Re: RBK853 - wired satellite

kildare · ‎2020-03-27

Hello, I'm currently running an RBR850 and 2 RBS850s (RBK853) in AP mode, all on firmware version V3.2.9.2_1.2.4.

One of the satellites is connected by cat 6 cable to one of the LAN ports of my router/firewall, as is the RBR850.

The router/firewall indicates 1Gb/s connection speed for both those ports.

Apparently all is working fairly well, no disconnections, but I find a problem on the web GUI of the RBR850:

the wired satellite is not recognized (marked "Disconnected"), as you can see in the image.

And all devices connected to that satellite are shown as "wired" to the Orbi router.

Accessing that satellite's web GUI all the connected devices are correctly recognized as on 2.4 or 5 GHz wireless.

If I use the Orbi app on an Android device connected to that satellite, even the app doesn't find any Orbi installation!

Moreover, curiously, if I turn off the RBR850 router, this satellite continues to work nicely, as it were a standalone access point (Internet access working, new wireless devices connection request accepted, etc.)!!

Till now I have blocked firmware auto updates through the firewall.

Before updating to the latest version V3.2.10.11 I'd like to know from users in a similar situation if at least this problem has been addressed.

Thanks in advance.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-27

For the RBS status to show correctly, you have to connect any and all RBS when wired directly to the back of the RBR or thru a LAN switch thats connected to the back of the RBR.

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

They can't be parallel connected to a router or a firewall device. This is not a bug. Orbi AC systems do the same thing.

I found one problem with v10.11 FW, when in AP mode, if RBS are ethernet connected to the RBR with a switch in the middle, the status fails to appear for the RBS on the RBR. Only wirelessly do the RBS appear correctly on the RBRs status page. Or if the RBR is in router mode, does the status work correctly with RBS connected with switch in the middle. I reported this to NG already.

@kildare wrote:
Hello, I'm currently running an RBR850 and 2 RBS850s (RBK853) in AP mode, all on firmware version V3.2.9.2_1.2.4.

One of the satellites is connected by cat 6 cable to one of the LAN ports of my router/firewall, as is the RBR850.
The router/firewall indicates 1Gb/s connection speed for both those ports.

Apparently all is working fairly well, no disconnections, but I find a problem on the web GUI of the RBR850:
the wired satellite is not recognized (marked "Disconnected"), as you can see in the image.
And all devices connected to that satellite are shown as "wired" to the Orbi router.

Accessing that satellite's web GUI all the connected devices are correctly recognized as on 2.4 or 5 GHz wireless.

If I use the Orbi app on an Android device connected to that satellite, even the app doesn't find any Orbi installation!

Moreover, curiously, if I turn off the RBR850 router, this satellite continues to work nicely, as it were a standalone access point (Internet access working, new wireless devices connection request accepted, etc.)!!

Till now I have blocked firmware auto updates through the firewall.
Before updating to the latest version V3.2.10.11 I'd like to know from users in a similar situation if at least this problem has been addressed.

Thanks in advance.

kildare · ‎2020-03-27

Thanks for the info.

Unfortunately as my network cabling has a star topology with the router/firewall in the center, a direct wired connection between RBR850 and the RBS850 is not possible.

Anyway, IMHO the fact where the RBS850 behaves as an independent access point when the RBR850 is turned off is a bit surprising, looking as the connection with the RBR850 is actually unnecessary...

kildare · ‎2020-03-27

BTW, as my router/firewall has an integrated 4-port gigabit switch where both the RBR and RBS are directly connected, I can't understand why mine is a different case than the third Orbi connection example...

@FURRYe38 wrote:
For the RBS status to show correctly, you have to connect any and all RBS when wired directly to the back of the RBR or thru a LAN switch thats connected to the back of the RBR.
https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

They can't be parallel connected to a router or a firewall device. This is not a bug. Orbi AC systems do the same thing.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-27

The actual operation probably works as you need it. It's only the status of the RBS with the RBR that seems to require the direct connection.

kildare · ‎2020-03-27

Well, then probably this is still a bug that needs to be fixed.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-28

Not sure if the parallel connection will ever be fixed. The main issue there is that Orbi systems seem to require some sort of specific traffic data that the RBR and RBS communicate with. Something that seems that most routers and firewalls don't seem to let pass thru when the RBR and RBS are parallel connected to those devices. You'd have to figure why routers and firewalls don't do this. The RBR and RBS need to be connected in serial configuration to get the status to work correctly. Router or AP mode.

I've already logged a bug report about v10.11 not working in AP mode with switches in between the RBR and RBS. This is bug that v10.11 brought about. All prior versions of FW before v10.11 work in AP mode with switches in between. If you configure the RBR for router mode and use switches in between the RBS, then the status works.

kildare · ‎2020-03-28

The problem probably comes from the RBR850 odd requirement to use the yellow port even when using the router in AP mode, differently from all the wifi routers I know, and even from Netgear's Nighthawk AX6000 WiFi Router (RAX80) that I own and was replaced by the Orbi system.

BTW, configuration settings available on the Nighthawk are miles ahead of the scanty options available on the Orbi, for ex. even the fundamental DHCP server functionality isn't available in AP mode!

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-28

Possibly. I know that the front or top LED status behaviors are tied to the WAN port for sure. ON both Orbi AC and AX. Been like this since the beginning.

DHCP services has never been a requirement for AP mode since when in AP mode there would be a different DHCP server upstream from the AP point. This hasn't been ever seen in home class HW. Possible some business class environments or certain wireless configurations where the HW supports this. Maybe Orbi Pro supports this. I don't know. Orbi doesn't support DCHP services in AP mode.

kildare · ‎2020-03-28

Then is the Netgear's Nighthawk AX6000 WiFi Router a business class device?

It looks to me that apparently Netgear doesn't know that in many cases provider supplied routers have very limited DHCP functionality and sometimes only available in the 192.168.1.x subnet...

Luckily in my country Amazon has extended the return period to May 31st, even for me that bought the Orbi in January.

So I have yet 2 months left to wait and see if Netgear will improve the Orbi AX or if some competitors will offer better products.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-03-28

No. Home class.

It's not really up to NG to know if any and all ISP provided HW is set to the same 192.168.1.1 string. NG and other router manufactuers do implement auto IP address changing features during there initial setup to detect the upstream modem or router if it uses the same IP address. This only usually happens with modems or ONT with built in router systems. Just depends on what the modem Mfr sets as there default IP address. Also these modems can be changed to use a different IP address as well. Unless the ISP locks out the users. Also some modem router combo units can be bridged as well, this will disable the LAN IP address on the modem thus passing thru a WAN side IP address to a down stream router which is preferred with using external routers. Many configurations and many factors to consider.

Thats a good, if Orbi AX isn't working for you then, by all means, return it and find something that best suits your needs.

Good luck.

kildare · ‎2020-04-16

After testing all the possible hardware & software configuration options to solve my problems, I eventually returned this still unfinished and unreliable system when operating in AP Mode, at least in my scenario (many thanks to Amazon that accepted the return after 3 months!).

On Amazon I bought the new Asus ZenWiFi AX system (6600 version): 2 packs with 2 devices each and spent in total less than for the RBK853.

Every device can be freely configured as router or satellite, so now I'm working with 1 router and 3 satellites.

Now all my issues are finally solved:

separate SSID for the 2.4 and the two 5 GHz wifi networks (one is for the backhaul but if needed it can be configured to be accessible)
no more disconnects of devices like Amazon Echos (even if just 10 meters away from the satellite and in open space)
the wired satellite finally works even with 2 gigabit switches in-between!!
complete professionally configurable wifi settings
all devices individually listed with their current wifi signal strength (I have more than 70 devices in my house, mostly wifi IoT controllers)
guest network correctly working, no suddenly appearing unprotected wifi network
USB 3.0 ports
web GUI much more complete and professional
Android app much more informative and well designed.

Some images (the double connection line means a wired satellite link)

Thanks to everybody for the help!