Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
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Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

dstrausser83
Guide

Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Ok - I got a weird issue....

 

I hooked up my Orbi AX6000 directly to the ONT using a Cat7 cable.

Pretty rockin you'd think, right?

 

Not so much. Speed is actually SLOWER than if I hooked up through their Gateway and sent that to the Orbi.

 

Thoughts? Should I tweak any settings if it is directly hooked up to the ONT?

 

BTW - I got TV service, so I connected from an open port in the Orbi to the Internet Ethernet port on the Gateway and I also released the IP addresses and stuff. TV works fine, but I don't know if the gateway perhaps is slowing something down?

 

EDIT: NAT is OPEN, no double NAT or anything. Also rebooted TV and the TV still works and connects. All services are normal except Internet is slower.

Message 1 of 23

Accepted Solutions
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Please make a new post about your NAS connection issues. 

 

Please mark this thread as solved so others will know. 

Something to look into:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Trying-to-use-RBK50-instead-of-FIOS-router/m-p/1885585/highlig...

 

Thank you. 

View solution in original post

Message 21 of 23

All Replies
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

v
What Firmware is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? Built in router here? If so, 
This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop  

Message 2 of 23
dstrausser83
Guide

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

No double NAT. I've already verified. All ports are open. All game systems say OPEN. My QNAP NAS is perfectly able to connect, do VPN, etc. No issues what so ever.

 

Everything works BETTER but is SLOWER. It was faster, but not as stable using the Gateway. Wondering if something else.

 

It's the standard quantum gateway the G1110 or whatever and the standard ONT they use (don't know that model number).

 

Double NAT is not the issue, I've verified that. No IP conflicts, nothing of those sorts.

 

Thanks though!

Message 3 of 23
dstrausser83
Guide

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

I have it "set up" correct for the gateway and the orbi. But I'm thinking I may need/want to tweak a setting in the Orbi that is possibly slowing me down.

 

I have video working, the Gateway is essentially disabled except for the STBs of the TV service and the Orbi is the main driver.... just working slower. You'd think it'd be faster.

Message 4 of 23
Bandito
Luminary

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

When you say slower, what is slower?  Can you provide some numbers so we know how much slower your system is?

 

Also, is your ONT connection going into the Orbi's WAN port?

Message 5 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Hopefully your ONT is bridged then. This is a gateway ONT which has a buit in router. 


@dstrausser83 wrote:

No double NAT. I've already verified. All ports are open. All game systems say OPEN. My QNAP NAS is perfectly able to connect, do VPN, etc. No issues what so ever.

 

Everything works BETTER but is SLOWER. It was faster, but not as stable using the Gateway. Wondering if something else.

 

It's the standard quantum gateway the G1110 or whatever and the standard ONT they use (don't know that model number).

 

Double NAT is not the issue, I've verified that. No IP conflicts, nothing of those sorts.

 

Thanks though!


 

Message 6 of 23
dstrausser83
Guide

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Sorry, this corona stuff sidetracked me...

 

So when I do a speedtest in my Orbi in QOS now it is usually below 500 mbps each direction (usually 300 to 400 mbps).

 

However, when I connect it with the Quantum Gateway first, and then forward all ports and put the Orbi in DMZ, I get usually 700 to 900 mbps on the Orbi speedtest.

 

It's just weird. I've also completely disconnected the Verizon Quantum Gateway and only ran the Orbi AX6000 and same results, the slower speeds. Could this just be something weird inside the Orbi?

 

One other "nuance" I noticed... I have a QNAP NAS. Check out the results with the different scenarios:

 

Quantum Gateway First: Using the same network, I can connect to the QNAP via the web (not internal network)

Orbi Direct Connected to ONT: You cannot connect via the URL. You can ONLY connect on the internal IP address (i.e. 10.0.0.15). BUT, if I am on an external network and I connect to the URL, it works and I connect to the QNAP.

 

It's almost as if the Orbi detects the loop and blocks it but the Quantum Gateway permitted it.

Message 7 of 23
dstrausser83
Guide

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

If the ONT allows the connection, does that mean that the ONT is bridged? Or could it not being in bridge mode be what the problem was? My Gateway was in bridge mode.

Message 8 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Make sure your ONT is fully bridged. I your Orbi RBR is using 10.0.0.# address this means the ONT may not be fully bridged as the RBR is detecting a router front of it and the ONT maybe using the same IP address string, 192.168.1.1 which causes the RBR to change to someting else, like 10.0.0.15. 

 

What happens if you configure the ONT for router mode and then configure the RBR for AP mode. Remove the DMZ/IP Pass thru on the modem for ap mode on the RBR.

Message 9 of 23
ScottD67
Star

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

I'm not sure if I can help you but I do have a very similar configuration.  Verizon ONT directly connected to Orbi AX in router mode over CAT6 cable.  I also have a gigabit FiOS service and if I run the Orbi QoS test I get 800 down/900 up.  I also get 900/900 between all wired devices and my synology NAS that is connected directly to the Orbi.   Do you know what model ONT you have?  I have a I-211M-L (Alcatel) if that matters.

 

 

Message 10 of 23
Jmartinb
Aspirant

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

I'm a FIOS GB customer who just converted from Eero to Orbi RBK852.  Using the Orbi mobile app to set things up, it put my RBR850 into router mode with both Orbi devices (router and satellite) and all wirelessly connected devices on the 10 network.

 

Everything Is working just fine (700-800Mb download and upload speeds) but I cannot connect to my FIOS ONT admin console via the normal IP (192.168.1.1).  What do I need to change in my setup to be able to do that? The two networks are obviously routing...what am I missing?

 

TIA.

Message 11 of 23
ScottD67
Star

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

The FiOS ONT is a device on the WAN side of your home router that bridges verizon's optical network to an ethernet port which connects to your router, it does not show up as a 192.168.1.x address on your LAN.  I've never seen an interface for the ONT,  I'm guessing it exists but is something only VZ techs can access since the ONT is really part of Verizon's network not yours. 

 

If you are talking about your Verizon Gateway (eg. g1100, ac1750) then you wouldn't see (or need it) on your LAN assuming you are using the Orbi AX as the home router (it replaces your Verizon Gateway).   There are some advanced configurations which people use that keep the Verizon Gateway on the LAN network to provide cable service to their TV boxes. If that's what you are trying to do you can find details on that here:

 

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.1_General_Networking#16077

 

 

 

 

Message 12 of 23
Jmartinb
Aspirant

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

My apologies for the confusion.  Yes, the FIOS ONT is the large box on the side of my house.  I was referring to the FIOS gateway device in my home that I used to access via the 192.168 network.

Message 13 of 23
ScottD67
Star

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Got it.  The question for you is do you still need the Verizon Gateway.  If you are going to use your Orbi as your primary router and don't need any of the capabilities of the Verizon Gateway to support FiOS set top boxes (STBs) then you can simply eliminate the Verizon Gateway.   This is the path I've gone down since I've switched over to streaming services and eliminated FiOS set top boxes.   I can't tell from your original post but it sounds like this is what you are trying to do.  You actually don't want the Verizon Gateway on your network since you should be managing your in home network through the Orbi (which is now at the 192.168.1.1 address).

 

If you need the capabilities of the Verzion Gateway because you have FiOS TV and use the STBs then you have to decide whether you want the Verizon Gateway to be your primary router and use your Orbi in AP mode or whether you want to use your Orbi as the primary router and the Verizon Gateway as an ethernet to coax bridge.  There are pro/cons to both approaches, the link I sent above covers them in detail. In either case the Verzion Gateway would have to be configured on your LAN network so you can still access it through the 192.168.1.x address.

Message 14 of 23
Jmartinb
Aspirant

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Thanks for the input.  Currently, the Orbi is the router and the FIOS gateway is in bridge mode and I'm enjoying the improved Internet performance over the Eero V2 setup. Since I still have my FIOS One set-top boxes, I will require the FIOS gateway device moving forward.  Any idea when Netgear's Armor services will be ported to the RBR850 platform?

Message 15 of 23
ScottD67
Star

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Probably what you need to do is Option 7 under the link I sent you.  The detailed instructions are here: 

 

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15993

 

and some other useful information is here:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fios/comments/4dm7zp/configuring_quantum_gateway_g1100_behind_personal/

 

When you are done making these changes the Verizon Gateway will be in bridged mode and you'll set its static IP address to 192.168.1.2 so you can log into its management interface at that IP address.   

 

I ran in that configuration for a month or two and after the initial reconfiguration from router to bridge I found that I seldom needed to access the router because you have it configured as an ethernet to MoCA bridge -- you aren't really using much of its functionality in that mode.

 

 

Message 16 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop


@Jmartinb wrote:

My apologies for the confusion.  Yes, the FIOS ONT is the large box on the side of my house.  I was referring to the FIOS gateway device in my home that I used to access via the 192.168 network.


 

Message 17 of 23
Jmartinb
Aspirant

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

I had Verizon configure the ONT so that I can use the Ethernet connection.  It is now connected directly the Orbi and my Internet service is working well, all internal wireless devices on the 10. network.

 

I also have my ONT coax interface active and connected to the gateway device to drive all the FIOS TV services.  Essentailly, two networks.

 

Given the Orbi is now connected directly to the ONT, what can I do to make the Orbi as secure as possible until Netgear provides us with better security tools?

 

Thanks all for the help.

Message 18 of 23
ScottD67
Star

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

From my understanding only connecting the Verizon gateway to your ONT coax and not bridging it between the Orbi LAN and the ONT Coax will result in some loss of functionality.  The FioS STBs get their video directly from the ONT coax so you can watch video on your STBs, that all works fine.   However, Verizon's gateway plays a role in getting guide information and Video on Demand to your FiOS STBs.  If it isn't connected as a bridge between your Orbi's LAN ethernet and the coax I don't believe you'll get FiOS video on demand services for example. I also think your guide data will get stale.  All of this needs to be on one LAN IP network for it to work, not split into two IP networks unless you've decided you don't need the guide and VOD.

 

Sidenote: Per other replys on this thread you shouldn't have be concerned about double NAT'ing,  the only NAT happens in the router in these configurations (Orbi or the Verizon Gateway whichever is routing from the WAN).  The ONT is not an IP network device - it essentially splits optical signals and multplexes them into different physical interfaces (Coax, Ethernet, Phone).  There's no IP termination in the ONT.

 

 

 

Message 19 of 23
dstrausser83
Guide

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Hey all, so with my situation, it all seems to be fixed... Good info there and basically I set mine up essentially how that link was posted by accident it seems like lol

 

No double NAT. TV STB connected and run fine.

 

I do have an odd issue though. I run a QNAP NAS at my house. When I ran through the VZ Quantum Gateway, connectivity was perfect. No issue. Now with the Orbi, even using UPnP or doing manual port fowrads, I can't get ports 8081 or 80 to work. To prove it is not an issue because of how I currently have the network setup, I completely disconnected the VZ Quantum Gateway and it has no impact on the results.Same thing. 

 

I know how to port forward and all that fun stuff, but for some reason these ports won't open and forward. Verizon has confirmed all ports are open.

 

What am I doing wrong here? 

 

Again, don't consider double nat or any issues with how I am running it because like I stated, I can have the Quantum Gateway completely disconnected from the network and I have this issue. It seems that when I use the Verizon Gateway though as the primary driver and set those ports to forward, they actually do forward. Opening the ports in the Orbi doesn't seem to be working.

 

What ideas do ya'll have?

 

Thanks

Message 20 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Please make a new post about your NAS connection issues. 

 

Please mark this thread as solved so others will know. 

Something to look into:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Trying-to-use-RBK50-instead-of-FIOS-router/m-p/1885585/highlig...

 

Thank you. 

Message 21 of 23
dstrausser83
Guide

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Will do. Thanks.

Message 22 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Verizon Fios ONT & AX6000

Enjoy. 

Message 23 of 23
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