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New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Tgterm
Guide

New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Hi - installed Orbi router and two satellites a few days ago.  Firmware v1.12.0.8.  Window 10.  Have had a few brief drops on one of the satellites using an iPad.  Also noticed that MU MIMO and Beamforming were both disabled by default.  Did some research, and found it inconclusive whether these could be enables or if they needed to be fixed with a future firmware release.  Any input on this would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 1 of 20
Tgterm
Guide

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Hi -

I know this is being discussed in a variety of threads, but I was just hoping for a straight answer from someone in the know...I have seen some Netgear reps comment here and there in these threads. 

Should I enable Beamforming?  Should I enable MU MIMO?

Will that increase or decrease the number of drops I have been experiencing, or increase it?  What is the latest position on this?

Is there a firmware release I should be waiting for before I do these things instead?

I have even PM'd DarrenM...no response.

Sigh...

Thank you.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 2 of 20
DarrenM
Sr. NETGEAR Moderator

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Yes with the latest firmware those features should help what your seeing about having them off was a old issue.

 

DarrenM

Message 3 of 20
Tgterm
Guide

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Thanks, Darren.  I did enable those features a couple of days ago.  I am still seeing some occasional drops where my iPad indicates that it cannot find the network, then after a moment or so it comes back up.  Usually on my iPad, when using it in the vicinity of the satellite furthest from the router.  This satellite glowed blue when I set it up, so I am assuming distance from the router is not an issue. 

Based on what I have been reading in these forums, this seems to be a known issue under some varying circumstances.  Is there work in progress to release a firmware version that will prevent these drops in the near future, or is there something else I should be doing on my end?  Thanks.


@DarrenM wrote:

Yes with the latest firmware those features should help what your seeing about having them off was a old issue.

 

DarrenM


 

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 4 of 20
DarrenM
Sr. NETGEAR Moderator

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Hello Tgterm

 

Yes the engineers are always looking at the community and the cases from support to try and fix any issues that are happening. The other things you can try is adjusting the wireless channel and maybe trying to re position the satellites and see if anything changes.

 

DarrenM

Message 5 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming


@DarrenM wrote:

Hello Tgterm

 

Yes the engineers are always looking at the community and the cases from support to try and fix any issues that are happening. The other things you can try is adjusting the wireless channel and maybe trying to re position the satellites and see if anything changes.

 

DarrenM


Darren,

 

I'm a little perplexed by these continued ambiguous responses about MIMO/BeamForming. I see posts dated all the way back to last yr and as of today 8/23/2017 there still no fix or actual respose for this issue.

 

Does it work or not? Why is it still unchecked even after the V1.12.0.18 FW upg?

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 6 of 20
martyfp
Luminary

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

FWIW - i'm on 1.12.0.18 and have both enabled,   my system works really well, no significant drops and everything is very stable.    That said, stability was much the same before I enabled them (on same f/w).   

 

 

Message 7 of 20
Arjun0o
Guide

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

First you have to understand what implicit beamforming and MU-MIMO do.

 

Implicit beamforming is a feature which allows the router to broadcast WiFi signals in a specific direction. It boosts the WiFI signals. If you are experiencing a drop in the connection, this feature should be enabled.

 

MU-MIMO most of the devices today do not support it, yet. It basically divides the bandwidth so that all your devices receive good signals. I think it only supports upto 4 devices at the moment. This feature does not make much difference. I would not enable it.

 

If you are experiencing wireless intermittent issues, these are some things you can do on your end.

 

1. Change the WiFi channels for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. Choose the non overlapping channels like 1,6,11.

2. Check the firmware version on the router and the satellites just to make sure it is the latest.

3. Make sure you do not have electronic devices near the router or satellites especially wireless speakers or cameras. They interfere with the WiFi signals.

 

I hope this helps.

Message 8 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming


@Arjun0o wrote:

First you have to understand what implicit beamforming and MU-MIMO do.

 

Implicit beamforming is a feature which allows the router to broadcast WiFi signals in a specific direction. It boosts the WiFI signals. If you are experiencing a drop in the connection, this feature should be enabled.

 

MU-MIMO most of the devices today do not support it, yet. It basically divides the bandwidth so that all your devices receive good signals. I think it only supports upto 4 devices at the moment. This feature does not make much difference. I would not enable it.

 

If you are experiencing wireless intermittent issues, these are some things you can do on your end.

 

1. Change the WiFi channels for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. Choose the non overlapping channels like 1,6,11.

2. Check the firmware version on the router and the satellites just to make sure it is the latest.

3. Make sure you do not have electronic devices near the router or satellites especially wireless speakers or cameras. They interfere with the WiFi signals.

 

I hope this helps.


OK thanks! I will try that (as well as keep MU-MIMO unchecked)

Message 9 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming


@martyfp wrote:

FWIW - i'm on 1.12.0.18 and have both enabled,   my system works really well, no significant drops and everything is very stable.    That said, stability was much the same before I enabled them (on same f/w).   

 

 


Marty - so that's what I'm talking about: For you it was checked (assume after you did a FW upg).... while for me... it was unchecked and stayed the same after the FW upg....

 

So what gives?

Message 10 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Router model RBR50 with 2 satellites purchased from Costco a couple of months ago.  Aside from the dropped VPN connections there another nagging issue:

 

Have 2 devices connected directly to a NetGear AC1750 modem (model C6300😞 

1) Network drive (western dig)

2) Orbi Router.

The problem is that the network dr. is not visible on the Orbi. This wasn't the case with my prev. router (NetGear nighthawk 1900) . All I did was swap out the prev. nighthawk router for the Orbi.

 

Message 11 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

I enabled BF and immediatly started having issues with 1 of the satellites - it would just lose connection on/off!! Router is in master closet about 70ft away from satellite.

 

I turned it back off and now the satellite stays connected but it's back to the same old issue - dropping intermittently!

 

Sigh - so fed up of this product. Looking at returning and buying the Linksys

Message 12 of 20
st_shaw
Master

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

To avoid issues you need to do both of the following:

1. Turn off the WiFi radios on your modem.

2. Either set the modem into bridge mode to disable it's routing fuctions, or run Orbi in AP mode.

 

Did you perform both of these steps?

Message 13 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

No I have not. What does that have to do with the 2.4GHz network dropping intermittently? The 5G one's work fine....

Message 14 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming


@st_shaw wrote:

To avoid issues you need to do both of the following:

1. Turn off the WiFi radios on your modem.

2. Either set the modem into bridge mode to disable it's routing fuctions, or run Orbi in AP mode.

 

Did you perform both of these steps?


Thanks for the info. 

 

The modem has always had the wireless radio turned off.

 

So now I went ahead and changed Orbi to be in AP mode (modem is still in router mode as it's always been)...

 

Still getting the intermittent dropped signal on the 2.4 GHz network.  Could this be related to the channel? It's set to auto

Message 15 of 20
st_shaw
Master

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

@JeffParker Good.  The change to AP mode should ensure all your devices are on the same network and can see each other.

 

If 5 GHz works but you have issues with 2.4 GHz, then you probably have an issue with the RF environment, not with Orbi. The 2.4 GHz band can be very crowded. I'd recommend doing a WiFi scan with a tool like Acrylic WiFi, inSSIDer, etc. and manually set Orbi to the least crowded channel. Make sure to use set Orbi only to channel 1, 6, or 11. It might help also if you set Orbi to enable "20/40 MHz coexistence"

 

If you live in an area with lots of other WiFi routers nearby, the 2.4 GHz band might be too crowded to be usable.  

 

You could also be affected by other devices in your home.  Zigbee (e.g. Hue lights), microwave ovens, cordless phones, Sonos, Bluetooth devices, wireless soundbars, etc. can all interfere with 2.4 GHz as well.

 

 

Message 16 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming


@st_shaw wrote:

@JeffParker Good.  The change to AP mode should ensure all your devices are on the same network and can see each other.

 

If 5 GHz works but you have issues with 2.4 GHz, then you probably have an issue with the RF environment, not with Orbi. The 2.4 GHz band can be very crowded. I'd recommend doing a WiFi scan with a tool like Acrylic WiFi, inSSIDer, etc. and manually set Orbi to the least crowded channel. Make sure to use set Orbi only to channel 1, 6, or 11. It might help also if you set Orbi to enable "20/40 MHz coexistence"

 

If you live in an area with lots of other WiFi routers nearby, the 2.4 GHz band might be too crowded to be usable.  

 

You could also be affected by other devices in your home.  Zigbee (e.g. Hue lights), microwave ovens, cordless phones, Sonos, Bluetooth devices, wireless soundbars, etc. can all interfere with 2.4 GHz as well.

 

 


Thanks @st_shaw

So I called support and spent over an hr. The made me change a bunch of settings:

MTU size: 1450

CTS/RTS thresh: 2200

Preamble mode: long pream

2.4Ghz chann: 06

 

I seems to be more stable now but I don't think it's bec. of the above changes: I moved the downstairs sattelite and also disconnected it. Then saw that the laptop wifi latched onto the router (earlier it was latched onto the downstairs sattelite).... and it connected w/5GHz.

 

It's been 2 days and there's only been ~2 drops - not sure if its the same issue or if my company's VPN hicupped (so keeping an eye on it)

 

Any thoughts on the above? Also - if a device connects to a particular sattelite/router - does it always stay connected to it or does it bounce betw. routers/satellites?

Message 17 of 20
st_shaw
Master

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

 

I'd want to do a channel scan, as I suggested, before setting channel 6.  How did Netgear know that was the best channel?

 

Many devices will not switch to the nearest AP, as long as the AP they are connected to is still there.  Laptops are especially sticky.  Phones are better.  It's a good idea to power-cycle the wifi on your devices, or reboot the devices, after you power cycle the Orbi or any satellites.  This will make sure your sticky devices pick the best AP.

Message 18 of 20
JeffParker
Tutor

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

Still getting inermittent drops...

 

Should I turn daisychaining on?

Message 19 of 20
st_shaw
Master

Re: New Orbi RBK53 install - a few drops, questions about MU MIMO and Beamforming

I'm not clear enough on what remaining issues you now have to recommend anything.  You can certainly try daisy-chaining.  But it only makes sense when you have two satellites, one is too far away, and the other is between the first sat and the router.

Message 20 of 20
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