Reply

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

mihealy54
Aspirant

Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

Hello,

I am having trouble with my Orbi AX6000 (RBR850RBS850).  I am getting very frustrated with this product.  I have swapped it out at Best Buy 3-times for misc problems, why is the quality so low?

Now I am once again having trouble with this product..........DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT, YOU WUILL REGRET!!!!!!

Problem Definition::

1) Initially, right after a clean reboot.  The bandwidth upstream (me-2-ISP) and downstream (ISP-2-me) is great DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps.  I have direct fiber-to-the-home, I pay for DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps

- The by the end of the day (14-16hrs later) the bandwidth has been reduced in the Upstream (me-to-ISP), DS=300Mbps/US=62Mbps.

- I have spent huge huge amounts of time debugging with the ISP Provider, removed the Orbi Router from the system 5times, 100% proven the ISP Provider is perfect (correct BW).

- It has absolutely no problems with ISP traffic congestion, my provider guarantees DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps, I have removed Orbi in the middle of the day when traffic peak, PC plugged into ISP ONT Box (no Orbi) == perfect bandwidth (DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps).  Plug Orbi back in, reduced BW = DS=300Mbps/US=62Mbps, both connected to LAN ports and WIFI, US=60Mbps.  Really annoying

 

I am really frustrated

Have spent hundreds of hours debugging this product

Why so much effort? 

Why is your quality so low?

Why have you charged me the most amount of money in the industry for a router product that does not work?

I opened a case with Netgear, no reply, no case, nothing?

Mike H.
Message 1 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? 

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Be sure to check your CTS and RTS values. If they are at 64, please change both to 2346. Reboot both RBR and wireless devices.

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 2 of 13
mihealy54
Aspirant

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

What Firmware version is currently loaded?  == v3.2.10.11_1.2.12.  I had serious packet-drop issues with the previous V3.2.9.2_1.2.4 version.  Once updated to v3.2.10.11_1.2.12 pkt-drop issues went away by Upstream BW issues started.  
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too? = = Calix GigaPoint 803G, model #100-04255 10, 300 No = 300-02256 10
Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? == No, not yet.  I spend 1-2hrs a day maintaining my household network......with a wife and 2 kids yelling at me every hour, every day.   day starts out with an hour on the phone with the ISP Provider, debugging the BW issues.  By the end of the hour the ISP tech talks me into blaming the Orbi.  We have by then removed the Orbi, proven the ONT to ISP BW = 300/300.  Then by 9-10am I need to get back to work to keep a job in this very difficult time.  

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? == 2600sq ft
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router == 

I have spent a lot of time with the NG Tech support folks on this, I had previous issues with connections on each side of the house.

1) The RBR850 is on the 1st floor, at one end of the house

2) The RBS850 is on the 1st floor, at the other end of the house

3) The RBR850 is connected to the RBS850 with dedicated ethernet CAT6 cable

4) The "Advanced >> Wireless Settings >> Transmit Power Control = 50%

Note:  This fixed issues with different devices trying to communicate with farthest-distance RBR/RBS

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? ==

2.4GHz Channel = Auto

5GHz Channel = 48

Neighbors close but nto too close, lots are 1/2acre

I have tried messing with channels while working with your NG support folks, did not fix any issues.  

Please note = Upstream BW issues are there with dedicated ethernet into the RBR850 as well as WIFI, during all debug I plug directly into the ethernet port on the RBR850

 

Be sure to check your CTS and RTS values. If they are at 64, please change both to 2346. Reboot both RBR and wireless devices. == 

Yes, set to 2346

Mike H.
Message 3 of 13
mihealy54
Aspirant

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

What Firmware version is currently loaded?  == v3.2.10.11_1.2.12.  I had serious packet-drop issues with the previous V3.2.9.2_1.2.4 version.  Once updated to v3.2.10.11_1.2.12 pkt-drop issues went away by Upstream BW issues started.  
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too? = = Calix GigaPoint 803G, model #100-04255 10, 300 No = 300-02256 10
Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? == No, not yet.  I spend 1-2hrs a day maintaining my household network......with a wife and 2 kids yelling at me every hour, every day.   day starts out with an hour on the phone with the ISP Provider, debugging the BW issues.  By the end of the hour the ISP tech talks me into blaming the Orbi.  We have by then removed the Orbi, proven the ONT to ISP BW = 300/300.  Then by 9-10am I need to get back to work to keep a job in this very difficult time.  

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? == 2600sq ft
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router == 

I have spent a lot of time with the NG Tech support folks on this, I had previous issues with connections on each side of the house.

1) The RBR850 is on the 1st floor, at one end of the house

2) The RBS850 is on the 1st floor, at the other end of the house

3) The RBR850 is connected to the RBS850 with dedicated ethernet CAT6 cable

4) The "Advanced >> Wireless Settings >> Transmit Power Control = 50%

Note:  This fixed issues with different devices trying to communicate with farthest-distance RBR/RBS

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? ==

2.4GHz Channel = Auto

5GHz Channel = 48

Neighbors close but nto too close, lots are 1/2acre

I have tried messing with channels while working with your NG support folks, did not fix any issues.  

Please note = Upstream BW issues are there with dedicated ethernet into the RBR850 as well as WIFI, during all debug I plug directly into the ethernet port on the RBR850

 

Be sure to check your CTS and RTS values. If they are at 64, please change both to 2346. Reboot both RBR and wireless devices. == 

Yes, set to 2346

Mike H.
Message 4 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)


@mihealy54 wrote:

What Firmware version is currently loaded?  == v3.2.10.11_1.2.12.  I had serious packet-drop issues with the previous V3.2.9.2_1.2.4 version.  Once updated to v3.2.10.11_1.2.12 pkt-drop issues went away by Upstream BW issues started.  

 

You may need to connect 1 wired PC to your ONT and using PingPlotter.com app to see if you notice any bandwidth issues at the ONT. If not then reconnect the RBR and connect your wired PC to the RBR and test pingplotter again. You'll need to do this with ALL other devices turned OFF, including the RBS. Something you'll need to do when everyone is not using the system or has gone to bed. 


What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too? = = Calix GigaPoint 803G, model #100-04255 10, 300 No = 300-02256 10
Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? == No, not yet.  I spend 1-2hrs a day maintaining my household network......with a wife and 2 kids yelling at me every hour, every day.   day starts out with an hour on the phone with the ISP Provider, debugging the BW issues.  By the end of the hour the ISP tech talks me into blaming the Orbi.  We have by then removed the Orbi, proven the ONT to ISP BW = 300/300.  Then by 9-10am I need to get back to work to keep a job in this very difficult time.  

 

You might set aside some time after work or maybe later evening to do a factory reset. I would make a back up configuration to file first on the RBR

 

 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 5 of 13
mihealy54
Aspirant

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

Thank you for the "PingPlotter.com", I have used wireshark but have not used PingPlotter.  I just went to the website, little stiff pricetab at $349.

I am on my 3rd Orbi AX6000, previous (2) were broken.  The last one had intermittent packet drops, took months to diagnose and prove it was Orbi, returned to Bestbuy (cost me $60 for HW swap), new Orbi had no packet drops........just reduced Upstream bandwidth......bummer.

 

Sorry, Post was old....had trouble getting updates added to posting.......I have now "reloaded the v3.2.10.11_1.2.12  Firmware, performed factory reset, then rebotted several times'.....SAME REDUCED BW UPSTREAM, bummer.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Mike H.
Message 6 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

You can use pingplotter for free as trial...

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 7 of 13
mihealy54
Aspirant

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

I have removed the Orbi from my ONT, ran many many speeds tests, all getting the proper bandwidth of DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps, all good.  Even ran my PC direct off teh ONT all day, throughout the day always got DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps, never any redcued BW opn the Upstream.

Connect back up the Orbi AX6000 and bummer......DS=300Mbps/US=60Mbps,

Reboot Router= all good = DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps,

24hrs later back to DS=300Mbps/US=60Mbps,

reboot router......

groundhog day over and over and over and over....

 

Mike H.
Message 8 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

Swap out the lan cable between the ONT and RBR. I recommend CAT6. 

I would make contact with NG support and have them help you collect debug logs from the RBR. 192.168.1.1/debug.htm

Enable WAN/LAN Packet Capture. Start the capture. 

 

You'll need to enable this after you reboot or reset the RBR. Speed test to collect one sample then wait the time frame, speed test again to collect the sample when the speeds drop. Hopefully NG can find out whats happening.

 

https://www.netgear.com/support/#

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 9 of 13
mihealy54
Aspirant

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

Thank you
I have started dialogue with the Netgear support folks.

I have spent 80hrs debugging, before engaging with NG, blamed my home....FTTH.... ONT..... ISP....etc.
It took me considerable amount of hours to convince the 1st-tier support that the problem is on the NG Orbi side.
Now I am engaged with the 2nd-tier support person, once again convincing them the problem is on the NG Orbi side.
They provided beta Firmware == no fix, same issues with Upstream bandwidth.

Now I am up to 100hrs debugging (not counting (2) previous defective AX6000s, suspect I have 1000hrs into debugging this product 😞 )

 

I like the packet capture debug tool, really helpful, will capture packets ahead of my daily conversation with NG support folks.  

Thank you, you have been more helpful than any previous NG support folks

Mike H.
Message 10 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

Hopefully 2nd level will get the NG folks to review this. 

Keep in touch with them.

@Blanca_O 

@ErnestTheGreat 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 11 of 13
mihealy54
Aspirant

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

Hello, I wanted to provide an update.  I wanted to thank "Furrye38" for all their help during this very challenging case. Thank you very very much

 

But Netgear Tech Support gets a huge "F".

Netgear as a company gets a huge "F"

I have returned my 3rd Orbi AX6000 to BestBuy, I did not get another AX6000 I bought a Linksys MX10 and I am very happy with it and ecstatic to be done with Netgear.

I will never, for the rest of my life ever ever ever buy another Netgear product.

I am going to document 100% honestly and precisely how pathetic and disgusting Netgear has been throughout my purchase of the single most expensive home router on earth and how Netgear treats people.

I challenge Netgear to allow my posting, I have left my contact information, I expect a reply.

 

Start:  I have had (3) Netgear Orbi AX6000 units since October-2019, each one of them had different, difficult, frustrating problems, each time I returned them to Best buy I thought I as getting a new/perfect unit……then within weeks a new problem arose.    Netgear obviously has terrible quality. 

I was lucky, I intentionally purchased the BestBuy Geek Squad extended warranty, I am very lucky I did or I would have thrown away $700.  Each time I returned the AX6000 I had to pay a new Geek Squad extended warranty few of $70 so now I am into this Netgear Router for “$700 + $70 + $70 + $70 == $910”.  A lot of money for a router that does not work, Netgear should be ashamed of themselves for selling such a “piece of crap”.

Recap:

I have bought (3) Netgear Orbi AX6000 Mesh Home Routers == all (3) were broken == pretty pathetic quality from Netgear

I have had (4) cases with Netgear direct technical support

I have invested hundreds and hundreds of hours of effort to work with Netgear Support folks.

  • About now you are getting the appreciation for why I am so happy I returned this piece-of-junk and bought Linksys!!!!!!

 

I am going to skip the 1st (2) defective Orbi AX6000 broken units (and 2 cases) and focus only on the 3rd one, the most painful of all of them.

 

3rd and last Orbi AX6000::

  1. I pay my ISP for DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps
  2. About 1-month ago I started having problems with the Orbi AX6000, this was very shortly after Netgear pushed the latest Firmware onto it (v3.2.10.11_1.2.12).
  3. My upstream bandwidth reduced to 60Mbps, if I rebooted RBR850 router I would get back 300Mbps, then by end-of-day reduced to 60Mbps, reboot….repeat (groundhog day).
  • I was having trouble with work video calls, if I turned on video the audio would get choppy.  So I had to use audio-only for all of my work conference calls.  Not a good thing during this serious pandemic and trying hard to keep a job. 
  1. I knew, of course Netgear would blame my ISP.  I spent significant amounts of time debugging with the FTTH ISP Provider.
  • I removed the Netgear Orbi AX6000 from my FTTH ONT.  Made sure nothing else was connected to the internet line.  One PC connected to one ONT, point-to-point.
  • I ran extensive speed tests, rebooted several times, tested many different types of media. 
  • All good “One PC connected to one ONT, point-to-point through the ONT” == Correct bandwidth = DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps == GREAT
  1. Connected Netgear Orbi AX6000 back to the ISP ONT box. 
  • Ran speed tests == all good, got proper BW == DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps
  • Ran all day, towards end of day the Upstream bandwidth would reduce to 60Mbps (downstream was ok at 300Mbps). To be sure nobody in the house was taking all the bandwidth I would block every PC aside from my one-PC.
    •   Just to remind …..my service == DS=300Mbps/US=300Mbps
  • I would reboot RBR850 Orbi Router, perform speed tests == 300Mbps/US=300Mbps, all good, back to full BW
  • By the end-of-day the Upstream bandwidth would reduce again to 60Mbps
  • Same procedure every day for weeks (groundhog day again).
  • As I performed all of these tests for weeks I would document the steps, dates, times, bandwidths, screen captures, full 100% documented.
  1. Netgear Tech Support and Community
  • I opened a case with Netgear Tech Support and simultaneously posted a desperate case to the Netgear Community. 
  • 1st-line Support Case = 42605522
  • 1st line Netgear support person was actually great, he worked with me, we discussed all the steps I had taken, I passed many many docs to him.  He attempted to help but quickly realized the case needed to be escalated. 
  • He escalated to 2nd-level == Case = 42610658
  • So this is where the positive support of Netgear ENDS.
  • The 2nd level support person was terrible, arrogant, condescending, talks-over-you constantly, does not listen-at all.  Pretty much the worst support person I have worked with in 30 years.
    •  He insisted on repeating each and every debug step I performed, all pictures …..all BWs….all efforts….repeat hundreds and hundreds of hours of debug. 
    • Each time I had to debug this nightmare I have to get up at 5am, before the rest of may family woke up, before they had to work or perform school work.  I could not debug network during the day when my wife and kids needed to work.
    • I very politely explained the 2nd-leve support person that repeating each every step was really difficult. 
    • The 2nd level support person was once again rude and obnoxious, if he worked for me I would have fired him in 1 fs (fento-second)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • I swallowed hard, very politely and professionally requested the 2nd level support person move my case to a new person or his boss. 
    • As I was begging the 2nd-level support person to move my case….once again he would not stop talking over me…… if he worked for me I would have fired him in 1 fs (fento-second)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • Per “"Furrye38” community support person……..I used their Netgear debug packet-capture webpage……..
      • I captured packets right after reboot (good=300Mbps/US=300Mbps)
      • I captured packets at the end of day when upstream bw was bad (bad=300Mbps/US=60Mbps)
      • I uploaded the good and bad packet captures to the Case = 42610658
      • I once again updated the case with all debug efforts, begged the 2nd-level support person to move the case.
  1. REALLY GREAT NEWS
  • I GAVE UP
  • I USED ANOTHER $70 BESTBUY GEEK SQUAD RETURN POLICY FEE TO END MY TORTURE AND MISERY
  • I RETURNED THE NETGEAR ORBI AX6000
  • I BOUGHT THE LINKSYS MX10
  • THE LINKSYS MX10 WORKS
  • AMAZING
  • VERY HAPPY
  • MORAL OF THE STORY = DON’T EVER EVER EVER EVER BUY A NETEGEAR PRODUCT
  • FROM NETGEAR = I WANT A REFUND OF THE $210 I HAVE PAID FOR THE BEST BUY EXTENDED WARRANTIES.  YOU SOULD PAY ME FOR MY HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF TIME BUT MY BAD FOR BUYING YOUR PRODUCT. 
    • SEE CASE, SEND CHECK
Mike H.
Message 12 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Greatly Reduced Upstream Bandwidth (AX6000-RBR850/RBS850)

Sorry things didn't work out. Yes. After 3 different systems not working well it's time to find something that does. 

 

Good Luck in your new endeavors. Stay safe and healthy. 

@ChristineT 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

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