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Re: IGMP Snooping
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IGMP Snooping
Hi, in my home network, I have a 2018 Orbi RBR50 router and have set it up with IGMP Proxying. However, I cannot find a setting for IGMP Snooping. I understand that IGMP Snooping is necessary for efficient multicast streaming. How can I get the router to operate with IGMP Snooping?
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Re: IGMP Snooping
Orbi does not support IGMP snooping. Only IGMP proxying on the WAN port is supported.
Why do you need IGMP snooping? Do you have devices that use IGMP multicasting which affects the performance of your LAN network, for which you want to use IGMP snooping?
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Re: IGMP Snooping
My ISP provides routers (Zyxel) with IGMP Snooping enabled (Blocking Mode). It seems to be relevant with respect to trouble-free multicast transmissions for IPTV. I think it may be the only missing feature of the RBR50 to allow use without the ISP router. I hope Netgear will include this feature in their next FW release. My current FW is V2.2.1.210.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
You will have to ask to see if it can be added.
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/idb-p/idea-exchange-for-home
Not alot of use for IGMP in most homes so maybe one reason why NG didn't add it ot the Orbi. Something to ask them about though.
@Noroddveien wrote:
My ISP provides routers (Zyxel) with IGMP Snooping enabled (Blocking Mode). It seems to be relevant with respect to trouble-free multicast transmissions for IPTV. I think it may be the only missing feature of the RBR50 to allow use without the ISP router. I hope Netgear will include this feature in their next FW release. My current FW is V2.2.1.210.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
I stumbled across this thread and I wonder if the symptoms fit the problem, i.e. lack of multicast support?
I’ve noticed when setting IoT devices such as Nanoleaf Canvas lights, LIFX lights, Nest Cameras etc, the WLAN is serverly disrupted. All other devices seem to struggle to get to the internet. Is this what IGMP snooping would help alleviate?
During these periods where the WLAN is almost halted the internet remains connected and is appears to be ok (I have a Fing box connected to help monitoring)
RBR40 in Router mode
IGMP proxying not enabled for WAN side as issue is not there
FW: 2.2.1.210
Thanks
I was going to attach some pics showing the following but the “choose file” button isn’t working
Nest Cam timeline (darker grey indicates camera could not connect to internet)
Fing box monitoring of internet connectivity showing no issues for same period
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Re: IGMP Snooping
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
Turn OFF all wifi devices, then start adding devices gradually. See if you can notice when the WLAN starts to slow down or stop working correctly.
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.
What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
What WPA security modes are you using?
Try enabling Beamforming
Try disabling the following and see:
Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).
So far IGMP protocols don't seem to be compatible with Orbi. Espeically in managed switches.
@JonUK123 wrote:
Hi
I stumbled across this thread and I wonder if the symptoms fit the problem, i.e. lack of multicast support?
I’ve noticed when setting IoT devices such as Nanoleaf Canvas lights, LIFX lights, Nest Cameras etc, the WLAN is serverly disrupted. All other devices seem to struggle to get to the internet. Is this what IGMP snooping would help alleviate?
During these periods where the WLAN is almost halted the internet remains connected and is appears to be ok (I have a Fing box connected to help monitoring)
RBR40 in Router mode
IGMP proxying not enabled for WAN side as issue is not there
FW: 2.2.1.210
Thanks
I was going to attach some pics showing the following but the “choose file” button isn’t working
Nest Cam timeline (darker grey indicates camera could not connect to internet)
Fing box monitoring of internet connectivity showing no issues for same period
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@JonUK123 wrote:
.........
I’ve noticed when setting IoT devices such as Nanoleaf Canvas lights, LIFX lights, Nest Cameras etc, the WLAN is serverly disrupted. All other devices seem to struggle to get to the internet. Is this what IGMP snooping would help alleviate?
........
IGMP is used for one-to-many networking applications such as online streaming video and gaming, and I don't think that the devices you mentioned belong to this category.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@ekhalil wrote:
Orbi does not support IGMP snooping. Only IGMP proxying on the WAN port is supported.
Hm, what should be the purpose of this then? An IGMP proxy does enable hosts in a uni-directional link routing (UDLR) environment that are not directly connected to a downstream router to join a multicast group sourced from an upstream network. When I have it right, the IGMP proxy does also serve an the IGMP querier to the LAN. Rather useless if the multicast noise does go out over all links (both wireless and wired backhaul, all Ethernet ports, and all AP radios, isn't it?
@ekhalil wrote:
Why do you need IGMP snooping? Do you have devices that use IGMP multicasting which affects the performance of your LAN network, for which you want to use IGMP snooping?
Major ISP introduced massive IGMP Multicast based IPTV solutions in the last years. In my understanding @Noroddveien ISP does also provide live TV over IGMP Multicast.
@FURRYe38 wrote:
Not alot of use for IGMP in most homes so maybe one reason why NG didn't add it ot the Orbi. Something to ask them about though.
It's the #1 industry standard used by ISPs for IPTV. Millions of deployments alone here in Switzerland by the major and smaller ISP feeding FullHD and UHD (4K). That's why non-managed switches can't be deployed anymore without causing massive issues - at least some Smart Managed Plus switches wuth IGMP Multicast support for one VLAN are required.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@schumaku wrote:
Hm, what should be the purpose of this then? An IGMP proxy does enable hosts in a uni-directional link routing (UDLR) environment that are not directly connected to a downstream router to join a multicast group sourced from an upstream network. When I have it right, the IGMP proxy does also serve an the IGMP querier to the LAN. Rather useless if the multicast noise does go out over all links (both wireless and wired backhaul, all Ethernet ports, and all AP radios, isn't it?
IGMP Proxy and IGMP Snooping can achieve the same goal of reducing traffic replication. The router maintains a mapping table and forwards multicast traffic only to the hosts that have joined the specific multicast group.
@schumaku wrote:
Major ISP introduced massive IGMP Multicast based IPTV solutions in the last years. In my understanding @Noroddveien ISP does also provide live TV over IGMP Multicast.
IGMP Proxy should solve the issues that @Noroddveien seeing. The only problem is that IGMP is directly connected to VLANs. Orbi -currently- supports VLAN tagging only for wired ports and not for wireless.
So by connecting the IPTV box to a LAN port in Orbi, configure a VLAN on it and activating IGMP Proxy should basically both improve the IPTV quality and prevent multicasting from affecting the other devices in the network.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@ekhalil wrote:The only problem is that IGMP is directly connected to VLANs. Orbi -currently- supports VLAN tagging only for wired ports and not for wireless.
Orbi has got VLAN support for the switched Ethernet ports at least? I must have missed something. This would be amazing considering Netgear refused to introduce this feature not that long ago following the complaints about the poor L2 separation of the Guest wireless network.
@ekhalil wrote:So by connecting the IPTV box to a LAN port in Orbi, configure a VLAN on it ...
The documentation is seriously lacking (Orbi and Orbi Pro User Manuals [does not show the BT ICMP Proxy], the usability of the UI to _disable_ it you have to tick it, while for the BT ICMP Proxy one has to tick it to enable is more of a joke, and I can't find any KB entry explaining _exactly_ what is supported and where (e.g. only Orbi Router LAN port, Orbi Router primary AP LAN Ports, Satellite LAN port(s)? ...).
Netgear product design and product management at it's best. @ChristineT @Christian_R please make some wake-up calls.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
For info:
The Norwegian ISP (Telenor) does not use VLAN for multicast IPTV. Their Zyxel router is not set up with VLAN either. The only real difference I can see between the way I have set up my Orbi RBR50 and the ISP router is that I do not have IGMP Snooping.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@Noroddveien wrote:
The Norwegian ISP (Telenor) does not use VLAN for multicast IPTV.
That's one of the key reasons for doing IPTV (live) on ICMP Multicast - you don't have to set-up these messy WAN-VLAN-to-a-LAN-port (or WLAN-SSID) requiring dedicated cabling and switching.
Would love to provide some more assistance, however the information available and what is available is that marginal ...
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@Noroddveien wrote:
.....The Norwegian ISP (Telenor) does not use VLAN for multicast IPTV. Their Zyxel router is not set up with VLAN either. ......
Likely the Zyxel router is pre-configured with a Static Multicast Forward to the ISP's IPTV boxes.
Yes there are routers that allow manual configuration of static multicst tables, but if that is not possible (and it's not possible in Orbi) then the only way to protect the network from multicast floods is by directing it to specific VLAN(s).
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@schumaku wrote:
.......Orbi has got VLAN support for the switched Ethernet ports at least? I must have missed something. This would be amazing considering Netgear refused to introduce this feature not that long ago following the complaints about the poor L2 separation of the Guest wireless network.
Yes, Orbi has VLAN Support for LAN ports.
@schumaku wrote:..........
The documentation is seriously lacking (Orbi and Orbi Pro User Manuals [does not show the BT ICMP Proxy], ........
Yes, I agree that IGMP (not ICMP 🙂 ) is not well documented and that not enough flexibility is given for configuring the feature. For example there is no manual static multicast forwarding which will make configuring this feature straight forward for the very common use of IPTV boxes.
Overall, I think that IGMP is a simple protocol where -simply- a device requests membership to a group (VLAN) through the router while the router listens for these requests and periodically sends out subscription queries.
For VLANs, there is a brief KB here: https://kb.netgear.com/000038854/How-do-I-set-up-a-bridge-for-a-VLAN-tag-group-for-my-Orbi-WiFi-Syst...
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Re: IGMP Snooping
For additional info, I am attaching a dump of the ISP router´s configuration file (Zyxel 8702N). IPTV functions the way it is suppose to with this setup. The information in the file is beyond my capabilty to interpret. Perhaps there is a setting there that explains why IPTV works with the ISP router but not flawlessy with the Orbi.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@Noroddveien wrote:
For additional info, I am attaching a dump of the ISP router´s configuration file (Zyxel 8702N). .....
Thanks for the info. The ifconfig command just shows the available interfaces in the router, their status and capabilities.
The only useful thing I see in this config information is that interface en0 (which I guess is your WAN port) has VLAN_HWTAGGING which gives an indication that the Zyxel router is using VLAN tagging (may be pre-configured?) to direct multicast traffic towards the IPTV box.
@Noroddveien have you tried the suggestion in this post? That is connecting the IPTV box to a LAN port in Orbi, configure a VLAN on it and activating IGMP Proxy in WAN Setup. Or do you want the IPTV to only be attached wirelessly to Orbi?
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@ekhalil wrote:
Or do you want the IPTV to only be attached wirelessly to Orbi?
...or wired to an Orbi satellite?
...with the Orbi satellite connected direct to a wired-only backhaul?
...with the Orbi satellite connected direct to a wireless backhaul?
...with the Orbi satellite connected mixed config backhaul?
I fear all this would require a proper IGMP Multicast handling over the complete system - strongly doubt there is anything the like. In my opinion, and with the eye on the very fast deploying IGMP Multicast based live IPTV solutions, a bigger design error.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@schumaku wrote:
...or wired to an Orbi satellite?
...with the Orbi satellite connected direct to a wired-only backhaul?
...with the Orbi satellite connected direct to a wireless backhaul?
...with the Orbi satellite connected mixed config backhaul?
I fear all this would require a proper IGMP Multicast handling over the complete system - strongly doubt there is anything the like. In my opinion, and with the eye on the very fast deploying IGMP Multicast based live IPTV solutions, a bigger design error.
I agree that the VLAN implementation is currently limited in Orbi and still needs to cover wireless connectivity as well as being extended to the Satellites and not limited to Router's LAN.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
No word of VLAN. I'm just talking of a proper ICMP Multicast implementation on the LAN side - a LAN implemented and backed by an Orbi solution. Granted, the ISP might run their IPTV traffic on a dedicated VLAN - but once it's on the users NATed LAN, it's no longer VLANed. Just to avoid more confusion 8-)
Even if reading the supplied documentation forth and back, I can't see any indications which kind of set-up are supposed on the user LAN side to work with this IGMP Proxy resp, the customized IGMP for BT. Can't find any related KB entries, too. Reads like yet another barely tested, or Beta tested feature. Gee Netgear, shame on you! So where are the project and product line manager here please?
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Re: IGMP Snooping
I did at one point try to set my Orbi up with VLAN but couldn´t get it to work. I have no idea of which VLAN ID or priority to use. Later, I discovered that the ISP router is not set up with VLAN. See additional info I scanned from the ISP router settings (while not connected to the Internet). My IPTV set up box (STB) uses ethernet only connection (no wifi).
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Re: IGMP Snooping
@Noroddveien wrote:
I did at one point try to set my Orbi up with VLAN but couldn´t get it to work. I have no idea of which VLAN ID or priority to use. Later, I discovered that the ISP router is not set up with VLAN. See additional info I scanned from the ISP router settings (while not connected to the Internet). My IPTV set up box (STB) uses ethernet only connection (no wifi).
Thanks for sharing the router configuration. You are right, it seems that there is no VLAN configiration in the router.
Can you please check the network settings in the IPTV STB. Isn't there any VLAN or IGMP settings?
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Re: IGMP Snooping
Just to clarify to the questions above, the Norwegian (and most Swedish/Danish that I have tested) ISP's are running clean IGMP Snooping in blocking with no VLAN tagging what so ever. This is by far the simplest way to run it aswell. (some older PPP xDSL solutions might need it doh)
Should think this would be an easy addon to the already existing SW running on the ORBI's?
Most of the large ISP's in Norway (where I live), never use any VLAN tagging. This has been testet on several different models, I even tested this before writing this post to make sure nothing was changed. Asus RT router, simply by enabling IGMP proxy and snooping and the TV works on all LAN ports. Tested this with two different ISP's, both works fine. No VLAN tagging or other changes was made.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
I checked the STB (ADB-5743CDX) but couldn’t see any VLAN og IGMP settings there at all. There was something described as MHP-profile=Enhanced Broadcast but I have no idea what that is.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
Yeah they are what u can call dumb stbs, it's a good thing in a way that the CPE will sort everything, but then when u get a CPE withouth the settins, u are kinda stuck. Never seen a norwegian STB with vlan tagging in the box.
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Re: IGMP Snooping
Thanks, ProZac, I think you hit the nail on the head here.
No VLAN tagging - only IGMP proxy and snooping (blocking mode).
I definitely hope NG updates the RBR50 firmware soon.
Wouldn’t think NG wants to lag behind others here.
In the meantime, I have set up the ISP router in bridge mode, deactivated DHCP and connected it to my RBR50 router. I can then keep my home network as before but connect the TV to the ISP router.
However, it forces me to use the ISP router which I want to avoid.
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