rbs750 intermittently losing internet connection to rbr750

[molecules]

Hi!

I have been having issues and have been working with support since October 2022. The satellite loses internet connection intermittently (ethernet and wifi). It happens anywhere from a few seconds to an hour. The routerlogin web page shows that the backhaul connection between the base station and satellite has not lost connection. Base station ethernet and wifi not affected. As in devices connected to the base station (ethernet, wifi) do not go down when the satellite loses internet connection.

Has anyone else had this issue?

What have I tried so far:

- many different router config settings that support recommended (preamble, mtu size, 20/40 coexistance set to off).

- Factory reset of router and satellites

- plugging in the power cords directly to the wall

- bought all new cable modem and had isp check line signal

- rma'd base station twice

- rma'd one satellite

RBR750, RBS750

firmware: V4.6.14.3_2.3.12

[molecules · Accepted solution]

I have made the changes and am still getting the weird disconnects from the satellite. 

Just in case others run into the same issue and need a recap:

Router RBR750

2x satellites RBS750

They were rock solid from February 2022 to October 2022. Devices connected to the satellite (ethernet and wireless) randomly lose internet. Base router and connected devices do not lose internet. What I have observed:

• Ping tests to google.com will say request timed out
• Browsing from a web browser says timeout
• Ping to 192.168.1.1 (router) will say timed out
• Interestingly, one time when this happened I was on twitch in the web browser, no other pages would load, but the twitch connection remained.

What have I attempted:

• hard reset of router and satellites
• swapping satellite positions
• upgrading firmware via the routerlogin web page as well as downloading the newer version on the netgear website.
• RMA'd router twice
• RMA'd satellite twice
• downgrading router and satellite firmware to 3.x
• Various configuration settings recommended by Netgear Community as well as Netgear support

Observations about netgear support:

It really is a roll of the dice as to the quality and helpfulness of the support techs. Some have claimed to have tech issues, after reading my case notes, and say they will call back but never do (I think they probably have metrics and are afraid of missing them). Others create a new case (again I think they have metrics) even though there is an open case.

I have used both the premium support techs (way more consistent) and the purchased gearhead support techs (not as consistent). There definitely have been a few support techs that care and have tried to help, but for the most part, you get a lot of lackluster support techs.

I am definitely disappointed with Netgear. Up until this point I have exclusively bought Netgear products and recommended them to friends and family. After dealing with Netgear Support I do not recommend them anymore. The support is a nightmare.

The Netgear Community has been wayyy more helpful than the Netgear Support (gearhead and premium). I appreciate your time!!!

These cases span from October of 2022 to the latest one January of 2023.

X

I do not have a resolution for the issues. I think I am going to bite the bullet and just run Cat6 throughout the house for the desktop computers. I might try Ubiquiti, which a lot of my coworkers recommend.

[FURRYe38]

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6 is recommended. 

Is FW updated to same version as RBR?

How was the system updated? Via Auto Update, Orbi app or manually loaded the RBS first then RBR lastly using a PC and web browser? 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

What channels are you using? Auto? Trysetting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Are any of the following enabled on the RBR? 

Armor, SPC or Traffic Meter? 

[molecules]

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

It is an Xfinity Xb7 model number: CGM4331COMin bridge mode.

Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6 is recommended. 

I have tried multiple new Cat6 cables.

Is FW updated to same version as RBR?

The FW is the same on both base station and satellite.

How was the system updated? Via Auto Update, Orbi app or manually loaded the RBS first then RBR lastly using a PC and web browser? 

I downloaded the base station and satellite firmware and manually updated the system via the web page.

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?

3200 sq ft.

What is the distance between the router and

satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS

️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

The satellite is 35 feet away from the base station. On drywall between the two.

What channels are you using? Auto? Trysetting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

I have tried the different combinations of 2.4 and 5Ghz channels. I can see six different wifi networks around me.

Are any of the following enabled on the RBR? 

Armor, SPC or Traffic Meter? 

I do not have any of those enabled.

[FURRYe38]

Lets try setting manual channel 1 and 40 on the RBR.

Then set the RBRs transmit power to 50%. Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

When the RBS is ethernet connected, is the connection directly in back to the RBR or is there a LAN switch inbetween the RBR and RBS? Brand and model if one is used. 

What CAT# lan cable was used? CAT6 is recommended. 

[molecules]

Lets try setting manual channel 1 and 40 on the RBR.

Then set the RBRs transmit power to 50%. Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Ok. I made the above changes late last night. I am still getting intermittent disconnects this morning.

When the RBS is ethernet connected, is the connection directly in back to the RBR or is there a LAN switch inbetween the RBR and RBS? Brand and model if one is used.

What CAT# lan cable was used? CAT6 is recommended.

I was using a Netgear GS108 gigabit switch to connect to the satellite. However, I removed it back in October when I started getting intermittent connection issues.

I do not have a LAN switch between the RBR and RBS. I have tried both Cat5e and Cat6 cables.

[FURRYe38]

"I was using a Netgear GS108 gigabit switch to connect to the satellite. However, I removed it back in October when I started getting intermittent connection issues" So it was working well with this in place? 

[molecules]

It was working great from February to October. Then I started getting the intermittent drops from the satellite. That is when I removed the switch to see if it was the issue.

[FURRYe38]

And it still happens if you put the switch back in? 

Let bring the RBS closer to the RBR, say 5-6 feet closer...

[molecules]

Sorry for the late reply. I have been extremely busy. I will try that tonight and report back.

[molecules]

Ok. I moved the satellite within five feet of the base station. I was still getting dropped packets with my laptop plugged in via ethernet to the satellite. The base station has a Fing box plugged into it and it did not notify me of dropped packets.

[CrimpOn]

(Sorry to jump in at the end of a long conversation.....)

It is not entirely clear (to me) what the problem is:

• The satellite "loses connection to the internet", even though the router Attached Devices page shows the connection between router and satellite is "Good" (both when connected over WiFi and when connected by an Ethernet cable).
  While at the same time, the router itself provides internet to all devices connected directly to the router.
  We know the satellite loses (a) connection to the internet, or (b) connection to anything attached to the router?
  ?
• A laptop connected to the satellite "drops packets", which is demonstrated by...?
  Doing ICMP (ping) tests which report packet loss?

Are other devices connected to this satellite?

The Fing Box presents an interesting challenge because of the way Fing uses ARP poisoning block devices.  It might be helpful to temporarily remove the Fing Box from the installation until the problem is resolved.  (Fing literature points out that the Fing Box will not detect "packet loss" when devices connect directly through the router and are not forced to go through the Fing Box itself.)

[molecules]

Apologies for the unclear issue in my messages.

What I notice:

The base station does not lose internet (ethernet connected devices and wifi connected devices). The satellites (there are two) both experience intermittent internet disconnects. The routerlogin web page does not show that the satellites have disconnected from the base station. I also see no status light changes. When the disconnect happens, I can go to the base station and either via ethernet or wifi connect to the internet.

It is not entirely clear (to me) what the problem is:

The satellite "loses connection to the internet", even though the router Attached Devices page shows the connection between router and satellite is "Good" (both when connected over WiFi and when connected by an Ethernet cable).
While at the same time, the router itself provides internet to all devices connected directly to the router.

• Devices connected to the satellite lose internet connection. The netgearlogin page shows that the backhaul status as connected. While the internet is down on for devices connected to the satellite (ethernet and wifi)  devices connected to the base station (ethernet and wifi) do not lose their internet connection.

We know the satellite loses (a) connection to the internet, or (b) connection to anything attached to the router?

• The devices connected to the satellite lose internet, while the base station is not affected.

A laptop connected to the satellite "drops packets", which is demonstrated by...?
Doing ICMP (ping) tests which report packet loss?

• The laptop was hardwired to the base station. I cannot browse the internet and also did the ping test to see if packets are dropped.

Are other devices connected to this satellite?

• Originally, I had multiple devices connected to the satellite. I have removed all but one to troubleshoot. All devices connected to the satellite lose their internet.

The Fing box is a newer addition. My issues started back in October of last year. The Fing box was recommended by a colleague.

[CrimpOn]

A very puzzling situation. It would be useful to know if the router-satellite "link is down" or if there is some other issue.

The next time this happens, could you test the backhaul link itself?  i.e. on the laptop that is connected to the satellite:

• Ping the router by IP address (it is usually 192.168.1.1)
• If that works, attempt to connect to the Internet by pinging 19.12.113.37
• If that works, ping ford.com

I do not recall how the situation is resolved:

• Does the laptop just "start working again"?, or
• Do you restart parts of the network? (satellite, router, modem)?

[molecules]

Will do!

The satellite typically regains internet anywhere from a few seconds to longer than an hour. I have also power cycled the satellite to resolve the issue.

[FURRYe38]

So can you put this one RBS placed out away from the base at 30feet? 

5 feet is too close to the RBR. 

Whats this FING box? 

---

@molecules wrote:

Ok. I moved the satellite within five feet of the base station. I was still getting dropped packets with my laptop plugged in via ethernet to the satellite. The base station has a Fing box plugged into it and it did not notify me of dropped packets.

---

[molecules]

@FURRYe38 Apologies for the misunderstanding. I thought you meant move the satellite within five feet of the base station.

The Fing box is a device that is supposed to monitor network health and traffic.

@CrimpOnI ran ping tests to google as well as the base station (192.168.1.1). I noticed that the ping to the base station would drop packets at the same time the ping to google would drop packets (web browsing was unavailable during those times). Do you know if there is a way to test the backhaul connection directly?

[CrimpOn]

---

@molecules wrote:

@CrimpOnI ran ping tests to google as well as the base station (192.168.1.1). I noticed that the ping to the base station would drop packets at the same time the ping to google would drop packets (web browsing was unavailable during those times). Do you know if there is a way to test the backhaul connection directly?

---

"drop packets" in the sense of:

• Zero ping requests received a response,
  which indicates the link is totally down, or
• Some ping requests failed to receive a response.

Web browsing depends entirely on translating URLs into IP addresses. A web page may download dozens of separate files, and each URL has to be resolved by a DNS server.  (Computer do "cache" URLs - and even cache downloads, but it is amazing to see how many "GET" requests spawn from a single web page.)  If there is something wrong with the DNS server link, then users often conclude "no internet" when technically the problem is "no DNS".  That was what pinging ford.com vs ford.com's IP address was all about.

In this case, there appears to be something wrong with the satellite to router link.  Pinging the router tests the link directly. (Well, I guess it test the laptop/satellite/link/router.  If the WiFi backhaul link was 2.4G, we could imagine, "Oh, maybe the microwave oven is affecting the link". But the backhaul is 5G, not 2.4G.

All those steps you took in the original post are things I would have done.  Since there are two satellites, what happens if the satellites are switched?  (Good thing they are portable!)

[molecules]

Sorry for the long delay!!! I have also been working with Netgear support, and this is starting to turn into a part time job. 🙂

Both satellites exhibit the same issue. The ping test will, at times, say "request timeout".

[FURRYe38]

One last ditch effort I would try, manually download the RBS and RBR FW files and use a wired PC and web browser to re-load to the RBS first, then RBR lastly. 

After the system processes the update, power everything OFF for 1 minute then back ON. 
Factory reset the RBR using:

https://kb.netgear.com/000062081/How-do-I-erase-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System

I'd bring the RBS to same room as the RBR or near the RBR that's close enough for you to factory rest the RBS and resync them. Button press the reset button on the RBS for 15 seconds then release.

Setup the RBR from scratch using the wired PC and web browser. 

Set channel 1 and 40 or 11 and 48.

Set 40Mhz channel width only. 

Recommend setting the default DHCP IP address pool range to the following after applying and a factory reset: 192.168.#.100 to 192.168.#.200.
https://kb.netgear.com/24089/How-do-I-specify-the-pool-of-IP-addresses-assigned-by-my-Nighthawk-rout...

Enable SIP ALG under Advanced Tab/Setup/WAN Setup. 

After the system is setup, save off a backup config to file for safe keeping. 

Power off and deploy just one RBS at a remote location, 30 feet away from the RBR. 
Check this to see if the RBS continues with the problem or not. If it does, may need to get in touch with NG support.

@KevinLiT 

[molecules]

I discovered something interesting today. I have been running long ping tests to google.com. I ran into the issue where it started saying request timed out. I then tried browsing to google.com but could not get to the page. The web browser said it was having trouble finding the web page. I opened another powershell terminal and pinged 192.168.1.1 and it also was showing connection timed out. Interestingly, I had a browser open to Twitch and that was running and did not lose connection the entire time.

[KevinLiT]

Hello molecules,

Welcome to the NETGEAR Community!

I understand that you are having issues with network stability with your RBS750.

Please try disconnecting one of the satellites and then verify if the issue is still present on the connected satellite (Please try this step with both satellites). If it is not present then you may need to resync the second satellite to your RBR750 while the first satellite is connected to your RBR750. If the issue is still present within the individual satellites, please try reinstalling the FW for your RBS750 as recommended by @FURRYe38.

Please use the link below for the firmware download file for your RBS750:
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/rbk752.aspx#download

Best,
Kevin
Community Team

[molecules · Accepted solution]

I have made the changes and am still getting the weird disconnects from the satellite. 

Just in case others run into the same issue and need a recap:

Router RBR750

2x satellites RBS750

They were rock solid from February 2022 to October 2022. Devices connected to the satellite (ethernet and wireless) randomly lose internet. Base router and connected devices do not lose internet. What I have observed:

• Ping tests to google.com will say request timed out
• Browsing from a web browser says timeout
• Ping to 192.168.1.1 (router) will say timed out
• Interestingly, one time when this happened I was on twitch in the web browser, no other pages would load, but the twitch connection remained.

What have I attempted:

• hard reset of router and satellites
• swapping satellite positions
• upgrading firmware via the routerlogin web page as well as downloading the newer version on the netgear website.
• RMA'd router twice
• RMA'd satellite twice
• downgrading router and satellite firmware to 3.x
• Various configuration settings recommended by Netgear Community as well as Netgear support

Observations about netgear support:

It really is a roll of the dice as to the quality and helpfulness of the support techs. Some have claimed to have tech issues, after reading my case notes, and say they will call back but never do (I think they probably have metrics and are afraid of missing them). Others create a new case (again I think they have metrics) even though there is an open case.

I have used both the premium support techs (way more consistent) and the purchased gearhead support techs (not as consistent). There definitely have been a few support techs that care and have tried to help, but for the most part, you get a lot of lackluster support techs.

I am definitely disappointed with Netgear. Up until this point I have exclusively bought Netgear products and recommended them to friends and family. After dealing with Netgear Support I do not recommend them anymore. The support is a nightmare.

The Netgear Community has been wayyy more helpful than the Netgear Support (gearhead and premium). I appreciate your time!!!

These cases span from October of 2022 to the latest one January of 2023.

X

I do not have a resolution for the issues. I think I am going to bite the bullet and just run Cat6 throughout the house for the desktop computers. I might try Ubiquiti, which a lot of my coworkers recommend.

[FURRYe38]

Does the problem happen with one RBS deployed via wireless or wired connection to the RBR? 

@molecules 

[KevinLiT]

Hello @molecules ,

I removed your case numbers from the forum and will further investigate this issue. Thank you for your very detailed responses!

Best,

Kevin

Community Team