, they would almost certainly do so.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject. Just an FYI; I did NOT change (or even touch) the NETGEAR-Guest SSID as that was NOT the item I was interested in using or modifying. It simply became active when I attempted to enable the 6Ghz-ONLY SSID (which, by the way NEVER became visible).
One more thing I just discovered, and this is more disconcerting. I had to change my network passwords for the two SSIDs I'm using (for other reasons). After applying that change, it seemed to work as I was near the router node and did a successful reconnection of a device to the network. However, what I discovered is it never pushed the changes out to the satellites, so the passwords didn't get updated on them. I've just power cycled them to see if that worked (but I've not confirmed it yet).
This probably relates to the other issue I have with this 3-node mesh system. That is, both satellites are using wired backhaul connections to a 2.5Gbe switch however the router node keeps telling me I do not have any satellites. The satellites are however accessible from their individual login web pages, and they indeed have devices connecting to them. But perhaps because they appear connected, there's no effort by the router node to push changes out.
As I've noted elsewhere, the satellites are ONLY seen by the router node IF their backhaul is connecting wirelessly. If I let them do this, then they are seen but that only works if I unplug the wired backhaul. If after wirelessly backhauling the satellites has been done AND then plugging them back into the wired backhaul switch, my network starts reporting a LOOP condition. It seems both are used with the wireless backhaul remaining (needlessly) active. The solution for that problem is to press SYNC on each satellite and let them reconnect. It seems there is logic in the satellites to not use the wireless backhaul IF a wired backhaul connection is available.
Sadly, there doesn't seem to be logic in the router node for detecting the satellites via a wired connection...
I wouldn't think this a critical factor but I'm running my RBKE963B in AP mode.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Thanks for the additional information.
Could you describe how things are connected in more detail:
The Orbi WAN port is connected.......
Directly to ISP router port?
To the 2.5G switch, which is in turn connected to the ISP router port?
How are the satellites connected?
Is one of the router LAN ports connected to the switch?
Which device is being used to detect the 6G WiFi network?
Not having a 960, I have not paid a lot of attention, but there have been a number of posts recently on the forum about satellites creating "loops" when using a wired backhaul.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Sure. At present my ISP's router (running as a router and not in bridge mode) is providing 2.5Gbe to a 2.5Gbe switch. That switch is what all 3 Orbi nodes are connected to (including the router node running in AP mode). I'm using the 10Gbe port on the router and only the 2.5Gbe ports on the satellites to connect to that 2.5Gbe switch.
Regarding the 6Ghz network (SSID), I think that was a consequence of the satellite node not getting the router changes propagated to it while it was connected using wired backhaul. I will test this again to confirm but in my prior post I had indicated that I hoped a power-cycle of the nodes would do the trick in getting them synchronized with changes made in the router node. THAT DID NOT WORK.
The only way to make the changes propagate was to disconnect the wired backhauls on the satellites and let them (slowly...) be reacquired by the router node. Once that happened, the password changes I had made then appeared active through the network.
So, what we seem to have is a command-and-control shortcoming. As written, the code in the router only works if the satellites are connected wirelessly. Internet access works fine from all satellites if they are using wired backhaul and I can certainly log into them to query their interfaces, but management of this mesh network is severely impaired when using wired backhaul. That's a bit of understatement of course because there is NO management or even visibility of the satellites to the router node when they are connected via wire.
If I'm correct, this product has been in the market since August 2021. I'm aghast that this has not been discovered and corrected before now...
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Additional testing with additional results...
With all three nodes wirelessly backhaul-connected and showing in the APP and via the webpage to be so, I enabled the 6Ghz-only SSID (called something unique) and observed that this new node was NOT created. Instead, and again, the NETGEAR-Guest SSID was created even those the guest network settings are disabled. Checking the router status page also says the guest network is not on. Yet, the SSID remains visible (without ever be asked to be turned on).
So, I once again disabled the 6Ghz SSID and after propagation, the NETGEAR-Guest SSID remains visible. It previously went away when I power cycled the nodes but this time, I'll let it stay on overnight to see if it will eventually fall off.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
And it appears that with enough time (10-15 minutes), the unwanted SSID of NETGEAR-Guest did fall off on its own.
This might be working as designed but it seems to me to be VERY slow for changes made to have an effect throughout this Orbi network. System designers should ponder this...
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Orbi routers expect to find satellites connected to a LAN port, not to the WAN port. Access Point mode "makes everything work" in the sense that every device on the IP subnet created by the ISP router can send/receive packets with every other device.
I believe the problem would disappear if the cabling is changed:
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
A trite bit confused by your reply because this IS how they are connected, as I attempted to describe in an earlier post.
ISP Router -->WAN port on Router ORBI (via a 2.5Gbe switch) with each satellite 's 2.5Gbe port also connected to a 2.5Gbe switch.
My ISP's router only has ONE 2.5Gbe port and so it cannot be solely connected to the ORBI Router, but instead must be shared via the intermediate switch I'm using.
Now if you're suggesting that the satellites must use the 1Gbe ports to form a wired backhaul, well that completely abrogates having 2.5Gbe ports on them and hence that speed of backhaul.
I can't believe THAT'S how they intended it to work. More likely, I've completely misunderstood your suggestions. Are you perhaps suggesting that the WAN connection on the ORBI Router isn't necessary when it's used in AP mode? That instead I should connect it to my switch network via its 2.5Gbe port???
Was any of this documented and something I just didn't read carefully enough?
Documentation? You jest. It's only speculation, but my guess is that when the Orbi is in router mode, the WAN interface is on a separate IP subnet from the LAN interfaces. It is impossible for a satellite to have an IP on the WAN subnet, so there is no point in looking for a satellite out the WAN port. Once the code is written, nobody thought, "Well, if it is in AP mode, then maybe we should look for satellites on the WAN interface, too?"
Once people got their hands on the 960 where both the router and satellites have a 2.5G port, there was a batch of posts about which 2.5G switches people were using to network the router and satellites together. Those discussions were always in terms of the LAN side. The only documentation I am aware of about using wired backhaul is this one:
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
I can confirm that on mine when I enable the 6Ghz separate SSID broadcast and apply the change, I do see the Guest nad IoT network for about 30 seconds then they disappear.
We've seen this before on the other AX series systems as well. If a sync is in progress or booting to ready, the Guest network seems to broadcast for a short periof of time then disappears.
Also should the RBS some how get out of sync, this could be seen there as well as being out of sync could cause the Guest Network to not be shut off when the RBS gets configuration information from the RBR can't be completed correctly.
It when it continues to broadcast when it's not actually enabled is a problem. We have brought this up to NG.
As long as it doesn't continue to broadcast when it's not enabled, you'll be ok.
I wanted to try enabling the 6Ghz-only SSID on my RBKE963B (firmware version V6.3.7.10_3.3.3). When I applied the change to enable that SSID, it instead enabled NETGEAR-Guest and NOT the 6Ghz SSID I want. I went to the Guest network page and confirmed that it was NOT enabled. So, I tried to enable it just so I could afterwards disable it. However, after those changes, the NETGEAR-Guest SSID continues to be broadcasted. I went back and disabled the (still unseen) 6Ghz SSID, and afterwards the NETGEAR-Guest continues to be publicized.
Just to be clear; I do NOT want the NETGEAR-Guest SSID enabled. Is there another way to make it go away?
So, sounds like a couple of things aren't working right.
Is it appropriate to inform NETGEAR via this forum of these bugs or is there a different bug reporting process?
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
I’ve never given it enough time to see it go away by itself but I’ll watch for that next time. Regarding enabling the 6Ghz SSID, I never saw that SSID appear. Did you?
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Yes. Its broadcasting for me as I have a couple of devices that support 6Ghz. Non 6Ghz supporting devices will never see the SSID when enabled. Intel AX210 PCI wifi adapter and RAXE500.
Be sure you have 66Ghz supporting devices.
Also try a factory reset and setup from scratch to help resolve issues if you didn't try that after FW was updated.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
That's quite fascinating. I had not heard of selective visibility on SSID's before. Well, sure enough, the 6Ghz SSID *did* show up for my desktop which is using the Intel AX210 Wi-Fi card. I was able to connect to it at a whopping 2400mbs! Actual throughput to the internet as shown with SpeedTest only made it to a bit less than 1200mbs out of a potential 1450mbs, but that's fantastic for wireless!
Now I have another computer with EXACTLY that same Wi-Fi card and the same software drivers, but it does NOT see the 6Ghz SSID. I'm trying to reason out the cause and still working some ideas. Will update when or if I make progress!
Also, the erroneous NETGEAR-Guest SSID finally did go away on its own, though it took at least 15 minutes for that to happen. Still an odd sort of behavior that just can't be working as designed. 😉
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
It's not selective visibility, rather it's hardware depending. If wifi adapters don't support the 6Ghz frequency, they will never see any 6Ghz SSID broadcasts.
That the max speed rate you'll see from a AX210. That's is expected since its a 2x2 MIMO device.
Possible faulty adapter. Be sure the advanced settings with in the adapters configuration has 6Ghz enabled.
Ya thus GN SSID has been problematic over Orib systems for a while. 🙄
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Hopefully not a bad adapter but I'm going to test if it might be the antenna. I retrofitted this particular PC with this card from a Wi-Fi 5 adapter, but I continued to use the original antenna. Wi-Fi 6 connectivity works but 6E never has. I'm going to install antennas specifically for the AX210 to see if that makes a difference.
Otherwise, all settings are the same between the PC that works and the one that does not. I even set the preferred bandpass to 6Ghz but that didn't help.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Just want to close the loop on the wired-backhaul problem with satellite visibility. Your suggestion to couple the router node to the 2.5Gbe switch in addition to the WAN port, did the trick. Everything is working and visible as it was expected to be.
Sure, the documentation DOES show using the 2.5Gbe port on each of the nodes but it seemed more like a suggested way of doing it, when in reality is a REQUIRED method (for using wired backhaul).
Hopefully not a bad adapter but I'm going to test if it might be the antenna. I retrofitted this particular PC with this card from a Wi-Fi 5 adapter, but I continued to use the original antenna. Wi-Fi 6 connectivity works but 6E never has. I'm going to install antennas specifically for the AX210 to see if that makes a difference.
Otherwise, all settings are the same between the PC that works and the one that does not. I even set the preferred bandpass to 6Ghz but that didn't help.
Thanks,
Jonathan
On the machine NOT seeing the 6GHz broadcast - go into the WiFi connections and forget the connection and then log back into it. I have seen in the past that once it hooks onto the 5GHz band it will continue to grab the 5GHz band until you forget it and reconnect.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Understood, but in my situation, it's not just grabbing the old SSID, the newer 6Ghz SSID is not visible in the list of available networks. This is now occurring on a second laptop that I installed the AX210 Wi-Fi card into which was also previously a Wi-Fi 5 device, which bolsters my theory that it is the antenna that is incapable of receiving the 6Ghz signal. I'll be testing that out later today when I get a Wi-Fi 6 antenna kit in to try.
Re: A curious bug: NETGEAR-Guest whether I want it or not!
Also something to be aware of, MS chose not to officially support 6Ghz and WPA3 in Windows 10. Though there are some historical drivers that were made available that would work for Windows 10 OSs.
