Devices dropping from network

[Mikepedley]

Any ideas please?

I am running small home network, comprising of 2 x Microsoft Windows 11 laptops, 1 x Raspberry pi file servers running samba share, 1 x Raspberry pi running Urbackup server with 2 WD 2 & 4T drives. 2  x Android phones and 2 x tablets, 3 Networked Cameras..  These are connected vis Netgear GS108Ev30 and a Netgear Orbi RBR860 with 2 x satellites. (I also have 20+ devices connected to control lights etc as my wife is disabled)

Up to last month everything could see everyone else, transferring from samba to windows to Android with no problems. The camera uses its own software and still ok.

About a month ago I thought I would try the Armor AV as my brother-in-law used Bitdefender on his phones. At the same time, I put the Netgear managed switch in place as needed more ports. This in a bare knuckle install with no VLans or settings changed.

About 3 weeks funny things were starting to happen plus I didn’t like Bitdefender.  So, I disabled the Armor on the Orbi, removed the software from laptops and phones, now with the exception on my phones and tablets. I am unable to view any devices on the network, using network discovery.

My phones and Tablets are the only can see all the networked devices and samba share.  I can ping the devices, I can network map a drive using \\server\share, I borrowed a clean laptop but still no joy. I plugged one of the Raspberry pi from the switch to a direct port on the satellite, nothing. I have set the Orbi to Factory reset, connected devices via Wi-Fi and Ethernet but still no joy.  I have checked that the services etc are still active on the laptops, just in case I defaulted the laptop firewall setting, but I have never had to do that before I have never set any ports or protocols on the Orbi I don’t think it’s that. But nothing

Ideas please.

Mike

[FURRYe38]

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6 is recommended. 

How many RBS are deployed? 
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR📡 and RBS🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite ‌‌🛰️

Does this happen with the RBS turned OFF? 
Does this happen with both wireless and wired devices? 
What channel configurations are currently set on the router?  

Be sure to disable any MAC Address randomizers on phones and pads while at home:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/NETGEAR-Mobile-Applications-and-Apple-Devices-FAQ/td-p/222...

Are the RBS wireless or ethernet connected to the RBR? 

[CrimpOn]

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@Mikepedley wrote:

I am unable to view any devices on the network, using network discovery.

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Could you please explain network discovery in more detail.  Does this mean

• Viewing the Orbi web interface Attached Devices page?
• Using a utility program on a laptop or other computer?

Could you navigate to the Orbi web interface, Advanced Tab, Security Menu, Access Control and confirm that Access Control is enabled (or disabled)?  Does it show any devices as "Blocked"?

Thanks

[Mikepedley]

thanks for reply,  hope following helps

latest .2.4.5 

sky box, have no issues with internet connectivity

Yes good cables Cat6

One main router and 2 x satellites

no idea, middle sized bungalow, two bedrooms,

distance from main door where main router is connected to the outside world is about about 30 ft to the satellites that has he connected equipment , another about 10 feet more on the opposite side of building,

with the  satellite turned of i loose the ethernet connectivity as expected but wireless still works, but still cant see devices on the windows network discovery which i need.

have tried moving some raspberry pi servers to other satellite but to no avail.

channel 40 (42), not much on this channel, i am a distance from other houses so very little going on,

o, have tried the MAC address as suggested.

both wireless and ethernet, Ethernet controls hive and Pulpits lights and heating

devices

Hope this helps, Mike

[Mikepedley]

thanks for reply. Sorry should have given more detail on this

its the windows network discovery program which is now not working, phones ok Tablet has odd hiccup

I have a few Raspberry pi file servers that i use for centralised storage and backup, i am familiar with this, re my job (retired).  My Daughter-in-Laws and sons also use this storage to copy of data from there phones and laptops - mainly pictures...  lots of pictures.  they come over scan network and copy to their labelled storage. , but if they cant see devices to connect to they tend to panic.  ok if I'm around but unfortunately my health is not good and have spent a lot of time in hospital.  this also applies to my wife who is not computer literate. 

looking at the Orbi web interface and the phone app i can see all connected devices.

Access control looks disabled, there is nothing in the tick box that say turn-on.   I can see all devices in list , nothing is blocked.  No setting in blocked sites and services

Many thanks,  hope this helps

[FURRYe38]

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@Mikepedley wrote:

thanks for reply,  hope following helps

latest .2.4.5 

sky box, have no issues with internet connectivity

What is the model # of this ISP device please.

Yes good cables Cat6

One main router and 2 x satellites

no idea, middle sized bungalow, two bedrooms,

Need near or best estimate of acutal size of home in sq feet please.

distance from main door where main router is connected to the outside world is about about 30 ft to the satellites that has he connected equipment , another about 10 feet more on the opposite side of building,

Might move the farther RBS a bit closer maybe. 

with the  satellite turned of i loose the ethernet connectivity as expected but wireless still works, but still cant see devices on the windows network discovery which i need.

have tried moving some raspberry pi servers to other satellite but to no avail.

channel 40 (42), not much on this channel, i am a distance from other houses so very little going on,

o, have tried the MAC address as suggested.

both wireless and ethernet, Ethernet controls hive and Pulpits lights and heating

devices

Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router been performed since last update?
Be sure to restart your network in this sequence:
Turn off and unplug modem.
Turn off router and computers.
Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on computers and rest of network.

Try this with just the RBR ON to see if networking returns to expected behavior.

---

[CrimpOn]

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@Mikepedley wrote:

its the windows network discovery program which is now not working, phones ok Tablet has odd hiccup

---

Having never installed Bitdefender, I have no idea what it may have done to Windows settings.  Might be worth a few minutes verifying that Windows Discovery is actually enabled.

I use various programs to scan the local network, including Slitheris Network Discovery (free)

https://www.komodolabs.com/ 

Could you please give that program a try and see if it "finds" the resources?

It is not blazing fast, but is pretty thorough.

[Mikepedley]

Many thanks, 

i have verified the windows network setting, including resetting the firewall, the required SMB settings etc. all seems correct

i installed the network discovery software you suggested and it scan and found all the devices i have been looking for.

Given this it looks like windows settings problem , as you suggested things Bitdefender changed..  but i did try a fresh windows laptop that didn't have AV installed and it didn't fine anything?

.

[CrimpOn]

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@Mikepedley wrote:

its the windows network discovery program which is now not working, phones ok Tablet has odd hiccup

---

I must be having a senior moment because I cannot find anything called Network Discovery on Windows 10 or Windows 11.  I see in the Network control panel the options for sharing, which are enabled on my private network.  There is a Command Line program called Net View that is supposed to be run in Administrator mode. On both my Windows 10 and Windows 11 machines Net View gives an error about the "process is not started".

Can you please point me toward really simple instructions on how to run Network Discovery?

Thanks

[BullMoon]

Network Discovery is a pain in my experience.  I don't find it generally reliable after decades of using Windows networking.  Some random server seems to always be missing from the list - random - sometimes one, sometimes several - at the moment, I don't see any, but if I \\servername\ I can get to them.

How it is turned on / off depends on the Windows version - sometimes you'll get a message that it's off, offering to turn it on or to make a network "private"...or here...

I suspect you have a Windows problem since all your devices are connected, just Windows networking not finding networked servers.  In the past when I have seen problems like this, I have Googled and changed SMB protocol settings and whatever else is suggested and sometimes it helps.  But like now, nothing at all. I reckon it's an explorer problem and may be cured if I restart explorer.

Something else you can do is look at the list from a command prompt - run CMD.exe and then type "net view".  That should return a list of servers which is working for me now, just not from explorer.

[BullMoon]

Yes, so I was correct.  I Task Manager killed the Explorer.exe process and restarted it and now all my servers show up as they should in Explorer under the Network folder.  But that was the solution this time for this version of the problem.  I figured if the command line net view could see them, but explorer couldn't, it was explorer getting confused.  As I said, in general, I find that entire thing unreliable and an unfortunate networking time waster with Windows. 😞 

[Mikepedley]

Sure, its in Windows Explorer at the bottom left pain

Under the Network ab i can only see my Mikep Windows Laptop

it should also show thee two devices as a minimum  

But as you see it doesn't, and that's the problem.

The other network and share bit you found is all part of the discover settings that Explorer uses, and these settings are correct.

[Mikepedley]

to be honest its the first time its happened, i have been running this type of network for about 5-6 years.

Yes set and reset Sharing tabs. 

I have had SMB protocols dropping in the past so that's the first place i looked

yes net view data works fine, i have taken your suggestion and killed Explorer in task manager but that didn't fix the problem

Although i have tried using a clean Laptop to view the network it was old.

I think my next step is to re-install the wife s laptop with a clean Windows install then test after every update to get back to latest.  (But what made me think it was not this because my sons laptops cant see network either,)

The only common thing across all devices was Bitfender....  But what did it change?

[Mikepedley]

Give me Unix any day

[BullMoon]

Right, I figured restarting Explorer was not going to help your problem.  Here's a few links that might have a solution. 

https://appuals.com/how-to-fix-network-discovery-not-working-on-windows-10/

https://www.makeuseof.com/fix-network-discovery-not-working-windows-10/

[Mikepedley]

thanks, i am on windows 11 but the concepts are the same. 

i have tries these  find these, i also found them when googling 

[Mikepedley]

sorry for the delay.  I followed directions to letter, i took a little more time but all 22 devices connected to RBR except the ones running on Ethernet that was connected to RBS.  things still the same, can see my shares on mobiles and tablets not on laptops

Mike

[Mikepedley]

Ok. Rebuilt wife's laptop. Still no joy
Now very confused.

When I set the Orbi back to factory settings, does this completely reset everything? Manual says top level bits? Wondered if any bitfender / Armour changes are still set?