New - RBR850 / RBS850 Firmware Version 4.6.8.5 Released

[FURRYe38]

Saw same behavior on my 8 series as well. Power fluctuated. Eventually if the power went low, it would go low battery. This is the ping ponging of the NEST not being able to maintain or stay locked on to the main wifi signal. I found that with my one 3rd gen nest, greater distance between it and the RBR or RBS would not produce this problem. However with mine, my 1 3rd gen is at around 4-5 feet from the RBR. Even at 100%, the nest would not keep locked on and ping pong around thus draining the battery. Since then I found that 50% and reducing the RBS by one, manual channel 1 and 40, CTS 64, maintained nest battery. I just returned from a week+ away from home and the nest maintained battery fine. I don't use Guest Network here. I believe I tested two RBS and test 25% and seemed to work as well. 

There is a LONG historical thread regarding NEST and Orbi AX systems. 

I also think that NEST wasn't really meant to support stand alone connections with a home air system. I presume NEST may have intended to have users connect the power wire and possible that the battery is for when the home power is lost, there is some operation of the controller. Maybe not meant to be a primary use or configuration of these controllers. 

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@Timtech wrote:

I have had these two gen 3 Nests running with the same HVAC system for 2 to 3 years.  I never had an issue.  All I replaced was the Orbi RBK53 with the upgraded Orbi 853 this week and now they are running out of power on the primary network (router and satellites in the exact same as the 53 had)

I understand that without the C wire it charges when it has idle power.  

I'm almost hoping they run out of power on the Guest network like they do on the primary.  That would make sense since it's the same router and satellites with different ssids.  (I never ran a guest network on the RBK53) I will keep testing this week and plan to buy the Nest power in the next couple days for a permanent solution.  Now it's just engineering curiously on why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.  Why I see the power go up on the guest network and draw down on the primary until it disconnects.

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[Timothy88]

@Timtech 

Was there a different thermostat there before the Nest?

I would look to see if you have any spare wires running to HVAC transformer and if there are I would just run the common wire, it's just better in the long run. 

[FURRYe38]

In my case, was a new building and installed wire set before sheet rock went up. 

I just haven't installed or connected the power wired. Yet.

[Timothy88]

Nest most likely did the power stealing in an effort to be able to co-exist with older two wire systems that didn't have a common. The Nest does seem to favor HVAC systems over say a hydronic fossil fuel system, especially in a duel fuel/dual transformer system.  I have gone many rounds with their senior support on this.  The batteries in these and even older Honeywell thermostats I don't believe were never intended to run on battery alone.  Honeywell, Ecobee, etc. will all recommend that you install them with a common wire so they have a constant power source. 

Ever since google acquired nest they pretty much suck at addressing these issues, google pretty much stagnated the technology. 

[FURRYe38]

Ya, I wasn't happy when they got bought up. I attempted to ask them to put notification in the app that would let users know if the controller lost wifi connection or reported low battery. It fell on deaf ears. 

NG I believe had a hard time working with them on these issues as well back in 2020. 

[Timtech]

I believe I can say that moving my Gen 3 Nest Thermostats to the guest network has resolved my battery draining issue.  If I put them on my primary SSID with a full battery charge, they will drain in about 6 hours and go offline.  I repeated this test for days and kept getting the same results.

I have done nothing but put them on my guest SSID and they have been fully charged for 72 hours so far on their own.

Right now I'm sticking with the 1 & 40 channels and CTS at 64 for both 2.4G and 5G since it seems to be working like it did for me for the last several years on the RBK53 with 1 router and 2-3 satellites.  Which reminds me, I should put the router and 4 satellites up for sale now that I seem to have a working infrastructure.

It doesn't make sense why one network in the same devices works for 3 days and the other only works for 6 hours.  I will report back if I ever seem them drop again - but for now, I'm done testing.

Just an FYI incase anyone runs into the same issue.

[FURRYe38]

FYI for me, I saw some drain last week with mine. Reducing the power to 25% worked. I saw my 3rd gen go off line and was off line for 14 hours before I noticed. I had then reduced the power output to 25% and for unknown reasons, the NEST reconnected on it's own and the low battery message was no longer present. 

Since then our AC systems maintenance people stopped by on a scheduled check up of the system. They went ahead and attached the C(common) wire to the NEST and connected it to the system. So no more worries about battery drains. 

Good luck. 

[plsee74]

Hi NG team,

I upgrade the firmware on my RBR 853. It was running fine but after a day, I notice that the WI-FI occasionally get disconnected. 

Below are the statistic.  

PS: I did not reset the router to factory default after the firmware was upgraded.  

Wifi Configuration 

[ATL_Wolf]

I have an RBR850 connected to AT&T Fiber in bridge mode and two RBS850 satellites in my configuration. I have two dwellings on my property, each with its own Apple HomeKit setup. I've had this setup just over 1.5 years and it's been amazing until now. The 4.6.8.5 update itself was uneventful on the satellites and router, everything reconnected just fine afterwards without performing a factory reset. However, within two days of installing the firmware updates both of my Apple HomeKit homes now show the dreaded "no response" on all 3rd party devices (the HomePods and Apple TV devices all work fine). 

Strangely, while the 3rd party devices show no response and all HomeKit hubs are showing standby (typically one for each dwelling shows connected), the HomeKit automations are still running just fine every day. Meanwhile, the manufacturer apps for August Lock, Lutron Caseta, Belkin WeMo and Meross are all functioning just fine on their own. 

I'm hoping someone else has experienced this issue along with the 4.6.8.5 update. Searching online I did see HomeKit devices showing no response was a problem back in 2018 and was resolved by another round of firmware updates at the time. I'm hoping that's the case here as well. It seems like a huge oversight to not test functionality for IoT devices prior to rolling out an update (true for Google, Alexa and HomeKit).

I'm tempted to purchase a Linksys Atlas 6E setup with two satellites to see what happens with HomeKit, but the thought of spending another $1200 on top of the $1000 I spent on the Orbi isn't an option. Here's hoping a fix is in the works!

Regards,

Wolf

My setup:

AT&T Fiber running in bridge mode | RBR850 v4.6.8.5 | two RBS850 Satellites v4.6.8.5

IoT devices:  Arlo with 10 cameras | Lutron Caseta with 100+ devices | 8 Belkin WeMo outlets | 10 Meross outlets | 7 HomePods | 6 Apple TVs 

[bullm00n]

Homekit seems fine here and I've been running the update for 10 days, in AP Mode.  I have some Sonos, a lot of Hue Lights, some Ecobee, some Marantz connected, and they are all OK.

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@ATL_Wolf wrote:

...within two days of installing the firmware updates both of my Apple HomeKit homes now show the dreaded "no response" on all 3rd party devices (the HomePods and Apple TV devices all work fine). 

...

Regards,

Wolf

My setup:

AT&T Fiber running in bridge mode | RBR850 v4.6.8.5 | two RBS850 Satellites v4.6.8.5

IoT devices:  Arlo with 10 cameras | Lutron Caseta with 100+ devices | 8 Belkin WeMo outlets | 10 Meross outlets | 7 HomePods | 6 Apple TVs 

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[ATL_Wolf]

Thanks for the speedy reply bullm00n! Glad you are able to confirm your HomeKit setup is working ok after the update. After I posted earlier, I had gone so far as to briefly set DMZ on one of the two Apple TVs designated as a Home Hub to troubleshoot, no luck there either.

False alarm evidently in reference to the firmware update on the Orbi. After your reply, I went Apple's route of signing out of iCloud on the two Apple TVs designated as Home Hubs, restarted each for good measure, signed into iCloud on each and now both homes in HomeKit are working normally.

In the 4+ years I've been using HomeKit I've never had to do that. Thanks Apple! I'll post back if it looks like it's still an issue with the Orbi setup.

Regards,

Wolf

[FURRYe38]

Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router been performed since last update?
Be sure to restart your network in this sequence:
Turn off and unplug modem.
Turn off router and computers.
Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on computers and rest of network.

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS📡 to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite 📡

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@plsee74 wrote:

Hi NG team,

I upgrade the firmware on my RBR 853. It was running fine but after a day, I notice that the WI-FI occasionally get disconnected. 

Below are the statistic.  

PS: I did not reset the router to factory default after the firmware was upgraded.  

Wifi Configuration 

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[Garwoofoo]

So here's a strange observation, something that isn't causing any direct problems but might possibly help to inform other things that are going on? Firmware version 4.6.8.5 here.

I'm looking at the Advanced / Statistics display on my Orbi router. It appears the LAN ports are periodically resetting themselves in terms of their uptime.

So my system has a current uptime of 7 days 15 hours. The uptime on the router and both satellites matches that, according to their various debug pages. On the Statistics page, the WAN port, the two WLAN entries and the WLAN backhaul also show 7 days 15 hours. But the LAN ports (1,2,3,4) all show an uptime of 3 hours.

Yesterday evening when I checked them, the LAN ports had an uptime of 90 minutes. So they have "reset" at least twice in the last 24 hours.

The system hasn't rebooted itself and indeed this doesn't appear to be causing any issues with connectivity at all. At the time the "reset" happened yesterday evening, we were watching a streaming movie with the TV connected via one of these LAN ports. So it did not cause any interruption in the connectivity.

It's a strange one and I'm not really concerned because it isn't causing any issues but I thought I would flag it here in case it helps with debugging or other issues identified with this firmware.

[FURRYe38]

Interesting. 

What is connected on the LAN ports? 

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@Garwoofoo wrote:

So here's a strange observation, something that isn't causing any direct problems but might possibly help to inform other things that are going on? Firmware version 4.6.8.5 here.

I'm looking at the Advanced / Statistics display on my Orbi router. It appears the LAN ports are periodically resetting themselves in terms of their uptime.

So my system has a current uptime of 7 days 15 hours. The uptime on the router and both satellites matches that, according to their various debug pages. On the Statistics page, the WAN port, the two WLAN entries and the WLAN backhaul also show 7 days 15 hours. But the LAN ports (1,2,3,4) all show an uptime of 3 hours.

Yesterday evening when I checked them, the LAN ports had an uptime of 90 minutes. So they have "reset" at least twice in the last 24 hours.

The system hasn't rebooted itself and indeed this doesn't appear to be causing any issues with connectivity at all. At the time the "reset" happened yesterday evening, we were watching a streaming movie with the TV connected via one of these LAN ports. So it did not cause any interruption in the connectivity.

It's a strange one and I'm not really concerned because it isn't causing any issues but I thought I would flag it here in case it helps with debugging or other issues identified with this firmware.

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[bullm00n]

Not seeing that here - I'm only using one LAN Port, but it has been up the entire 10 days.

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@Garwoofoo wrote:

So here's a strange observation, something that isn't causing any direct problems but might possibly help to inform other things that are going on? Firmware version 4.6.8.5 here.

I'm looking at the Advanced / Statistics display on my Orbi router. It appears the LAN ports are periodically resetting themselves in terms of their uptime.

So my system has a current uptime of 7 days 15 hours. The uptime on the router and both satellites matches that, according to their various debug pages. On the Statistics page, the WAN port, the two WLAN entries and the WLAN backhaul also show 7 days 15 hours. But the LAN ports (1,2,3,4) all show an uptime of 3 hours.

Yesterday evening when I checked them, the LAN ports had an uptime of 90 minutes. So they have "reset" at least twice in the last 24 hours.

The system hasn't rebooted itself and indeed this doesn't appear to be causing any issues with connectivity at all. At the time the "reset" happened yesterday evening, we were watching a streaming movie with the TV connected via one of these LAN ports. So it did not cause any interruption in the connectivity.

It's a strange one and I'm not really concerned because it isn't causing any issues but I thought I would flag it here in case it helps with debugging or other issues identified with this firmware.

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[Garwoofoo]

LAN ports are as follows:

LAN 1 - Hue lights base station

LAN 2 - a Netgear Wifi extender (WAC104) which sits in a garden office completely separate from the main house; there is no overlap between the two wifi networks

LAN 3 - not used

LAN 4 - a Netgear switch to which is connected multiple entertainment devices (TV, games consoles etc) plus a wired Orbi satellite

I don't think the "reset" is connected to activity on the LAN; I've seen this reset when the ports are in use (watching a streaming service) but also in the middle of the night when there would have been nothing more than background activity on the network. I've also seen it stay up for nearly 30 days without problem! All WAN ports "reset" at the same time.

As I say, it's a curiosity rather than a problem, as it doesn't appear to actually be affecting anything, but I'm curious to know what's happening.

FWIW I also observed this behaviour on the last firmware version (4.6.8.2) and was going to post about it then, however 4.6.8.5 came out and I've been monitoring it since then to see if it reoccurred. It was fine for 7 days following the upgrade, then two "resets" in 12 hours, now appears to be fine again. Network otherwise seems entirely stable.

[FURRYe38]

What is the model# of this switch? 

Wondering if you have seen this on other FW versions, possible something on your network could be a cause. 

Gather how often this happens if you can monitor this...

[plsee74]

Thanks. I did a reset and issue was resolved.

[Garwoofoo]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

What is the model# of this switch? 

Wondering if you have seen this on other FW versions, possible something on your network could be a cause. 

Gather how often this happens if you can monitor this...

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It's an 8-port Netgear GS308 switch.

I'd be quite surprised if it is anything on my network - as I said, I've seen this occur during the day but also in the middle of the night when network activity would have been minimal. Also it seems to be rather random, sometimes going for weeks without occurring and then sometimes more than once a few hours apart.

I'll keep monitoring and let you know if I detect any pattern to it.

[FURRYe38]

K. I have this same model switch though its at the end of a segment. 

We might be looking into this more closely....

[Validus]

I find all these newer Firmware to be the same great performance at the start, but degrade over time. Then still come up with delays and DNS "ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED" then refresh and display a webpage normally problem.

However over all that time experiencing it, I've notice one thing. If you have a power cut and all the Netgear 853 mesh goes down, it comes back smooth with great performance and no issues again. At least for a while. Same deal for every single firmware upgrade which requires the router and satellites to be power cycled.

Yet the issue seems to start occurring when all the network is up and working, but you disconnect from the Internet and reconnect with a new IP Address.

An IP Address change while keeping the power on appears to affect the router or mesh to start hanging DNS requests. Powering it off and on (each satellite and the router) fixes it. If the router boots up connecting to the ISP to get an IP Address, then the satellites connect in a sequence, it's all happy. 

My ISP will change the IP Address IPv4 on me every now and then, I believe that mine be what's confusing this mesh? IPv6 doesn't have that issue, but the ISP won't fully support that without tunneling (which it considers is insecure and google warns about being deprecated).

I've ruled out pretty much everything else out which might be causing it.

Short answer: Try to power cycle off your Router and Satellites if any issues. Then turn on the Router, let it connect to your ISP and get it's IP Address, then turn on each of the Satellites.

[FURRYe38]

So your still seeing DNS issues on yours? 

Is IPv6 enabled on your RBR? 

Have not seen any DNS issues to speak of while I had my 8 series online. Haven't seen any one else talk about DNS issue as well. Still wondering if this is something particular with the RBR and your ISP hardware and services. 

[Garwoofoo]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

We might be looking into this more closely....

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Just updating you on this - the system went over a week without issues, then I can see that the LAN ports again did a "reset" early this morning. At the time, network activity would have been minimal.

As before, this seems completely random, and didn't cause any issues when it happened. I'm treating it as a curiosity more than anything.

I am however seeing evidence of occasional reboots of my wired satellite, every few days or so, just going by the uptime on the debug page. This is more concerning. It doesn't appear linked to the LAN port resets. And I didn't see any spontaneous reboots of the satellites at all under 4.6.8.2. So I am monitoring this one closely.

[FURRYe38]

Ok. Are there any collisions seen on the Statistics window on the RBR? 

Do you happen to have a different model or brand LAN switch laying around?