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Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Destructormode
Aspirant

Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Good day forums,

I finally made the jump to a mesh network last month with the RBK50, one additional satellite, and one plug in satellite. So far it has been great- I have a large old home with thick walls like a fortress, and many smart devices- camera door bell, 4 security cameras, smoke detectors, locks, 50+ smart lights, music system, Rachio, Apple TV, etc.

My home PC is about 12 feet from the router, and just the past few days my online gaming as well as internet browsing and streaming videos is interrupted by large bursts of lag to the tune of 2500ms. The rest of the time it is 22ms. I tried a hardwire Ethernet cable and the issue goes away (not an option though, cord was going from one room down hall to another). Tried my wife’s Apple laptop and similar issues. Comcast confirmed through a long service call that the ping is normal on their end with no spikes. I have an Arris surfboard SB8200. FW is latest version, updates just a week or two ago. Not sure where to begin, as I spent a decent chunk of change in this system and the lag spikes defeat the purpose of gigabit internet for gaming and streaming. Thanks in advance!
Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 1 of 20
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

I would start with a complete cold reboot of modem, orbi and PCs to see if this was an anomaly.

 

What firmware are you running?

 

Have you examined your radio frequency (RF) spectrum for overlapping channels etc?  Are you in an area that may have other people competing for same channel space?

 

I would get a Wifi analyzer app (free) and examine if you may have cochannel interference before anything else.  The solution may be as simple as moving your channel into a clearer RF space.

 

 

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 2 of 20
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

What FW is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
Is the Orbi system operating in Router or AP mode?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
What WPA security modes are you using?

 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO.

Try disabling the following and see:
Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).


@Destructormode wrote:
Good day forums,

I finally made the jump to a mesh network last month with the RBK50, one additional satellite, and one plug in satellite. So far it has been great- I have a large old home with thick walls like a fortress, and many smart devices- camera door bell, 4 security cameras, smoke detectors, locks, 50+ smart lights, music system, Rachio, Apple TV, etc.

My home PC is about 12 feet from the router, and just the past few days my online gaming as well as internet browsing and streaming videos is interrupted by large bursts of lag to the tune of 2500ms. The rest of the time it is 22ms. I tried a hardwire Ethernet cable and the issue goes away (not an option though, cord was going from one room down hall to another). Tried my wife’s Apple laptop and similar issues. Comcast confirmed through a long service call that the ping is normal on their end with no spikes. I have an Arris surfboard SB8200. FW is latest version, updates just a week or two ago. Not sure where to begin, as I spent a decent chunk of change in this system and the lag spikes defeat the purpose of gigabit internet for gaming and streaming. Thanks in advance!

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 3 of 20
Destructormode
Aspirant

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Sorry, was out of town for a few days for work. Back now forthe foreseeable future. I was hoping this would have resolved itself, but it is still here. Is it possible my Asus USB-AC68 wifi adapter is just on its way out? Maybed it is not compatible with some new W10 update or something?

 

What FW is currently loaded? 2.2.1.210
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too? Arris Surfboard SB8200
Is the Orbi system operating in Router or AP mode? router mpode

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 4200
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials. ~15 feet

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz. swtiched from auto to manual 2.4ghz 11 and 5ghz 58
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? 4-5 depending on day
What WPA security modes are you using? WEP-PSK

 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO.

Try disabling the following and see:
Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Message 4 of 20
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Often we start chasing complex problems when the answer may be simple and right in front of you.

 

Have you rebooted the cable modem from a totally power off condition (after letting it sit for about 1 minute)?

 

Want to make sure it isnt the cable system acting wonky before we start tearing into the router.

 

Do wired devices have the same lag spikes?

 

Can you describe also your environment?  (urban, highrise, etc) -- it may be that you have RF competition.

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 5 of 20
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 4200
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials. ~15 feet <This a a bit too close. Starting distance is 30 feet. 


@Destructormode wrote:

Sorry, was out of town for a few days for work. Back now forthe foreseeable future. I was hoping this would have resolved itself, but it is still here. Is it possible my Asus USB-AC68 wifi adapter is just on its way out? Maybed it is not compatible with some new W10 update or something?

 

What FW is currently loaded? 2.2.1.210
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too? Arris Surfboard SB8200
Is the Orbi system operating in Router or AP mode? router mpode

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 4200
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials. ~15 feet

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz. swtiched from auto to manual 2.4ghz 11 and 5ghz 58
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? 4-5 depending on day
What WPA security modes are you using? WEP-PSK

 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO.

Try disabling the following and see:
Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 6 of 20
Destructormode
Aspirant

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 4200
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials. ~15 feet <This a a bit too close. Starting distance is 30 feet. 

 

^^^ not really an option. The location of the cable entry point to the house is the master bedroom, and the office is one room over. However, my house is 100 years old and constructed very densly with palster and lathe, and the current setup was working for a long time.

Message 7 of 20
Destructormode
Aspirant

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

I did reboot the modem last week, and there was no notable difference, spikes continued. I did try wiring it directly from modem to PC and the spikes vanished completely. Home is in a suburban nerighborhood, the inSSIDer shows a lot of other networks but I am having trouble deciphering all the charts and numbers to useful information.

Message 8 of 20
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Can you try checking for spikes with out the satellite being turned on. Just leave it off and run your pings again. Let us know if you still see issues. 

 

If you still see them, I would do a factory reset on the Orbi router. Set it up from scratch. Leave the satellite OFF. Just have a wired PC connected to the router with out any other devices connected. See if the spikes are still there...if they are, possible you have a faulty system...


@Destructormode wrote:

I did reboot the modem last week, and there was no notable difference, spikes continued. I did try wiring it directly from modem to PC and the spikes vanished completely. Home is in a suburban nerighborhood, the inSSIDer shows a lot of other networks but I am having trouble deciphering all the charts and numbers to useful information.


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 9 of 20
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

When the PC is wired directly to the Orbi router, gaming operates as you expect, but when using WiFi, there are regular interruptions about every 15 seconds.  And, both the PC and a Mac have the same problem on WiFi.  How did you arrive at the measurements of 22ms vs. 2500ms?

 

The obvious conclusion is that something is affecting your WiFi signal every 15 seconds.  Many WiFi analyzer apps are set to sweep once per second.  When you watch the "moving graph" of the signal levels of access points (yours and others nearby), does your router signal drop every 15 seconds.  (The analyzer on my Android phone app calls it "Time Graph".)  It is normal for WiFi signals to "appear and disappear", but a regular pattern may indicate that some neighbor's system is affecting yours.

 

With a house full of devices, there is a chance that you have inadverdantly created a network loop that is allowing broadcast packets to create a "storm" that overwhelms the WiFi signal.  Some networked sound systems have been reported to have issues when connected to the home WiFi network and their own private WiFi network at the same time.

 

When you connect to the Orbi "debug page" (usually 192.168.1.1/debug.htm), what does it show for CPU load?  (i.e. every time the screen pops up, immediately refresh the screen.  For example, my Orbi reports values from 6% to 45%, but is typically between 10% and 20%.

 

 

I love my Orbi.
Message 10 of 20
ekhalil
Master

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Agree with @CrimpOn that it can be some of your attached devices which is impacting the performance of Orbi.

What other wired devices do you have connected to Orbi? Do you have any wired mesh speakers? Any IPTV services?

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBR850 + RBS850 + 2x RBS750 + 3xRBS350, Wired/Wireless BH / Orbi RBR50 + 6x RBS50 + RBS40V + RBS50Y, Wired/Wireless BH | Switches NG GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 11 of 20
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Sorry, I got in a hurry and didn't finish.  I would refresh the Orbi debug screen for at least a full minute (maybe two), hoping to catch at least a couple of those 15 second spikes.  (Sounds like a long time, but my screen takes six seconds to refresh.  I also have no idea what Orbi is reporting for CPU Load.  Is it since the last report?  The last six seconds?  No idea.)  If the CPU hits over 90% about every 15 seconds, that might be part of the problem.  On the other hand, if the CPU never goes over 50%, whatever is happening is not affecting the Orbi.

 

Back in my networking days, we would occasionally get ourselves into a "spanning tree" problem where there multiple paths through the network to the same device.  If the device decided to repeat a broadcast, that same broadcast would come back around and it would repeat it again, faster and faster until the network would just die.  Sophisticated network switches employ a "spanning tree algorithm" to detect and prevent that.  (Here my memory has gone blank.)  The "bottom line" is that Ethernet networks although surprisingly robust, have distinct vulnerabilities.

 

I am tempted to suggest capturing some traffic, but I am not convinced that would be productive.  (There is another option on the debug screen to "Enable LAN/WAN Packet Capture."  Let it run for two minutes, save the file to the PC, and look at it using Wireshark.  (1) This may be more technical than you are comfortable with, and (2) I am not confident that it would show anything.  The LAN interface does not seem to be affected by whatever is happening.

 

Another suggestion is to turn some things off and see if the problem goes away.  Using a binary search, for example, you could turn off half of the WiFi devices in the house and see if the problem goes away.  If not, probably none of them are the cause. If so, then restore half of the devices and check again.  I would start by powering off the sound systems.

 

 

I love my Orbi.
Message 12 of 20
Destructormode
Aspirant

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

Ugh, man this is killing me, these 2500 spikes are destroying my expereince.

 

Connected Devices -

2 Nest Thermostats

5 Nest smoke detectors

1 Ring Doorbell and 3 Ring cameras

1 Smartlock

4 Google Home speakers

1 Apple TV

50+ Smartlights

 

Important to note, nothing is actually running through a direct connection to the router or satellits, everything is wi-fi enabled. I moved my channel to one that was not occupied by my neighboorhood as well.

Message 13 of 20
Destructormode
Aspirant

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

I refreshed the debug screen a number of times in a row, and here are my values:

 

17

25

17

14

43

12

48

19

47

14

14

43

28

19

37

15

 

This was done after I confirmed the spikes were actively happeneing.

Message 14 of 20
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

When the spikes occur, what network are you on?  5G or 2.4?

 

If you can test to see if the spikes are on only one band that would be useful.  If it is on both bands, it would indicate either the backhaul is having issues or the Orbi itself is problematic.

 

There is a new version of firmware in beta testing that has resolved some backhaul issues as well as some others... perhaps it would be faster for you to join the beta, update your firmware and see if that resolves the issue.

 

The beta test link is here if you want to try that approach

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Looking-for-a-select-group-of-Orbi-Community-members-that-are/...

 

 

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 15 of 20
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

So, I would try this, factory reset and setup from scratch. This time, set up a different SSID name. This will prevent current wifi devices from connecting to the system. Lets isolate the system from everything else. Wire connect just one PC to the system. 

Check for spikes. 

Add just 1 wireless device, start with a phone. 

Check for spike. 

 

Let us know what you find here. I'm wondering if there are spikes with mimimal devices connected. 

 

You can change the SSID back to what you had been using. 


@Destructormode wrote:

Ugh, man this is killing me, these 2500 spikes are destroying my expereince.

 

Connected Devices -

2 Nest Thermostats

5 Nest smoke detectors

1 Ring Doorbell and 3 Ring cameras

1 Smartlock

4 Google Home speakers

1 Apple TV

50+ Smartlights

 

Important to note, nothing is actually running through a direct connection to the router or satellits, everything is wi-fi enabled. I moved my channel to one that was not occupied by my neighboorhood as well.


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 16 of 20
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds


@Destructormode wrote:

I refreshed the debug screen a number of times in a row, and here are my values:

 

17

25

17

14

43

12

48

19

47

14

14

43

28

19

37

15

 

This was done after I confirmed the spikes were actively happeneing.


These results seem to confirm that your Orbi is not significantly different than mine as far as CPU load is concerned.

 

I read through this topic again and cannot find how you are measuring the lag that is usually 22ms but jumps to 2500ms every 15 seconds and is only present when the PC is connected using WiFi (and not when using Ethernet cable).

 

I am not aware of a (consumer, free) tool that can be used to measure WiFi radio congestion.  It almost sounds like there is some appliance that is wiping out WiFi every 15 seconds.  I also did not see a response to the question:  "Is your PC connected at 2.4G or 5G?"  (Sorry if I missed it.)

I love my Orbi.
Message 17 of 20
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

After many random samples taken under normal network conditions:

 

My RBR50 CPU load varies from 6-60%.  Average was about 21

My RBS50 #1 ethernet backhaul CPU load varies from 8-49%    Average was about 23

My RBS50 #2 ethernet backhaul CPU load varies from 10-45%  Average was about 22

My RBS50 #3 wireless backhaul CPU load varies from 14-62%  Average was about 33

 

 

@Destructormode @CrimpOn both have normal loads compared to mine.  Note the wireless backhaul always seemed higher -- even with about the same number of devices.

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 18 of 20
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds

I am puzzled by two aspects of this problem:

 

  1. The things that are affected include video streaming, web browsing, and internet gaming.  All things where a 2,500ms pause would be noticable.  It is not  a case of "dropped packets".  i.e. Unlike a recent problem, this is not setting up two computers to send 1,000's of pings and counting how many disappear.  (Unlike TCP, UDP (ping) does not guarantee delivery.)   Most likely, because these are TCP activities, they simply wait for a response and then pick up again.
  2. Only WiFi connection is affected.  When the PC is wired to the Orbi, it works fine. That rules out ISP problems, modem problems, and even many Orbi problems.  It's also not likely to be a packet storm (as I earlier proposed), because it doesn't "leak over" into the LAN side.

What is it that can make WiFi connections pause for 2,500ms but not drop?

 

If this happens only on 2.4G connections, I would lean toward "something" causing massive interference every 15 seconds.  There are SO many things that affect 2.4G (microwaves, cordless phones, etc. etc.)  On the other hand, if it affects 5G, I am not aware of appliances that use the 5G bands.  (Wouldn't it be a hoot if there is a rogue radar antenna on unauthorized frequency that sweeps around every 15 seconds?)  I don't even see how nearby WiFi's on the same 5G could cause this.

I love my Orbi.
Message 19 of 20
ekhalil
Master

Re: Having large lag spikes on WiFi every 10-15 seconds


@CrimpOn wrote:

When the PC is wired directly to the Orbi router, gaming operates as you expect, but when using WiFi, there are regular interruptions about every 15 seconds.  And, both the PC and a Mac have the same problem on WiFi.  How did you arrive at the measurements of 22ms vs. 2500ms?

 


@Destructormode I didn’t see a reply to this question, sorry if I missed it, how do you make this lag measurements? Using ping?

Can you also please confirm that the issue occurs always and periodicallyevery 15 seconds?

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBR850 + RBS850 + 2x RBS750 + 3xRBS350, Wired/Wireless BH / Orbi RBR50 + 6x RBS50 + RBS40V + RBS50Y, Wired/Wireless BH | Switches NG GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 20 of 20
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