Re: RBS850 satellites lose internet and gateway connectivity several times per day

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-07-30

I have been a satisfied Orbi AX customer since March (RBR850 + 3 RBS850 satellites, satellites are 30-40 feet away or on a different floor from each other). My Comcast modem is in bridge mode and the RBR850 handles routing. I also have my old RBR50 system (+ 3 RBS850 satellites) running off of one of the RBS850s for device compatibility for some old IoT devices and also an old Asus router hanging off of one of the RBR850 for guest network. Both the old RBS50 and the old Asus router are running in router mode so Double NAT for these (but they work fine). The problem I'm having is with my primary Orbi AX system where one satellite loses internet and gateway connectivity 2 or 3 times each day.

While the AX system is hardly set-and-forget and trouble-free, I've had it working well for my primary wireless needs and there were no performance or disconnect issues. About 2 weeks ago one of my RBS850 satellites would lose Internet connectivity each day. I had not changed the firmware or anything else that I recall. The symptom is that nearby wifi devices or the IoT home devices wired to that particular satellite would lose internet connectivity. I know exactly when it happens because (only) the nearby always-on Nest cameras would email out an alert. As soon as I unplug that satellite, everything connects to a different satellite or the base and internet connectivity is immediately restored.

I thought it might be a hardware issue with that particular satellite, so I swapped it out with one of my other RBS850s. The same day, the other satellite lost internet connectivity in the same way (so I put things back and concluded it's not a RBS850 hardware issue). I've tried leaving that particular satellite powered off, but then later that same day another of my RBS850s (in a different part of the house) lost internet connectivity and its nearby Nest cameras began complaining. I now have 2 of my RBS850s powered off to see what happens.

When the problem occurs (lost internet connectivity) I do have admin browser connectivity to the problematic satellite (192.168.1.193) but cannot ping the RBR850 (192.168.1.1). I can list the satellite's connected devices but don't see any IP conflicts or anything strange. If I switch my laptop to one of my compatibility wireless network, I can connect to the RBR850 admin website (192.168.1.1) and it shows the problemmatic satellite as connected and also lists its connected devices. I checked and there are no apparent IP conflicts for any of my ~50 devices.

My AX base and satellites are now all running the latest firmware (V3.2.15.32). They were running 3.2.15.25 when the problem first appeared a couple weeks ago and updating to the latest hotfix firmware hasn't helped. I tried doing a full reset of the base and every satellite, then restored the base config via a backup made last month, but the issue still occurs. I disconnected all of the wired devices to that one satellite, did not help. I also tried restarting all the wireless devices that apparently connect to that one satellite. I've tried turning off AX mode and also setting preamble from Auto to either Short or Long. None of these have fixed the issue so right now two of my RBS850 satellites are powered off (the third needs to stay on as an ethernet bridge to my work laptop). I just did this yesterday and don't know yet if my third RBS850 will start exhibiting the same issue now.

I'm at a loss of what to try to stop my periodic Orbi AX internet disconnects. I hate to have to put my old RBR50 system back in as the router and just use the RBR850 system in access point mode. Any other suggestions of what to try?

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-07-30

Does the problem still appear if you turn OFF the ASUS and other RBS50s and just run the 850 system alone?

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since applying v32?

I have not see any issues with mine on v32. Two RBS850s wired to RBR.

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-07-31

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Does the problem still appear if you turn OFF the ASUS and other RBS50s and just run the 850 system alone?

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since applying v32?

Yes, the problem occurs with just the 850 system alone. I've done some testing today, trying different modifications. I will also try doing a factory reset and setup from scratch this weekend to see if that helps.

The problem appeared today within a few hours (devices connected to the one RBS850 satellite lose connectivity with the internet and RBR850) after trying each of these changes independently:

Disconnected both the Asus and RBR50 from the RBR850
Turned off the DMZ setting on the RBR850 to the RBR50's IP address
Unchecked Disable IGMP Proxying on the RBR850
Checked Disable SIP ALG on the RBR850

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-01

Sounds like something going on with your system. Something to contact NG support about.

Might turn OFF the RBS and test just the RBR alone to see if the problem maybe central to the RBR.

I updated to v32 on my system and has been solid since going on while over a week ago. I have done 1 reboot since while testing for a problem I was having with a NEST controller and app. Swapping RBS around seem to have solved it though I haven't been able to reproduce that problem again. I think 1 RBS was in a bad state which may have caused the problem. Otherwise system has been up and running well. I'n using default settings instead of changing to CTS 2347. Leavng 20/40Mhz enabled instead of disabled. Only thing I have changed is manual channel 11 and 48.

McLong · ‎2020-08-01

I've run into a similar connection issues where the devices losing connection to the internet when connected to the satellite. The satellite never actually loses connection to the router and shows strong signal strength through the web GUI. I found that setting a static LAN IP address in the router causes this issue and am waiting for Netgear to fix. I have an AX6000 RBR852s running at home and one at work and both have this issue. Hope this helps.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-01

What do you mean by static LAN IP address on the RBR? Do you mean setting a IP address reservation?

What FW version do you have loaded? I have 3 IP address reservations set on my RBR850.

@McLong wrote:
I've run into a similar connection issues where the devices losing connection to the internet when connected to the satellite. The satellite never actually loses connection to the router and shows strong signal strength through the web GUI. I found that setting a static LAN IP address in the router causes this issue and am waiting for Netgear to fix. I have an AX6000 RBR852s running at home and one at work and both have this issue. Hope this helps.

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-08-01

@McLong wrote:
I've run into a similar connection issues where the devices losing connection to the internet when connected to the satellite. The satellite never actually loses connection to the router and shows strong signal strength through the web GUI. I found that setting a static LAN IP address in the router causes this issue and am waiting for Netgear to fix. I have an AX6000 RBR852s running at home and one at work and both have this issue. Hope this helps.

Very interesting! This is the same symptom I see and I do have reserved IP addresses set for almost all my devices, including my three RBS850s, via the RBR850 admin website.

Last night I tried a full factory reset of my RBR850 and RBS850s but still had multiple issues soon after. I gave up and switched my RBR850 to AP mode and turned off bridge mode in my Comcast modem. My max wifi speeds have dropped from AX levels but at least my home network has been stable for 12+ hours.

McLong · ‎2020-08-01

Sorry for the confusion. I mean LAN IP reservation address. Running f/w version 3.2.15.25. Both have been reset and configured manually. Thanks!

@FURRYe38 wrote:
What do you mean by static LAN IP address on the RBR? Do you mean setting a IP address reservation?
What FW version do you have loaded? I have 3 IP address reservations set on my RBR850.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-02

What is the mfr and model # of your ISP modem? Built in router here or just a modem?

@McLong wrote:
Sorry for the confusion. I mean LAN IP reservation address. Running f/w version 3.2.15.25. Both have been reset and configured manually. Thanks!

@FURRYe38 wrote:
What do you mean by static LAN IP address on the RBR? Do you mean setting a IP address reservation?
What FW version do you have loaded? I have 3 IP address reservations set on my RBR850.

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-08-05

@McLong wrote:
I've run into a similar connection issues where the devices losing connection to the internet when connected to the satellite. The satellite never actually loses connection to the router and shows strong signal strength through the web GUI. I found that setting a static LAN IP address in the router causes this issue and am waiting for Netgear to fix. I have an AX6000 RBR852s running at home and one at work and both have this issue. Hope this helps.

So I tried removing my reserved IP addresses for my RBS satellites, but my one satellite still disconnects from the internet within a few hours (along with all the devices connected to it). Did Netgear give you any other workaround instructions?

I tried putting my RBR850 into AP mode and falling back to my Comcast router/modem. It worked fine for a day but then the next work day I had many, many internet outage occurences for all my devices (not just the ones connected to the one satellite). I was never able to determine exactly what was going on. I thought it was Comcast because I wired a laptop directly to the modem and also tried hanging another router off of the modem, but then discovered that everything started working again as soon as I disconnected one of the ethernet cables from the modem. Maybe it's some local routing issue or conflict, but this was beyond my expertise.

I put my RBS850 back into router mode because I needed a working network and could handle the small number of IoT devices connected to the one satellite losing connection as long as my work computer retained connectivity. I even left my Comcast modem out of bridge mode, i.e., I have Double NAT now, but it didn't make a difference and my one satellite still loses connectivity several times a day. I guess I'll wait for a new firmware version and hope for a fix. Again, it's strange that my Orbi AX system has worked pretty well since March and this disconnecting satellite problem started happening just a couple weeks ago.

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-08-05

My Comcast modem is their CGM4331COM: xFi Gateway 3rd Generation, https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/broadband-gateways-userguides. It is a router too, and my issue occurs with bridge mode and also without. Only the RBR850 is connected to it (Connection Speed: 2500 Mbps). Wireless and MoCA are both turned off.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-06

Have you swapped locations with your RBS?

Factory reset the RBR and RBS?

I would make contact with NG support about your RBS. Possible your 1 RBS has become faulty. Mine are working fine in router mode and wire connected.

@Mikey94025 wrote:

So I tried removing my reserved IP addresses for my RBS satellites, but my one satellite still disconnects from the internet within a few hours (along with all the devices connected to it). Did Netgear give you any other workaround instructions?

I tried putting my RBR850 into AP mode and falling back to my Comcast router/modem. It worked fine for a day but then the next work day I had many, many internet outage occurences for all my devices (not just the ones connected to the one satellite). I was never able to determine exactly what was going on. I thought it was Comcast because I wired a laptop directly to the modem and also tried hanging another router off of the modem, but then discovered that everything started working again as soon as I disconnected one of the ethernet cables from the modem. Maybe it's some local routing issue or conflict, but this was beyond my expertise.

I put my RBS850 back into router mode because I needed a working network and could handle the small number of IoT devices connected to the one satellite losing connection as long as my work computer retained connectivity. I even left my Comcast modem out of bridge mode, i.e., I have Double NAT now, but it didn't make a difference and my one satellite still loses connectivity several times a day. I guess I'll wait for a new firmware version and hope for a fix. Again, it's strange that my Orbi AX system has worked pretty well since March and this disconnecting satellite problem started happening just a couple weeks ago.

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-08-06

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Have you swapped locations with your RBS?
Factory reset the RBR and RBS?
I would make contact with NG support about your RBS. Possible your 1 RBS has become faulty. Mine are working fine in router mode and wire connected.

Yes, I swapped another satellite and the same thing happened to it within a few hours. Therefore it does not seem to be a hardware issue with the one satellite. I also did a full reset of RBR850 and the 3 RBS850s, did not help.

Right now I'm just waiting for a firmware fix (especially since the other person in this thread said they had and reported the same issue). I've never contact NG support before, but will try that too.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-07

So you think the RBS in this area could be effected by any wifi noise or interferences?

What happens if you turn OFF ALL RBS accept for 1 and the RBR?

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-08-07

@FURRYe38 wrote:
So you think the RBS in this area could be effected by any wifi noise or interferences?

What happens if you turn OFF ALL RBS accept for 1 and the RBR?

Possibly, I live in San Francisco so there is a lot of wifi around. I can try this experiment over the weekend and when we are not working from home.

Do you mean leave this one problemmatic RBS850 on in this one location and turn off the other 2 RBS850s? Or turn this problemmatic RBS850 and one other off, leaving the 3rd RBS850 on?

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-07

Turn OFF the one problematic RBS and test with the others or test with just one of the other RBS. 1RBS and the RBR alone. See if anything appears for this configuration, if not, then add another RBS and test.

If you have lots of other wifi neighbors and signals, you maybe seeing some wifi congestion. One thing I recommend for users in these environments is to turn down the power putput of the RBR. 100% to 50% and see if this changes anything. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-08-13

Update - I have not tried to test further by turning off other satellites because things were stable for a day or to (vs. before when it went out after just a few hours). So I set some of our iPhone and iPads to connect to my old RBR50 wireless (daisy chained off a RBS850, with triple NAT heh), and things were stable for several days.

Last night I switched just my iPhone 11 Pro back to the AX (RBR850) wireless and sure enough within 10 minutes of walking down and being near to the one satellite it had an outage event. I just put my iPhone back to the RBR50 wireless and see if stability lasts for another 3 days. If this experiment succeeds, I'll try forgetting the AX network on the iPhone and see if that makes a difference.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-13

You may have a noisey environment. Reason to try to disable ALL RBR50 and RBSs and test the RBR850 alone to see if the problem continues or not. If not, add just 1 RBS850.

I'm currently having good wifi experiences with my two RBS850s online. Though I do see my mac book pro disconnect randomly while here in the living room. I think it's right in between the wifi over lap with the RBR and RBS down in the base ment and the MBP seems to can't make up it'd mind which signal to keep conneted too. Only happens right here in the living room were I sit with this mac book.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-24

I will add to this that I have been seeing one issue with a Mac Book Pro 2018 only while in the living room.

I'm noticing with a wireless Mac Book Pro OSX 10.14.6, No AX support, only up to AC.

One thing I'm noticing with this laptop, if I sit in the downstairs living room, this room is mostly in between the RBR that's upstairs on the 2nd level and a RBS that's in the basement at the opposite end of the house. The living room is on the main level.
When sitting in the living room, my mac book pro keeps disconnecting from the wireless signal. Today was pretty bad as about every 2-3 minute the wireless icon seen on the laptop, would disconnect and cycle thru as it was trying to reconnect. I noticed also that after a few disconnects, the wifi icon would not reconnect, and I would have to manually select the SSID name to get it to connect. This behavior was seen on prior v32 version of FW as well. Odd thing is is that this disconnection with the laptop fro the SSID only seems to happen on the main floor in the living room.

Changing from 64 to 2347 for CTS seems to help some however still saw a few disconnects while in the living room.

So I turned off the RBS in the dinning room thats nearest the 1st gen NEST in the bedroom one all away. Leaving the RBS down in the basement enabled which is mostly at the opposite end of the house from where the RBR is up on 2nd level. So far I haven't seen any disconnections on the mac laptop. I'm wondering if there is some form of wifi over lap with having two RBS connected and the mac book being in the middle of this signal between all 3 sources that the mac can't make up its mind on which one to keep connected too or there is something else going on when all 3 sources are running.

I have sent this off to NG for reivew.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-08-25

Wanted to update this from last nite. I got up and sat in the living room with my mac book and have not had 1 disconnect with it fron the system.

Removing the 2nd RBS seems to have fixes this. Wondering if placement and wifi overlap with 2nd RBS is causing mac book to loose the connection. I'll turn on the RBS again and test again to see if problem comes back.

Chuck_M · ‎2020-08-26

As in other recent post... double check to ensure you dont induce EMI through lamps, ceiling fan lights, or other LEDs which may not be properly shielded. Just something to consider.

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-08-26

@Chuck_M wrote:
As in other recent post... double check to ensure you dont induce EMI through lamps, ceiling fan lights, or other LEDs which may not be properly shielded. Just something to consider.

For others, this is @Chuck_M 's post. I do have an LED lamp that was installed around July 22, very close to this problemmatic satellite's location. This may be the answer and explanation of why suddenly in July I started having problems. I'll do some experiments and report back in 1-2 weeks with conclusions...

One thing to consider: There are known cases of Electro magnetic interference (EMI) due to unshielded (cheap) LED lights and other electronics... That may only be on at certain times/conditions. Perhaps something like this is contributing to your issues.

Do you have any LED lights, ceiling fans, etc that may be on during failures?

Chuck_M · ‎2020-08-26

Will be very interested in the results of your tests regarding any EMI...

You can shield problematic ballasts with aluminum foil if that turns out to be an issue.

Please keep us informed and good luck!

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-09-11

Hey, checking in on this to see how things are going for you?

@Mikey94025 wrote:
I do have an LED lamp that was installed around July 22, very close to this problemmatic satellite's location. This may be the answer and explanation of why suddenly in July I started having problems. I'll do some experiments and report back in 1-2 weeks with conclusions...

One thing to consider: There are known cases of Electro magnetic interference (EMI) due to unshielded (cheap) LED lights and other electronics... That may only be on at certain times/conditions. Perhaps something like this is contributing to your issues.

Do you have any LED lights, ceiling fans, etc that may be on during failures?

Mikey94025 · ‎2020-09-11

I have 3 RBS850 satellites. One of them was this one that lost connectivity regularly and it was near the LED light. I turned it off completely and ran just with the 2 for a while, did not get to trying to experiment with moving it to different locations or trying to shield the LED light because another of my RBR850 satellites started exhibiting the same problem of periodically losing connectivity. This other satellite is in a different room and a different floor of my house from the first one.

I at first had an RBS50 sitting right next to this second problemmatic RBS850 so I moved it 4 feet away, but that did not fix the problem. I now have the RBS850 with nothing else within 3 feet of it and no LED lights anywhere near it but the connectivity problem still occurs. So for now I have 2 of my 3 RBS850 satellites turned off because of this issue.

The third RBS850 I cannot turn off because I am also using it as a wireless access point to my wired devices. Fortunately it does not seem to ever lose connectivity like the other 2 satellites. At this point I have stable network so I'm just hoping that some new Orbi AX firmware will magically fix this issue and I can turn these other satellites back on.

One thought is that my house is adequately covered by just the one RBR850 and the one RBS850. They are at opposite ends and different floors of my house. It may be that interference occurs when these extra RBS850 satellites are too close to one another and that causes the connectivity issue. Note that I had the same number of RBS50 satellites with my RBR50 and did not have this problem.

If I get really bored I may try to turn on one of the RBS850s in my garage and see if it runs fine over there. That is the only location I can think of that would put it as far from the RBR850 and RBS850 that are powered on right now. So if it works in my garage then that adds further credibility to the interference hypothesis.