Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

The firmware update fixed the daily reboot at random time of the Orbi RBR850 and RBS850. I rarely had them up for more than 48 hours. That was a real nightmare. It would crash and reboot in the middle of a Team meeting or while watching a Netflix. We went on holidays for a week and without any human activity on the network, it rebooted twice !

The third satellite was key to lower wireless backhaul network drops that also required either waiting +15 minutes or a reboot of the whole setup to get connection up. I have a fairly large house (actually two that I joined) and 3 floors. So now I have a satellite doing the relay between two others and I haven't had any connection drop since 36 hours !

 My cable operator drop the connection at night weekly but without notice for maintenance on their network. And they also have long downtime when some company cut the fiber to install a trainline or something else. Adding the peplink Balance 20X router was a fix for removing DNS issues AND add failover of my 400 Mbps cable connection with a backup 150 Mbps LTE connection.

Netgear has an Orbi that allow failover on a LTE but's is a small wifi 5 model so I picked a peplink Balance 20X ($399 on Amazon).

It's not a consumer router, it's a fairly advanced router that has many smart features : solid dns server, L2TP IPSec VPN access, remote management via InControl, SpeedFusion connection bonding, etc. 

With it's 5Ghz backlink the Orbi AX is still the best Wifi 6 mesh on the market so in combination with a peplink router for failover and advanced routing, I have a state-of-the-art Wifi meash solution. The total cost ($1400) is still competitive when I look to other comparable solutions. 

My PC is PHYSICALLY wired to the Orbi - I've overridden my PC DNS to point straight out to Google DNS due to the errors I get from the Orbi...but I wanted to upload this benchmark to demonstrate just how slow, compared to an actual local caching DNS server (my cable modem) it is in comparison.  (This doesn't account for errors/rejected lookup issues.)

Image didn't upload right..

I PERSONALLY think Netgear has fudged with dnsmasque for the purpose of data harvesting - to track all the websites users visit for data collection. 

The reason why they can't seem to fix the issue, TO ME, is that it likely breaks their data collection.  They can't  figure out how to implement dnsmasque properly without breaking their data collection process.

Dnsmasque is a pretty straightforward implementation that no one else seems to have problems with unless the base dnsmasque code has problems.

I've reached the end of my rope with this DNS issue.  I love the performance of the router outside of the DNS issue, and since I can't return it I'm thinking the best route forward is to throw it in AP mode and put another router in.  That seems utterly ridculous in my mind to solve such a basic glaring error, but I feel it's cost effective to at least give it a try.

It sounds like others have gone down this route.  Can you provide what router you used that behaved well with the Orbi?  I'm not looking for something super complex, just stable and won't impact the speed.  Would like to avoid Netgear products for that for obvious reasons.  Thanks for the help!

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msinex wrote:

I've reached the end of my rope with this DNS issue.  I love the performance of the router outside of the DNS issue, and since I can't return it I'm thinking the best route forward is to throw it in AP mode and put another router in.  That seems utterly ridculous in my mind to solve such a basic glaring error, but I feel it's cost effective to at least give it a try.

 

It sounds like others have gone down this route.  Can you provide what router you used that behaved well with the Orbi?  I'm not looking for something super complex, just stable and won't impact the speed.  Would like to avoid Netgear products for that for obvious reasons.  Thanks for the help!

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I've been using my trusty Asus RT-AC68U, which is what i used before going mesh (yes, I know Asus has AiMesh, but wanted to try something different).

It's been working great - all the features and controls that Orbi lacks (QOS) or wants to rip people off for (Armor/parental controls), without the DNS issues that apparently Netgear's coders are not capable of/don't have the skill to fix.

I change routers every few years anyway, even if there's nothing wrong.  In the switch from Asus, as stated earlier, I wanted to try mesh because I was using a TP-Link extender with the Asus for a certain part of my house.

So in a few years, when it's time to try something new, it won't be Netgear.  Too bad, I USED to use Netgear stuff many years ago ala the WNDR4500 and was completely satisfied with it, which is why I gave Orbi a shot. 

This has been a constant issue for many of us through multiple firmware iterations, so I don't think it is a firmware update issue.

Thanks tak1313 , do you use it in combination with the Orbi mesh in AP mode?

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msinex wrote:

Thanks tak1313 , do you use it in combination with the Orbi mesh in AP mode?

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Yes - 68U as the router > Orbi in AP mode connected to the LAN port of the Asus (wireless backhaul to the satellite).

The one disadvantage if you're the type to contantly looks at what's connected to the satellite versus main router signal is that you have to log in to Orbi's page to see - the list of connected devices on the router (Asus in this case) will always show all devices as a wired connection.

My service is only 100mpbs so the Asus does not introduce any speed issue, but if you have a gig service, you may want a router with a bigger WAN input (2.5gbe, etc.), or you won't get TRUE gig service out of the LAN ports - though most people wouldn't even notice, because the NEED for TRUE gig service tends to be in the mind for most consumer users.

I don't remember what thread I posted my OPINION in, but my OPINION is that Netgear's coders don't have the skill/can't fix the DNS issue because I THINK they fiddle with dnsmasque to do data harvesting of IPs users visit (rather than using the vanilla/raw dnsmasque).  They can't figure out a way to make dnsmasque work properly AND have their data harvesting cake too.

Forgot to mention - turn off the router's wifi/radios since you're using Orbi for wifi.  Also, I use the LAN ports of the Asus for the three things I keep wired (two Synology's and a printer) - the fourth LAN port being used for the Orbi.

If you want to do something on the cheap, Ubiquity's ER-X router works wonders. Wired router only. Have had my Orbi system behind one of those. Works great. There pretty inexpensive as well. 

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FURRYe38 wrote:

If you want to do something on the cheap, Ubiquity's ER-X router works wonders. Wired router only. Have had my Orbi system behind one of those. Works great. There pretty inexpensive as well. 

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I also have an Edgerouter Lite (a little more expensive than the ER-X (Edgerouter X)).  It would actually be faster for this purpose - especially with hardware offloading enabled.  If you have gig service, the Edgerouter 4 will be even faster.  Went with my trusty Asus, as I like the UI (cooler graphics), and it does everything I want from the router side, especially running Merlin.

Edgrouter (like MikroTik) can be a double edged sword if you're a home user and not a network geek.  They have GREAT network information/control having a history in enterprise networking, but if you're not familiar, it will be a STEEEEEEP learning curve to get everything out of them.

FYI if you want to go this route, at this time, I believe the MikroTik hEX (RB750Gr3) goes for a little less than the Edgerouter X, and is just as capable.

If you're an open source kinda guy, you can also run OpenWrt on the Edgerouter.

The ER-X isn't too bad for users to setup though I agree can be complex. Though out of the box the ER-X works well. Only thing I had to do is enable HW NAT so it would work on 1Gb WAN to LAN. After that, it's a solid router. I used mine for past 6 months doing heavy downloads of software builds. 

I use a peplink Balance 20X as a router. I connected the Orbi AX6000 Router in AP mode in a LAN port and I disabled the internal AP of the peplink. Everything works fine except that the RBR850 reboot around once a day at random times. I have 3 satellites RBS850 and they reboot 2 to 3 a week on average. I still don't understand why the reboots. I am on the firmware V3.2.18.1_1.4.14. 

Might post a new topic regarding your mysterious reboots. Maybe we can help you troubleshoot that. 

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BriceLB wrote:

I use a peplink Balance 20X as a router. I connected the Orbi AX6000 Router in AP mode in a LAN port and I disabled the internal AP of the peplink. Everything works fine except that the RBR850 reboot around once a day at random times. I have 3 satellites RBS850 and they reboot 2 to 3 a week on average. I still don't understand why the reboots. I am on the firmware V3.2.18.1_1.4.14. 

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Wow... long thread. 

Guys, DNS issues are basically caused by the location of resolv.conf file. Move it out of /tmp and it'll work perfectly. I too had the same problem and it was fully resolved a few months ago after moving that file and restarting the dnsmasq process while pointing to the new file.

It's a matter of just a bad QA and laziness by Netgear. Call them and demand that they fix it. 

And can you explain how to move that file to us? 

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stsh wrote:

Wow... long thread. 

Guys, DNS issues are basically caused by the location of resolv.conf file. Move it out of /tmp and it'll work perfectly. I too had the same problem and it was fully resolved a few months ago after moving that file and restarting the dnsmasq process while pointing to the new file.

It's a matter of just a bad QA and laziness by Netgear. Call them and demand that they fix it. 

 

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FURRYe38 wrote:

And can you explain how to move that file to us? 

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stsh wrote:

Wow... long thread. 

Guys, DNS issues are basically caused by the location of resolv.conf file. Move it out of /tmp and it'll work perfectly. I too had the same problem and it was fully resolved a few months ago after moving that file and restarting the dnsmasq process while pointing to the new file.

It's a matter of just a bad QA and laziness by Netgear. Call them and demand that they fix it. 

 

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Anyone with basic linux skills should be able to do it. 

Send a magic packet to the router to enable telnet. Login using your admin account.

look at the processes and find the dnsmasq. Notice how it points to the /tmp/resolv.conf ???

just copy the resolv.conf to another location. I created one in /tmp/somename/  but anything will work as long as it's not in the actual /tmp

And then strart the dnsmasq process again but poiinting to the newly created file. Kinda like this: 

/usr/sbin/dnsmasq -h -n -c 0 -N -i br* -r /tmp/somename/resolv.conf -u root

this should resolve the dns issues until the box is restarted.

If you want the new path to survive restart you'll have to be a bit more creative with a tiny bash script to run on startup and do this for you.

make a file called dnsmasq in /overlay/upper/usr/sbin - it will hide the original from the os. Edit the file and insert a few lines to do what we just did above. Create a directory and a resolv.conf file inside. And add 2 dns servers into your new resolv.conf file

and then start the dnsmasq process.

The basic idea is that when os starts it'll run your new dnsmasq which in turn will make a new resolv.conf and start the real dnsmasq process but using the new conf file. Simple.

There are might be better ways to run a script on startup but this works so why not? But let me reiterate. This is a workaraound for a problem created by the stupidity and laziness of NG. And they should really be the ones to fix this 

You able to do that on current recent version of FW? I presume no as NG removed telnet feature a few versions back. Even using the telnet enabler doesn't work anymore. 

Work around seems kind complex for those who do not have "basic linux" skills. 

you might be correct regarding telnet. I did this a few months ago on an older firmware. Not sure about the new one.

I think v25 was last version that you could enabletelnet and it worked. :smileyembarrassed:

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FURRYe38 wrote:

I think v25 was last version that you could enabletelnet and it worked. :smileyembarrassed:

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guess what. You are correct.

This crap updated itself, most likely a few days ago. This might also be the reason I started having this upnp issue all of a sudden. In any case the dns change is most likely gone and the telnet access is also gone.

At the moment I only see one solution. Unplug the internet to block it from updating itself. Downgrade the router and ap. Enable telnet and change all the nvram parameters related to auto update to disabled. And then do the same as above.

It's just an untested idea but looks like too much pain to go through this. Might be easier to eat the cost and get a decent router from a different vendor.

You can try the following to see if blocking the update services will work:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBR850-Frequent-Disconnects-Starting-March-9th-AM-EST/m-p/1875855/highlight/true#M2240

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-auto-update-domain/m-p/1499659/highlight/true#M22873

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stsh wrote:

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FURRYe38 wrote:

I think v25 was last version that you could enabletelnet and it worked. :smileyembarrassed:

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guess what. You are correct.

This crap updated itself, most likely a few days ago. This might also be the reason I started having this upnp issue all of a sudden. In any case the dns change is most likely gone and the telnet access is also gone.

At the moment I only see one solution. Unplug the internet to block it from updating itself. Downgrade the router and ap. Enable telnet and change all the nvram parameters related to auto update to disabled. And then do the same as above.

It's just an untested idea but looks like too much pain to go through this. Might be easier to eat the cost and get a decent router from a different vendor.

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Why am I not surprised?

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FURRYe38 wrote:

You can try the following to see if blocking the update services will work:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBR850-Frequent-Disconnects-Starting-March-9th-AM-EST/m-p/1875855/highlight/true#M2240

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-auto-update-domain/m-p/1499659/highlight/true#M22873

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stsh wrote:

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FURRYe38 wrote:

I think v25 was last version that you could enabletelnet and it worked. :smileyembarrassed:

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guess what. You are correct.

This crap updated itself, most likely a few days ago. This might also be the reason I started having this upnp issue all of a sudden. In any case the dns change is most likely gone and the telnet access is also gone.

At the moment I only see one solution. Unplug the internet to block it from updating itself. Downgrade the router and ap. Enable telnet and change all the nvram parameters related to auto update to disabled. And then do the same as above.

It's just an untested idea but looks like too much pain to go through this. Might be easier to eat the cost and get a decent router from a different vendor.

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I'm by no means an expert from a networking standpoint and don't really want to have to do my own coding.  Just looking for a stable router that will work with the Orbi where I can do things like static IP, port forwarding, etc.  Oh...and DNS service that works...that would be good.  Any other experiences out there that have worked?  Thanks!