Re: Disabled my Mesh Network Due to No Orbi 5GHz Backhaul to Satellite

NG_LostMyAcct · ‎2018-11-29

Hi - I have a serious problem where my Orbi backhaul connection to my RBS50 Satellite only appears to be connecting at 2.4 GHz which is restricting the speed of any devices connected to the satellite.

This is what I see when I look at the status of my RBS50 Satellite:

While multiple devices do connect to the satellite over 5G, their data speed caps out around 30 Mbps - due to the single 2.4 GHz backhaul connection to the router. I used to get 130 Mbps+ speeds over the satellite from the same equipment setup back when the satellite also connected with the 5 GHz backhaul link.

As a result, it's actually better for me to disconnect my RBS50 satellite from my system and go back to the single RBR50 (mesh-less) router! I get 50 Mbps ==> 100 Mbps rates to my devices that connect over 5G with the RBS50 totally removed from the system, which is better than anything that connects to the satellite with this firmware regression.

I am running the latest V2.2.1.210 firmware. I have reset both my Orbi RBR50 and RBS50 back to factory defaults and used the Orbi setup wizard to reconfigure my system. I haven't changed any of the default settings from the setup wizard, other than changing the router's DHCP server IP address range.

The backhaul used to work fine in my system, but it has apparently become broken somewhere in the intervening forced updates (not sure when).

Please help!

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-11-29

If you updated to recent FW v.210, try enabling Daisy Chain. Some have mentioned that this seems to be working in reverse order, enabling means disabled actually.

NG_LostMyAcct · ‎2018-11-30

Hi, @FURRYe38 - I have tried setting Daisy Chain to both Enabled and Disabled, but there was no noticeable difference to the 5G Backhaul connection.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-11-30

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

NG_LostMyAcct · ‎2018-11-30

@FURRYe38 - They were about 40 - 50 feet apart normally. Not a lot of heavy materials in the way obstructing the router/satellite, just one stucco & wood wall in between.

I brought the satellite into the same room as the router, so now around 15 feet apart without obstructions. I also tried changing channels as you suggested (2.4 GHz at Channel 1, 5 GHz at Channel 44).

No differences seen - the 5 GHz backhaul channel is still grayed-out on the satellite.

ekhalil · ‎2018-11-30

@NG_LostMyAcct wrote:

@FURRYe38 - They were about 40 - 50 feet apart normally. Not a lot of heavy materials in the way obstructing the router/satellite, just one stucco & wood wall in between.

I brought the satellite into the same room as the router, so now around 15 feet apart without obstructions. I also tried changing channels as you suggested (2.4 GHz at Channel 1, 5 GHz at Channel 44).

No differences seen - the 5 GHz backhaul channel is still grayed-out on the satellite.

Can you please make a wifi scan. Can you see the “hidden” wifi networks from your router’s and satellite’s backhaul? Those networks have no SSID and using high 5GHz channels (usually 108 or 124). You see one such network for the router’s MAC and another for the Satellite’s. There are also similar hidden networks for the 2.4GHz backhaul channel but thone will be the same channel used for the fronthaul.

Can you see other networks broadcasting on the same 5GHz channels as the ones used for backhaul?

NG_LostMyAcct · ‎2018-11-30

Hi, @ekhalil -

I don't see any 5GHz hidden WiFi channels active in the high 5GHz channels from my router. I do see (2) Ch 48 broadcasts listed for my main WiFi + (2) Ch 48 broadcasts listed for my Guest network, so (4) Ch 48 broadcasts total. Maybe something to do with my WiFI scanning app?

I can occasionally see my neighbor's Zyxel router broadcasting at channel 149, bu never my router..

ekhalil · ‎2018-11-30

What app are you using to do the scanning? Not sure if all scanners will see hidden networks by default.
If you have a MacBook I would recommend the built in scanner.
For iPhone -and may be Android as well- you can use the Airport Utility app. It has a built in scanner even if you don’t have an Airport router.

NG_LostMyAcct · ‎2018-12-01

@ekhalil - My previous app did show hidden networks, but apparantly it wasn't very stable for that. I now installed this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubnt.usurvey

The WiFiMan app seems to be showing a <Hidden SSID> at Channel 157 with a similar MAC address and signal strength to my Main + Guest WiFi signals at Channel 48.

So, it looks like I do have a 5 GHz backhaul channel being transmitted.

ekhalil · ‎2018-12-01

@NG_LostMyAcct wrote:

@ekhalil - My previous app did show hidden networks, but apparantly it wasn't very stable for that. I now installed this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubnt.usurvey

The WiFiMan app seems to be showing a <Hidden SSID> at Channel 157 with a similar MAC address and signal strength to my Main + Guest WiFi signals at Channel 48.

So, it looks like I do have a 5 GHz backhaul channel being transmitted.

Here is what I would do:

- Make sure that both the Router and Satellite are broadcasting the 5GHz backhaul networks, just to exclude any antenna fault. Please get close firt to the router and do the scan and make sure that you see the Router networks (you should see one for 5GHz and another for 2.4GHz), repeat then the same for the Satellite.

- Once you confirm this then we can try to reduce the power of the 2.4GHz backhaul channels and see if the system will then choose the 5GHz channels. My only explanation to what you expereice is that you have high disturbance on the 5GHz channels and the system prefers always to use the 2.4 GHz channels for the Backhaul. To do this we need to use Telnet.

ekhalil · ‎2018-12-01

Please note that you will not see the hidden networks from the Satellite if Daisy Chain is disabled.
That said, it seems that you have to have Daisy Chain enabled in the current.210 software for backhaul to work properly. Please check that it’s enabled.

NG_LostMyAcct · ‎2018-12-01

Yes, I have Daisy Chain enabled in the RBR50 settings. I have almost all the options on the Advanced Wirless page enabled:

OK, I did a more comprehensive WiFi analysis, and here is what I found:

I see 6 simultaneous broadcasts on 2.4 GHz Channel 4. They are:

RBR50 Main Network
RBR50 Guest Network
RBS50 Main Network
RBS50 Guest Network
RBR50 <Hidden SSID> for the backhaul
RBS50 <Hidden SSID> for the backhaul

I see 5 broadcasts on the 5 GHz channels:

RBR50 Main Network, Channel 48
RBR50 Guest Network, Channel 48
RBS50 Main Network, Channel 48
RBS50 Guest Network, Channel 48
RBS50 <Hidden SSID> for the backhaul, Channel 157

So, my RBR50 router doesn't appear to be broadcasting the 5 GHz backhaul channel.

ekhalil · ‎2018-12-01

@NG_LostMyAcct wrote:

...................So, my RBR50 router doesn't appear to be broadcasting the 5 GHz backhaul channel.

Then I think this is exactly where the problem is!

I would do the following:

- Please repeat the scanning just to make sure that this is not an issue with the scanning app.

- If this is confirmed then this issue can either be caused by software data corruption in RBR50 or by a HW fault (antenna fault).

- Data corruption can be excluded by doing a factory reset for the Router (RBR50), which you mentioned that you did. Worths trying again.

- If data corruption is excluded then this is for sure a HW fault in the RBR50 unit (I guess it can be a loose connection to the antenna) and you need to contact Netgear to get it replaced or repaired.

NG_LostMyAcct · ‎2018-12-01

Thanks, @ekhalil - You're probably right, there is something wrong with the Orbi router backhaul transmitter. It may be an easy fix, like a loose wire, or something more complicated. Not sure ...

I don't think I'll be sending my Orbi back to Netgear for repair - I'm waaay outside the warranty period. I bought my Orbi system a few weeks after they first became available. I may have beeen experiencing this problem since around firmware v2.0.x first was pushed out. A repair will be too expensive to justify at this point.

However, I found a free solution to my problem based on something I saw in your signature. Your setup mentions "Wired Backhaul".

When I first put together my Orbi system, I originally planned on doing a wired backhaul. I already have an RJ45 Ethernet cable near my Orbi Satellite from my initial installation. Unfortunately, it didn't work back in the early Orbi days, and I forgot about it.

So, I Googled "Orbi wired backhaul", and saw how to configure my connections. It's working great!

I am now seeing consistent 100+ Mbps data rates on the side of the house serviced by the Orbi Satellite.

While not the intended solution, I found a free and totally workable solution for my system.

Thank again for all the help!

AzJazz

ekhalil · ‎2018-12-01

Yes, wired backhaul is a good alternative. It's working perfectly for me.

I have 250/250 Mbps internet and I'm getting almost full speed everywhere in the house from devices connected to the Router or to the Satellite.

Good luck!

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-12-03

I would contact NG support and get help and information on this. If you feel the system is not working correctly, Ask for an RMA. Sounds like you need one.

@NG_LostMyAcct wrote:

Thanks, @ekhalil - You're probably right, there is something wrong with the Orbi router backhaul transmitter. It may be an easy fix, like a loose wire, or something more complicated. Not sure ...

I don't think I'll be sending my Orbi back to Netgear for repair - I'm waaay outside the warranty period. I bought my Orbi system a few weeks after they first became available. I may have beeen experiencing this problem since around firmware v2.0.x first was pushed out. A repair will be too expensive to justify at this point.

However, I found a free solution to my problem based on something I saw in your signature. Your setup mentions "Wired Backhaul".

When I first put together my Orbi system, I originally planned on doing a wired backhaul. I already have an RJ45 Ethernet cable near my Orbi Satellite from my initial installation. Unfortunately, it didn't work back in the early Orbi days, and I forgot about it.

So, I Googled "Orbi wired backhaul", and saw how to configure my connections. It's working great!

I am now seeing consistent 100+ Mbps data rates on the side of the house serviced by the Orbi Satellite.

While not the intended solution, I found a free and totally workable solution for my system.

Thank again for all the help!

AzJazz