Reply

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Telnet is old, outdated and easy to sniff tool for sure, so I am in the process of getting dropbear (ssh) up and running.

 

Besides utelnetd which is the one running on orbi has the switch "-i br-lan" for binding to the lan-interface only, and internally I like to think I have control 🙂

 

That is correct I have done the firmware updates without doing the factory-reset, that would explain the different behavor.


@FURRYe38 wrote:

I would presume that you updated your system over the top of what you had and have not done a factory reset since. I tried this after v12 was applied to mine however mine was reset. I could not enable telnet on v12 using the enabler from a command line.


@Retired_Member wrote:

This is not correct, I still have my telnet enabled and running the fix I mentioned earlier. 

 

I dont know when they removed the possibilty to enable telnet, but for sure know that they dont clear the telnetd_enable from nvram on update

 

Output from cli today:

root@RBR850:/# version

Release version : Orbi 11AX Router RBR850 

                  U12H404T00/V3.2.17.12/1.4.14

           Time : Dec 28 2020 22:06:59

    CFE version : V1.0.12

root@RBR850:/# nvram show |grep telnet

telnetd_enable=1

root@RBR850:/# 


 



 

Message 176 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I tried reaching out to Netgear to make them aware of this issue, however because the 90 day support window expired I am unable to do so. 

 

I don't want or need phone/chat/mail support to ask questions on how to setup my router or how to turn on/off the router. I want to make Netgear aware there is a serious fault with their product that affects all customers. However with their 90 day policy in place Netgear effectivily blocks any communication. Again this shows that Netgear support is basically a department that has been set-up to monetize basic help questions and not to provide actual product support when it comes to solving bugs. 

 

Netgear needs to fix the DNS server / firmware.

 

It also affects other product lines:

This forum is scattered with it. Also @FURRYe38, it would be great if you would stop telling people to use workarounds without telling that there is an actual issue with the DNS server / firmware that only Netgear can fix. As you are doing in the thread I linked.

 

Fun fact, for the Orbi Pro they fixed this problem on 2020-09-08 with V2.5.3.110:

As it reads: Fixes a DNS problem that intermittently causes loss of connectivity. This could make you wonder that Netgear simply deemed the Orbi product line to be finished and no active firmware support is given and they moved on to other product lines. Considering no response up until this date has been given.

Message 177 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Users can reach out to forum moderators as well if they feel to let them know there concerns. 

 

Again. this issue is being reviewed with NG at this time. Not information on feedback or when any fixes will be forth coming as NG will NOT devuldge this information. 

 

Forum a forum perspective, this is beating a dead horse. Users will need to contact NG support about this and wait for the fix to appear. 

 

I post how I see fit. Thank you. 

 

Good Luck. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 178 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

@DNS_PROBE_FAIL 

I get the dilemma. Basically the Orbi would be a nice wifi system if the DNS server / firmware is working correctly. However in the current state it isn't. DNS handeling is basic functionality and the Orbi is failing at it. Causing DNS errors / timeouts, which in turn causes all sorts of end-user problems: websites not loading, streams stopping/not loading, mobile applications not loading correctly etc. 

 

I am actually looking in to switching the Orbi for the Asus XT8, as I am doubting whether or not Netgear will actually fix the issue. The reports on connectivity issues with the XT8 are not much, as far as I can tell. However the only downside is that the 2,4 Ghz channel is limited to 2x2. Which is a small step backwards as I think the Orbi has 3x3. This is only a downside though if you have 3x3 wifi-5 clients.

Message 179 of 579
arlomike
Apprentice

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

As a short term workaround, have you guys tried overriding the DNS server on your computers and just point to an open DNS server?   In my case, I spun up a piehole server and and repointed my computers to piehole.  Other IOT devices are SOL tho but users don't interface w/ those anyways.

 

Also, I find it stupid that Netgear doesn't allow you to set the DNS server it hands out in the DHCP settings.  I guess their protecting their paid security service but don't see why they can't allow that for it.  

Message 180 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Strange, I can imagine the engineering team not being aware if the support desk is blocking any escalation. If thats the case it really shows how bad the Netgear support department actually is.

However, the engineering team has fixed the same problem for the Orbi Pro, so in some way or form they have been made aware. See my earlier reply w/ link. The main difference I guess is that the Orbi Pro is aimed at business users for which they offer a different level of support.

I also don't understand the need for screenshots, since you explained it to the previous tech agent. The problem is pretty straightforward: The DNS server is not working properly. Which causes DNS errors and websites, streaming services, apps etc to fail.

Netgear needs to fix the issue with the DNS server / firmware.
Message 181 of 579
DNS_PROBE_FAIL
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Once the steam escaped my ears and I calmed down I decided to at least try to help everyone out, even if I return the system.

 

  • I disabled IPv6, switched to IPv4 and recreated the error going to a known-good website.  Error on NewEdge browser is: ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED
  • Took screenshot of the DNS error in browser and uploaded it to support
  • Pasted all logged events from Administration, Logs into support 
  • Backed up my router config, zipped and uploaded to support

So they have literally everything they have ever asked for from me, some things they've receved multiple times. 

Message 182 of 579
Ace321
Apprentice

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Unfortunately I have no hope that this issue will be fixed any time soon. I have provided all the information requested many weeks ago (logs, screen shots etc). Still no resolution. In my opinion, only solution is to set static DNS at each device level. If that solution is not acceptable to you, return/sell your device and move to other device.

Message 183 of 579
Mikey94025
Hero

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@DNS_PROBE_FAIL wrote:

Once the steam escaped my ears and I calmed down I decided to at least try to help everyone out, even if I return the system.

 

  • I disabled IPv6, switched to IPv4 and recreated the error going to a known-good website.  Error on NewEdge browser is: ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED
  • Took screenshot of the DNS error in browser and uploaded it to support

Curious - The DNS failure is intermittent so difficult to reproduce on demand.  Did you set something up to repeatedly visit a website in a browser until it fails or something like that?  It could be a useful testing tool for Orbi owners who believe they are unaffected.

 

 

Message 184 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I'm sure it affects the entire Orbi AX product line that use the same firmware. Other product lines like the Orbi AC or Orbi Pro use a different firmware. Which you can recognize by the firmware name/version.

The negative point in all of this is that a lot users are unable to identify the actual problem, which is understable as the users are consumers using consumer grade hardware, and Netgear support has been unable to acknowledge or identify this as an actual DNS server / firmware issue based on incoming reports.

Meanwhile this issue has been resolved last summer for Orbi Pro.

Netgear needs to fix the DNS server / firmware.
Message 185 of 579
DNS_PROBE_FAIL
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

No, I didn't set something up to repeatedly visit a website or list of sites, I just manually typed in one website after another - trying to use sites that I haven't been to recently so it's doing an actual DNS lookup and not using cache.  (Browsers can cache DNS lookups, chrome does this) Within about 10 sites or so I'll get the error every time.

 

To capture it for support, I just hit the print screen button on my keyboard then pasted into pain and saved to upload.  You have to act fast to get the screenshot this way because the browser will retry on DNS failures and usually resolves the second time.

 

Netgear needs to fix their firmware.

Message 186 of 579
Tobamory
Tutor

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I have to admit guys I bought 2 RBK852 a few months ago and it's been nothing but junk, constant DNS issues even when using cloud flare or Google it's still an issue, the main issue is WiFi drops, all devices are still connected but just no internet at all only off and on of the WiFi does it come back alive, after 4 months I've had enough, I've popped back in my mesh zyxel multi x and I'm back to bullet proof. I initially thought it was Apple devices but my PS5 right near a possible win on Apex legends WiFi dropped. Enough was enough.... all hardwired items are fine other than sporadic DNS issues no webpage for an instant then it refreshes...

 

very poor NETGEAR I'm going to create a ticket and try get these swapped but I guess it's firmware or poor development...

 

after reading 11 pages of people looking at logs telnetting etc honestly this thing should work, the Zyxels I have just work never fail I just wanted wifi6... 

 

does anybody get this issue in access point mode? I've not tried that or is it purely as a modem it's doing it. And why NETGEAR did dns with some proxy thing out the box daft...if I wanted a proxy I'd have a business and zscaler 

Message 187 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Users have reported the system works better when in AP mode. 

 

What ISP modem/gateway/ONT do you have connected to the RBR? 

 

NG has been using DNS Proxy for a LONG time. This is nothing new. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 188 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Just to make a clear statement: AP mode does not actually resolve the issue with the DNS server. In AP mode the DNS server (to be specific: DNS proxy - dnsmasq) of the Orbi is not used anymore, it is bypassed. This functionality then gets handled by a third party router, for example the router of your ISP or another router you need to place before the Orbi router.

 

I can understand you're going to return this product as you're still within the return window. I unfortunately don't have that option anymore. It is ammendable that you even tried using this product in AP mode with an additional router, as the Orbi should be functioning correctly in Router mode.

 

Let us know to which other wifi system you're switching to. We can then too list that as a viable workaround. Because why place another router in front of the Orbi when you can just swap the entire Orbi system for one that has a working DNS server / firmware. Seems also like the best environmental friendly solution. 

 

@FURRYe38 Considering you're statement that Netgear has been using DNS proxy for a long time. This product clearly shows the lack of experience the support team, the engineering team and QA has with the actual implementation. The Telnet workaround that is directly targeting the used DNS server/proxy - dnsmasq  clearly shows that the engineering team did a bad job. So your statement holds no value.

Message 189 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Well if your saying that AP mode doesn't resolve this and if the handling is done by a 3rd party router in front of the RBR in AP mode, then you saying that the DNS issue is still seen? Seems that if the 3rd party router was handling DNS, then your saying the problem is there too?  Seems like others have already posted that AP mode does work. Check the history. 

 

The comment was for historical reference. If one has been a NG router user, one would already know this. NG has always had and stil uses DNS Proxy on there routers. Been like this since I joined them over 15+ years ago. Only other mfr I know of that allows users to disable this is D-Link. Maybe others. 

 

No value suggested. Take it for what you like. 

 

Anyways, all this is beating a dead horse. It's all the hands of NG now. Users need to either wait for the fix to appear or return there items and find something that does work. 


Good Luck. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 190 of 579
rgautier
Apprentice

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I personally have interpreted your input of "This is beating a dead horse" to "you shouldn't bother posting about this anymore".

 

However, at the same time, you yourself have posted that you will post as you wish when others have commented that they have found your posts to be less than helpful inputs on this issue. I find this rather hypocritical, but I will borrow your own argument.

 

Well, so shall we.  If we wish to continue to beat the dead horse, so that everyone else can SEE THE DEAD HORSE that we're pointing at, we will continue to fill up this board, and this thread with comments upon comments to ensure that Netgear forum moderators, engineers, and customers who wish to share their stories and experiences about this issue have this brought to the forefront. 

 

 

Message 191 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

@FURRYe38 

 

No claims are made that a third party router that is placed in front of the Orbi router as workaround to bypass the Netgear DNS server / firmware has issues with resolving the DNS.

 

The statement is that the Netgear DNS server / firmware is not working correctly, causing all sorts of DNS issues which cause connectivity issues, and that Netgear should fix their product.

 

Furthermore you're talking about that all of these talks is just beating a dead horse. I disagree. You're the one diluting this subject by making statements like: that Netgear has always used this proxy server (any value to this?) or giving workarounds as solution. Instead of explaining to other users that Netgear actually has an issue with their DNS server and that it should get fixed it, which just makes it seem that this product is all good. I've seen this in many similar threads. Well, wake up, this product firmware has a serious issue affecting all users that use this router in Router mode.

Message 192 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Enjoy then. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 193 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

The information about DNS proxy was again for the users post referencing DNS proxy. It is for his information and if finds value in it or not. 

 

We already know for you that are effected by this that is there is problem. I'm not denying this. I have seen and ready everone's posts about it. If I didn't feel that there was a problem for you that are affected by this, I would not have reached out to NG support on my own to relay this information. I hoped I would have done a curtesy  to you all in this regard in trying to help you guys out. This doesnt' help me any. I have NOT see this issue. Of course if I mention that, then again, I'm the bad guy. Sorry that I haven't seen this issue. If I had I would have also, again, contacted NG about this a long time ago about it. 

 

So I'm on your side, however you all get repetative in saying NG needs to fix this. You only need to say this a few times. Again, for those of you who are effected, you need to keep in contact with NG suppot. This problem IS beyond forum help. There is nothing else we can do here in the forums. Keep talking about it if you want to. Thats up to you. It may or may not help push NG to get the FW fixed any sooner. They seem to work at there own pace. 

 

Good Luck. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 194 of 579
Tobamory
Tutor

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I have 2 net connections at home one is Virgin Media UK with the new HUB 4 in modem only mode, the second I tried was a BT Adsl and Sam again
I know you all talk about DNS but am I right in thinking the WiFi dropouts are related or is yet another issue ? Anybody know
I’ve missed the Amazon return also so I’ll play the game with NETGEAR and then worst case pop them in the loft till it gets fixed or eBay them

As per my last post I don’t plan to buy anything else my ZYXEL MUlti X 3 node system was faultless for 2 years so it’s back in only benefit NETGEAR brought me was slightly faster WiFi on some devices and NETGEAR armour
Message 195 of 579
driph
Tutor

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I feel like it's related, when I have the dropouts, the first thing I see is the DNS error, then that machine experiences an outage for several minutes. Also, while it's happening, I'm still able to reach other machines on the network, but unable to ping the router.

Message 196 of 579
Garwoofoo
Apprentice

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@Tobamory wrote:
I have 2 net connections at home one is Virgin Media UK with the new HUB 4 in modem only mode, the second I tried was a BT Adsl and Sam again
I know you all talk about DNS but am I right in thinking the WiFi dropouts are related or is yet another issue ? Anybody know
I’ve missed the Amazon return also so I’ll play the game with NETGEAR and then worst case pop them in the loft till it gets fixed or eBay them

As per my last post I don’t plan to buy anything else my ZYXEL MUlti X 3 node system was faultless for 2 years so it’s back in only benefit NETGEAR brought me was slightly faster WiFi on some devices and NETGEAR armour

My system is working well now with the Virgin Media hub in router mode (wifi disabled), and the Orbi system running in AP mode. No dropouts, no DNS issues. Yes it's a workaround but it'll let you use your Orbi system if that's what you want.

Message 197 of 579
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

What Firmware version is currently loaded?

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite

 

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Would be related to a different issue with wifi dropouts.

 


@Tobamory wrote:
I have 2 net connections at home one is Virgin Media UK with the new HUB 4 in modem only mode, the second I tried was a BT Adsl and Sam again
I know you all talk about DNS but am I right in thinking the WiFi dropouts are related or is yet another issue ? Anybody know
I’ve missed the Amazon return also so I’ll play the game with NETGEAR and then worst case pop them in the loft till it gets fixed or eBay them

As per my last post I don’t plan to buy anything else my ZYXEL MUlti X 3 node system was faultless for 2 years so it’s back in only benefit NETGEAR brought me was slightly faster WiFi on some devices and NETGEAR armour

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR700, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 198 of 579
Mstrbig
Master

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

This is a puzzling issue, as I have several (more than 25) RBK753 systems running in router mode, as the only router connected to different ISPs and personal owned modems. 

Not one system experiences any DND errors. They all run smooth. 

I did have one system, that was connected to WOW network, that had DNS errors that turned out to be, the modem was being directed to West Point Ga servers, when the customer is in Tampa Bay. As soon as WOW reflashed the modem and rerouted to the proper DNS servers, the issue was gone. However, most of the time, my setups are configured to use 3rd party DNS servers, instead of the normal 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1.

I don't have any affiliation with Netgear, other than to use their product. We chose the orbi system because of its speed and reliability. And for the record, their spport is no worse than the competitors. 

I agree with @Furry. Constantly posting over and over, the dis-satisfaction with the product, and threatening to return it, doesn't help the issue. If you purchase a product and are unhappy with it, return it, sell it, give it away and find something that works for you.

Orbi is not really for novices. There are other user friendly mesh systems on the market, that are more plug and play. 

Orbi RBK53 System/RBR50/RBS50/RBS50. + Orbi Voice RBS40V
RBK753 system/RBR750/RBS750/RBS750 + RBK853 System/RBR850/RBS850/RBS850
SXK80 — Orbi Pro AX6000 WiFi 6 Tri-Band WiFi System
There's always a logical answer, if you have all the facts!
Message 199 of 579
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Then you should login to your router using Telnet and actually see this issue happening right in front of you. As the errors the DNS server/ dsnmasq produce will be right there in the logs (internal). The reason? Because dnsmasq is badly configured - this you can see when you login using Telnet. So there is no way around it. It's factual.

Hence the reason why Netgear did fix this issue for the Orbi Pro. As it's an actual problem affecting everyone.

Netgear should fix the DNS server/ firmware for the Orbi AX.
Message 200 of 579
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