ORBI RBK50/RBS50 Tips, Tricks, Hidden Secrets, etc.,

[SW_]

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@CrimpOn wrote:

Does the Orbi not measure well?  Those processes (d2d, net-scan) show 0 CPU.  A lot less than Bitdefender.

I did the same experiment, and found that my CPU load varies dramatically over time while the Attached Devices screen is up: from 8% to 56%, but mostly under 20%.  I do not think the Attached Devices scan runs continuously.  (There might even be a parameter for how often it runs.)

I completely agree that a CPU load over 60% seems high.  Would not seem to have room for additional devices.

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The Attached Devices page refreshes every ~5secs and the debug page CPU % will fluctuate.  It could go beyond 60% depending on how many Satellites and the number of devices talking/connecting to each Satellites.  My Orbi setup has slightly lower tput when comparing v2.5.0.38/40 to previous firmware version, most likely due to background net-scan/d2d activities post FW upgrade.  Not a concern at the moment because it's fast enough to get things done.

[SW_]

A picture to show even higer CPU usage than 60%.  Also, just in case if anyone wants to monitor background processes via telnet window, follow these steps:

1. Enable telnet via debug.htm page
   • http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm
2. telnet into Orbi
   • telnet 192.168.1.1
3. type this cmd at the telnet window
   • top

Check out attached picture.

[Ken2122]

Great tip, thanks!  Hey, slight tangent: I noticed on your attached screenshot pic, you are utilizing Guest Network 5G for devices such as thermostat and Chromecast? I have always associated the use of Guest Network for giving temporary access to WiFi. In your case, is that some sort of work-around for segmentation ....a poor mans VLAN of sorts?

[SW_]

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@Ken2122 wrote:

Great tip, thanks!  Hey, slight tangent: I noticed on your attached screenshot pic, you are utilizing Guest Network 5G for devices such as thermostat and Chromecast? I have always associated the use of Guest Network for giving temporary access to WiFi. In your case, is that some sort of work-around for segmentation ....a poor mans VLAN of sorts?

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@Ken2122, very savy for noticing "a poor mans VLAN of sorts". 

Yes, a work-around for IoT stability.  Guest Network also has its own interface, which helps isolating IoT traffic from the main SSID traffic.  This has prevented my IoT devices from going offline/online randomly.  YMMV.

[Ragar99]

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@SW_ wrote:

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@Ken2122, very savy for noticing "a poor mans VLAN of sorts". 

Yes, a work-around for IoT stability.  Guest Network also has its own interface, which helps isolating IoT traffic from the main SSID traffic.  This has prevented my IoT devices from going offline/online randomly.  YMMV.

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I don't follow the part about isolating traffic.  Is there a separate DHCP pool for Guest?

[SW_]

Here are the internal interfaces, i.e. iface[]:

NORMAL:AP:wifi0:ath0:@wifi-iface[0]:wl

NORMAL:AP:wifi1:ath1:@wifi-iface[2]:wla

GUEST:AP:wifi0:ath02:@wifi-iface[3]:wlg1

GUEST:AP:wifi1:ath11:@wifi-iface[4]:wla1

BACKHAUL:AP:wifi0:ath01:@wifi-iface[1]:wlg_ap_bh

BACKHAUL:AP:wifi2:ath2:@wifi-iface[5]:wla_2nd_ap_bh

[Ragar99]

Interface isolation in the air, but not DHCP pool or subnet isolation once routing starts?  How does Netgear make the Guest option to "Allow guests to see each other and access my local network" work when unchecked?  

[CrimpOn]

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@Ragar99 wrote:

Interface isolation in the air, but not DHCP pool or subnet isolation once routing starts?  How does Netgear make the Guest option to "Allow guests to see each other and access my local network" work when unchecked?  

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The Guest Help Screen (at the bottom) is pretty specific.  When the option is not checked, devices connected to the Guest SSID (They say SSID because it does not have to be spelled "Guest".) can communicate only with the internet and other devices on the same SSID.  "How they do it?", is programming in the Orbi, and not simple programming, either. 

I did a simple experiment.  Enabled Guest network.  Connected a laptop to Guest.  Did a network scan.  Found only my laptop.  Tried to open the Orbi web interface: failed.  Tried to telnet/SSH to Orbi and several Raspberry Pi's: failed.  Internet connection works fine.  Interestingly, this laptop has an IP address in the LAN Setup table and that was the IP it got via DHCP.

Or, did I not understand the question correctly?

[ekhalil]

Please note that in the new Orbi RBK850 (Orbi AX), the Guest network is given an own subnet, spearated from the main LAN. This is a changed functionality than what is currently in Orbi Gen 1.

By default the following subnets are set in RBK850:

Main LAN: 192.168.1.1/24

Guest LAN: 192.168.2.1/24

VPN: 192.168.254.1/24

[CrimpOn]

Thanks for the information.  How interesting!  What happens when you connect to the Guest network with a device that has an Assigned IP in the LAN Setup table?

[ekhalil]

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@CrimpOn wrote:

..... What happens when you connect to the Guest network with a device that has an Assigned IP in the LAN Setup table?

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It will not work. 🙂 

The device will get it's reserved IP address (192.168.1.x), the gateway will be 192.168.2.1 (Guest network's gateway), but will not have internet access. This is probably a software bug.

[SW_]

@Ragar99  wrote:

Interface isolation in the air, but not DHCP pool or subnet isolation once routing starts?  How does Netgear make the Guest option to "Allow guests to see each other and access my local network" work when unchecked?  

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Isolation at each interface, which access control can be applied via MACs/IPs/Subnets.  The same result can be achieved by creating different subnets for Guest/Main networks/SSIDs.  Whether access control, i.e., client/traffic is allowed to connect/flow across between these interfaces are enforced, will depend on if the box is ticked or not.

[SW_]

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@CrimpOn wrote:

Thanks for the information.  How interesting!  What happens when you connect to the Guest network with a device that has an Assigned IP in the LAN Setup table?

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The secret sauce is the internal routing table.  By default, IPs from different subnets are not allowed to see each other unless there's an entry, which explicity allows them.

[SW_]

What is the effect of ticking/unticking "Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence"?

Run this command at the telnet window:

• iwconfig ath0
• iwconfig ath01

[x] Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence

ath0 IEEE 802.11ng ESSID:"XXXX" Mode:Master Frequency:2.452 GHz Access Point: XX

Bit Rate:192 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm

ath01 IEEE 802.11ng ESSID:"NETGEAR_ORBI_hidden16"

Mode:Master Frequency:2.452 GHz Access Point: XX

Bit Rate:192 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm

[ ] Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence

ath0 IEEE 802.11ng ESSID:"XXXX" Mode:Master Frequency:2.427 GHz Access Point: XX

Bit Rate:400 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm

ath01 IEEE 802.11ng ESSID:"NETGEAR_ORBI_hidden16"

Mode:Master Frequency:2.427 GHz Access Point: XX

Bit Rate:400 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm

It'll affect the performance of both fronhaul and backhaul.  If you must boost 2.4GHz performance, now you know what to do.  

[FURRYe38]

Some historical 20/40Mhz Info:

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/30969-what-do-80211ns-optional-features-m...

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/31743-bye-bye-40-mhz-mode-in-24-ghz-part-...

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/31744-bye-bye-40-mhz-mode-in-24-ghz-part-...

MU-MIMO:
http://blog.dlink.com/antennas-the-more-the-merrier/
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/32898-is-mu-mimo-ready-for-prime-time
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-howto/32944-how-we-test-mu-mimo

[ekhalil]

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@SW_ wrote:

......

Bit Rate:192 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm

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Of course, 40 MHz channel bandwidth will make it possible to reach higher bit rates than with 20 MHz. 

But the downside is that at 40 MHz you will have a bigger chance for channel overlapping / interference and higher chance to have collisions with other wireless networks around you, which will lead to lower throughputs.

[SW_]

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@ekhalil wrote:
...

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But the downside is that at 40 MHz you will have a bigger chance for channel overlapping / interference and higher chance to have collisions with other wireless networks around you, which will lead to lower throughputs.

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Yeah, there's always such a possibility.  To keep it simple, just let Orbi auto detect/select the best available 2.4GHz channels to use.

As a reference, my neighbors are ~6 feet in between, there's a school/Starbucks across the street blasting their WiFi signals 24/7.  There's never an unused/free non-overlapping 2.4GHz channels.  My Orbi auto selects the best ones, channels 4(p) and 8(s), in my case.  My 2.4GHz clients are happier with 40MHz than 20MHz.  YMMV.

If this doesn't work as expected for your setup, you're only two clicks away to get back from where you've started.

Take a look at the attached picture.

[SW_]

To find out if Orbi FW was updated manually:

1. Enable telnet via debug.htm page
   • http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm
2. Telnet into Orbi
   • telnet 192.168.1.1
3. Type this cmd at the telnet window
   • cat /tmp/satellite_device_info_cmd

root@RBR50:/# cat /tmp/satellite_device_info_cmd
  {
    "mac address" : "XXXX",
    "ip address" : "192.168.1.252",
    "module name" : "RBS50",
    "device name" : "RBS50",
    "current version" : "V2.5.0.40",
    "serial number" : "XXXX",
    "signal strength" : "64",
    "upgrade method" : "MANUAL",
    "last update" : "2019_11.10_16:49:9",
    "last checked" : "2019_12.9_11:26:33",
    "device mode" : "3"
  },
  {
    "mac address" : "XXXX",
    "ip address" : "192.168.1.253",
    "module name" : "RBS50",
    "device name" : "RBS50",
    "current version" : "V2.5.0.40",
    "serial number" : "XXXX",
    "signal strength" : "62",
    "upgrade method" : "MANUAL",
    "last update" : "2019_11.10_16:57:17",
    "last checked" : "2019_12.9_11:26:33"
  }  

[SW_]

Okay, if you really want separate SSIDs for 2.4GHz and 5GHz, Guest Network is your friend.  You can also use this to setup 2.4GHz IoT devices.

1. Turn on Guest Network
2. Tick Allow guests to see each other and access my local network
3. Enable telnet via debug.htm page
   • http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm
4. telnet into Orbi
   • telnet 192.168.1.1
5. type this cmd at the telnet window
   • config get wlg1_ssid
   • config set wlg1_ssid="Guest24GHz"
   • config get wlg1_ssid
   • config commit
   • reboot

I've briefly tested this and the new SSID seems to stick after reboot and I'm able to connect to 2.4GHz SSID.  Not sure if this will stick forever, but you can give it a shot to work around your problem.  See the attached picture!

Hopefully, NG doesn't kill this in future FW release.  Good Luck!

[SW_]

BTW, please make sure that step 1 & 2 above are setup normally with a new SSID, i.e, "Guest" or something else.  You only need to change the SSID for 2.4GHz via telnet later.  After rebooting the Orbi, let it settle down and do not make/save any new change afterward.  Otherwise, you'll have to rinse and repeat if the telnet change disappears as a result of applying new changes.

[SW_]

Updating a previous post...

To enable separate SSIDs for 2.4GHz and 5GHz, Guest Network is your friend.  You can use this to setup IoT device, which requires 2.4GHz or 5GHz to be on separate SSIDs/bands, to force IoT device to be associated/connected to the Orbi or one of the Satellites.

From Basic Tap:

1. Select on Guest Network
2. Tick all Wireless settings
   1. [x] Enable Guest Network
   2. [x] Enable SSID Broadcast
   3. [x] Allow guests to see each other and access my local network, 
3. Enter a new Guest SSID, select a security option, enter security password, and hit "Apply" button
4. Enable Orbi/Satellite telnet via debug.htm page
   • http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm
5. telnet into Orbi/Satellite
   • telnet 192.168.1.1
6. type this cmd at the Orbi/Satellite telnet window
   • config get wlg1_ssid
     • This will return the current SSID
   • config set wlg1_ssid="NEST24GHz"
     • This replace old SSID with new SSID above for 2.4GHz band.  Use a different SSID for each Satellite if you want to.  In my example, NEST24GHz, NEST24GHz1, NEST24GHz2 for 2.4GHz, and NEST for 5GHz.
   • config get wlg1_ssid
     • This should return new SSID above
   • config commit
     • This save the change above
   • reboot
     • This will restart/reboot the main Orbi.  For Satellite, please power cycle!

I've briefly tested this and all 3 new SSIDs stick after a reboot/power cycle of both Satellites.  I'm able to connect to NEST2.4GHz and NEST SSIDs respectively.  With this change, I didn't run into the dreadful "Config Sync" loop seen earlier when splitting/separating the main SSID.  Not sure if this will stick forever, but you can give it a shot to work around your problem.  See the attached pictures!

[SW_]

To disable Guest Nework 2.4GHz or 5GHz SSID broadcast separately, change one of these two from 1 to 0 via telnet.

• wla1_endis_guestSSIDbro
  • enable/disable 5GHz guest SSID broadcast
• wlg1_endis_guestSSIDbro
  • enable/disable 2.4GHz guest SSID broadcast

For example:

1. Enable Orbi/Satellite telnet via debug.htm page
   • http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm
2. Telnet into Orbi/Satellite
   • telnet 192.168.1.1
3. Type this cmd at the Orbi/Satellite telnet window
   • config show | grep guestSSIDbro
     wla1_endis_guestSSIDbro=1
     wlg1_endis_guestSSIDbro=1
   • config set wlg1_endis_guestSSIDbro=0
     
     • Disable 2.4GHz SSID broadcast
   • config commit
     • Save the changes

[SW_]

How far should I place my Orbi satellite from my Orbi router?  NG has recently updated their recommendation regarding Satellite's distance.  Hint: It's not an exact minimum distance, or 30ft.  

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The exact distance you should place your Orbi satellite from your Orbi router varies based on your environment.

The satellite ring LED colors tell you if it’s too far from your Orbi router:

• Blue. The Orbi router and satellite successfully synced, and the connection between the router and satellite is good.
• Amber. The Orbi router and satellite successfully synced, and the connection between the router and satellite is fair. Consider moving the Orbi satellite closer to the Orbi router.
• Magenta. The Orbi router and satellite failed to sync. Move the satellite closer to the Orbi router.

Last Updated:12/03/2019 | Article ID: 000036466

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[CrimpOn]

This sounds like the previous advice from Netgear.  While useful and certainly correct, this advice is not particularly helpful. 

My advice is to move it away from the router from one "practical" location to another (where there is power, for example, and not in the middle of a room or next to a refrigerator) until the ring is no longer blue, and then back off.  Then, look for "dead spots" and confirm that the entire area needing coverage is in fact "covered" and that a huge amount of radio coverage is not "wasted" (into a neighbor's house, for example).

I agree completely that being fixated on a "rule of thumb" like 30 ft. isn't particuarly helpful and it's good to know that Netgear does not make such a recommendation.

[FURRYe38]

30ft may not be a fixed disatance, however I recommend that this is a good starting point for some who need to troubleshoot or even beging to setup there systems. Of course, users need to remember wifi distance and placement also depends on buiding materials and envronment conditions, such as other wifi neighbors. 30 feet is a good begining starting point for users to start with. They and certainly adjust to there needs and how the system responds to placement and conditions. 

We've seen lots of posts with good operation at 30 feet and upwards of 60 feet and beyond. 

The sweet spot will differ for everyone.