RBR850 wifi drops when moving around house, won't reconnect for several minutes

[dmcpublic10]

Hi everyone, hoping someone can help with this...I have a quite new (few months old) RBR850 and seven satellites (we live on a large plot, and thick walls and insulation mean that the signal doesn't travel far) on a fairly large network. Apart from the router, three of the seven satellites are connected via Ethernet while the rest have a standard 5G backhaul.

The issue I have is that when I move from one part of the house to another, the wifi signal (whether on my phone, iPad or laptop) drops such that it shows 0 bars  (or nothing at all) and no apps will connect saying I don't have an internet connection. However when I go to the wi-fi settings it shows me as connected to the wi-fi network! Toggling airplane mode, wifi on/off, etc doesn't work. I thought that a (rather annoying) workaround was to 'forget' the network altogether and then reregister the device, but I tried it this morning and that doesn't work either. It's particularly noticeable when walking from bedrooms (wireless satellites and router downstairs) to kitchen (wired satellite, a part of the house that has thick insulation, described as a kind of Faraday cage by my electrician). That may be correlative rather than causative, I don't know. Coming back into the Kitchen from the garden, the fault appeared; I have not been able to reproduce it coming in from the bedroom. Perhaps I'm not spending long enough, but I can be sure that coming down tomorrow morning, I won't be able to put a podcast on for 3 to 5 minutes until it reconnects.

I've also tried disabling the 'enable AX' features but that doesn't seem to help. I've fiddled with the channel settings and put 2.4GHZ on 06, and 5GHZ on 44. Firmware version is V4.6.14.3_2.3.12, and all satellites are showing a 'good' connection. In case it helps, we're in a fairly rural area, and I can see no other wifi signals around other than the occasional one from one of my Sky devices (I have Sky internet but have shut off the wifi in favour of the RBR850). The landline is a wireless 2.4GHZ device. I'm not suspicious of it mainly because I never had this issue on the system I have replaced, an RBR50.

To me there seems to be some sort of issue with the handshake whereby a device is handed over from one satellite to another (but perhaps that's just a little knowledge being a dangerous thing!). The issue isn't just on my device, my wife and kids also have it, and all devices are up to date. Hence my conclusion it's a Netgear issue. One possibility I've thought about is if I have wifi overload, ie too many satellites and overlapping signals? However as soon as I remove a satellite I get a signal desert in that part of the house. If anyone can point me to an app that would help me assess the signal strength from each individual satellite so I can move them around that would be great. In the meantime, any other ideas also hugely appreciated!

DMC

[tucsontico]

A few questions to help the forum troubleshoot the issue:

1) Are your mobile devices all Apple products? If so, is the "Private Address" option selected?

2) What type (make and model) MODEM do you have?

3) What is the square footage of your house?

At first glance, it would seem you have way too many satellites in use. However, with the building construction you alluded to, it may required. Try removing one sat at a time. Start with the one farthest from the router. Allow the system to "settle" for several minutes (5-10) after each sat shutdown before testing the connection.

Secondly, your RBR850 is on older firmware. The current firmware version is 7.2.6.21_5.0.20. When you update the firmware, be certain to install it on the satellites first BEFORE the router. Again, start with the furthest sat and use the web-based GUI NOT the phone app. (Better yet, is to connect via CAT6 ethernet cable and a laptop to each sat to update the firmware.)

Good Luck!

[dmcpublic10]

Hi, and thanks for the swift reply. Answers to your questions are:

1) Yes, mobile devices are all Apple products. Some have the 'private address' option selected, some don't. I've disabled it on mine, let's see how it goes tomorrow morning.

2) The modem is a Sky modem, model number ER110.

3) House is 2900 odd Sq Ft, not including garage and summerhouse which account for 2 of the 7 satellites, so 5 within the 2900sqft, only the kitchen satellite is wired. It's also a bit of a rabbit warren of adjoining rooms added at different times, with thick brick walls and the aforementioned signal killing insulation in the new kitchen part (no wireless signals, whether wi-fi, DAB or cellular, seem to get through it). But I also worry that I have signal overload so will try what you suggest.

Finally, thanks for the heads up about firmware - I just relied on the 'auto update' function! I have now located the firmware, downloaded, and will proceed to CAREFULLY manually update. 

Thanks once again, and I'll report back with any updates.

[tucsontico]

I believe you have way too many satellites even with your home construction limiting wi-fi signals. With so many sats in the system, your mobile devices are loath to switch nodes whilst moving around, hence dropped wi-fi. Wi-Fi is designed in such a way that competing signals cannot overpower each other. (Unlike folks talking in a pub. As one gets louder, the others have to raise their voices to be heard, causing no one to be heard.) Here's a link to an older article that details why Wi-Fi does what it does:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/802-eleventy-what-a-deep-dive-into-why-wi-fi-...

I have a 2900 sq ft house with attached garages totaling another 750 sq ft. My home is built with a concrete block stuccoed exterior with wood stud walls and drywall inside. I run an Orbi 850 with only 2 Sats in a wireless backhaul daisy chain. The distance between Sats is >30' and I get very good coverage with speeds up to 300 mbps at my farthest point from the farthest Sat. ( I have 900/20 ISP service).

Also, be certain the wired satellites are connected via CAT 6 STP ethernet cables, or better. Sounds like you are on a good path to solving the problem.

Keep us posted!

[dmcpublic10]

Hi tucsontico, a belated thanks for your previous posts, and a quick update: This is just to say that so far I've run the firmware updates, and changed the 'private wifi' setting on my phone, and the result is...inconclusive. When I come down to the kitchen, sometimes the wifi drops out on my phone, sometimes it doesn't.

I certainly take your point (and don't disagree!) about too many satellites. I also have a LOT of ioT devices, from fridges & dishwashers to light bulbs, floor heating systems and entire lighting rigs, so I'm sure that I am not short of a little interference. Do you have any advice for the best channels to set my 2.4 and 5ghz wifi to?

What does puzzle me about the wifi drop out is that it is most obvious when I move from the rest of the house (which has the router and several overlapping satellites, some wired, some not) to the Kitchen, which is as previously mentioned a bit of a signal black hole, and has in it just one, hardwired, satellite. Thus I would have expected it to be easier to connect here, not more difficult. Is there possibly some issue whereby the device resists switching from a wireless to a wired node?

In any event I am going to get on with the next steps that you suggest, which is to remove a satellite at a time and see if that helps. 

Thanks again, I'll update here when I have further info.

[tucsontico]

As far as the "best" channels go for 2.4 gHz and 5 gHz goes, the easiest answer is: "It depends." If you look on your iPhone under the "System Settings" WiFi area, do you see other networks from neighbors? If so, you can use the old Apple AirPort Utility to scan for WiFi signals and determine what channels your neighbors are on. If the signal strength is greater than those from your satellites (which will also show up on the AirPort Utility scan), I'd definitely set both 2.4 and 5 gHz on different channels. ( I believe the current school of thought is Ch 6 for 2.4 gHz and Ch 48 for 5 gHz are "best".) Lots of times "Auto" will prevent problems in a dense signal environment.

For your signal drop outing the kitchen, try swapping the current kitchen satellite with another one to see if it is hardware related.

Do you have any ethernet switches in your hardwired system? If so, be certain they are of the "Unmanaged" type. The Orbi system doesn't handle managed switches to well.

Good Luck!