Orbi RBR50/RBS50 - Cannot downgrade firmware

[MartonDotNO]

My RBR 50 (router) and my RBS 50 (Sattelite) won't downgrade!

RBR 50: V2.7.3.22 - current version

RBS 50: V2.7.3.22 - current version

ISSUE nr 1: Multiple times a day my RBS 50 losses connection. Even when I'm hardwired from my PC to the Satellite I'm not even able to log on to the web interface thru 198.168.1.1 or directly to the satellite IP 198.168.1.3 this issue started to occur when I upgraded the software on both units to the version you see above.

ISSUE nr 2: Tryed to downgrade being hardwired to the router and satellite thru the web service directly on 198.168.1.1 (main) and thru directly on the satellite IP on 192.168.1.3. After it goes to 100% the page refreshes and I get a browser error code that it's not able to rejoin the web interface. After some waiting, it's back online and still with the V2.7.3.22.

When my router and satellite was working fine I had this version RBR 50: V2.3.5.30 RBS 50: V2.5.1.8
- Connection status between the 2 units I own is the same from the old SW version to the new (Status: GOOD, 5G)
- Location of the 2 units is also unchanged and no other obstructions or electronics that I think can be a factor I found this post on someone with the same issue, but that post is closed with a solution that did not help me.

So I hope it is OK that I try again here. https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR50-RBS50-Cannot-downgrade-firmware/m-p/1836166
If there is some key info needed from me let me know.

[CrimpOn]

There have been many reports of customers using the Manual Update tab on the Firmware Update page to load previous firmware on the Orbi.  During this process, the Orbi will reboot, which causes the web browser to lose the connection.  When the router has finished rebooting, the web page has to reauthenticate and get connected again.  The steps are normal. What is not normal is the firmware not changing.

Those reports also describe their Orbi systems automatically updating to version 2.7.3.22 again. This puts them back with the problem which caused them to load previous firmware.  A vicious circle.  There are ways to prevent the autoupdate, either:

• Adding an inexpensive router upstream of the Orbi and having that router block access to the Netgear firmware update sites, or
• Using telnet to change the version number stored in memory so that it does not recognize the new version as 'newer'. This hack has to be reapplied any time the router reboots (a nuisance).

It is an ugly situation for some customers.  And clearly worse in your situation if the manual update process does not work at all.

[MartonDotNO]

Hi, didnt know anyone replayed to my post. So thanks and sorry for the late respons. 
Ok, so reboot =loose conmnection, makes sense of course. 

So going forward. do you know the url i need to block for not the router to download the update manualy?
Telnet sounds like an option that will be to advanced for me. 

Can also add that when this connection breaks with my sattelite i an not even get on the WEB UI on it. So if im wired to the sattlite i can access it with 192.168.1.3, but when this connection issues hits me im not able to do it. 

[FURRYe38]

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update?

[MartonDotNO]

Yes, reset has been preformed and sad to say it didnt resolve it. 

[MartonDotNO]

Hi again, took the time to look at a video on Telnet enable feature on the Router don't look to be an option here for me. Might have been removed on the newer firmware?

[CrimpOn]

There appear to be several issues being discussed at the same time:

• A connection issue between router and satellite
  I get the sense that this issue was not present before the router updated to V2.7.3.22.
  Is this correct?
  If so, then manually loading previous firmware might be a temporary solution until Netgear produces new firmware which corrects the problem.
• Unable to manually load previous firmware on the router and satellite
• Preventing the router/satellite from automatically updating firmware to V2.7.3.22

Manually loading firmware is best done when connected directly to the router or satellite. i.e. after downloading and unpacking the *.img files for both router and satellite:

• Connect directly to the router (192.168.1.1), navigate to the Firmware Update, Manual Update tab, select the firmware and update.
• Connect directly to the satellite (192.168.1.3) and select Firmware Update from the home screen menu.

Every time I have done this, the manual upload has worked and when the device restarts it has the version that was uploaded.  What has been reported in the forum is that the router sometimes notices the available firmware and does an automatic update again. There may be a very small window to prevent this.  It will certainly prevent auto-update if the router is temporarily disconnected from the Internet.

There are two options for preventing auto-update:

• Place a router between the Orbi and Internet which blocks access to http.fw.updates1.netgear.com
  This can be any old router. Could even be the ISP combination modem/router.
  This does create a "Double NAT" condition which interferes with certain applications.
  https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT 
  But it's a choice (a) have no Double NAT and experience problems, or (b) fix the primary problem and live with the consequences of Double NAT.
  When access to http.fw.updates1.netgear.com is blocked, the Orbi cannot auto-update.
• User telnet to block the Orbi from recognizing that newer firmware is available by replacing the file firmware_version with a bigger number than any possible Orbi firmware from Netgear.
  Netgear removed the telnet option from the debug page starting with V2.7.3.22, so if a previous firmware has been installed on the router & satellite, the telnet option should be there.

[MartonDotNO]

Thanks for the follow 

---

@CrimpOn wrote:

There appear to be several issues being discussed at the same time:

• A connection issue between router and satellite
  I get the sense that this issue was not present before the router updated to V2.7.3.22.
  Is this correct?
  If so, then manually loading previous firmware might be a temporary solution until Netgear produces new firmware which corrects the problem.
• Unable to manually load previous firmware on the router and satellite
• Preventing the router/satellite from automatically updating firmware to V2.7.3.22

Manually loading firmware is best done when connected directly to the router or satellite. i.e. after downloading and unpacking the *.img files for both router and satellite:

• Connect directly to the router (192.168.1.1), navigate to the Firmware Update, Manual Update tab, select the firmware and update.
• Connect directly to the satellite (192.168.1.3) and select Firmware Update from the home screen menu.

Every time I have done this, the manual upload has worked and when the device restarts it has the version that was uploaded.  What has been reported in the forum is that the router sometimes notices the available firmware and does an automatic update again. There may be a very small window to prevent this.  It will certainly prevent auto-update if the router is temporarily disconnected from the Internet.

There are two options for preventing auto-update:

• Place a router between the Orbi and Internet which blocks access to http.fw.updates1.netgear.com
  This can be any old router. Could even be the ISP combination modem/router.
  This does create a "Double NAT" condition which interferes with certain applications.
  https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT 
  But it's a choice (a) have no Double NAT and experience problems, or (b) fix the primary problem and live with the consequences of Double NAT.
  When access to http.fw.updates1.netgear.com is blocked, the Orbi cannot auto-update.
• User telnet to block the Orbi from recognizing that newer firmware is available by replacing the file firmware_version with a bigger number than any possible Orbi firmware from Netgear.
  Netgear removed the telnet option from the debug page starting with V2.7.3.22, so if a previous firmware has been installed on the router & satellite, the telnet option should be there.

---

Thanks for the follow-up. Got a similar idea based on your solution that helped me tonight. And I think it's solved.. I hope!
Your input was: downgrade the individual units. Tried that before, since I don't have an old router to set up for a block I did the next best thing and joinked the internet connection with the firmware v2.3.5.30 pre downloaded and ready to be uploaded to the RBR 50 and RBS50 that was stable for me before this update. 
When the v2.3.5.30 was installed i turned on the Enable Telnet feature in the 192.168.1.1/debug.htm and turned off the auto upgrade settings in the CMD(telnet).
Fingers crossed that this runs stable now and thanks a lot for all the help and input. 
Next issue to solve is to get my Miele Dryer to connect to the Wifi 🙂 Have a good night

[CrimpOn]

In addition to turning off the auto-update setting, I suggest replacing that text file.

Since you now have V2.3.5.30 on both router and satellite, log into each with telnet and type:

echo V8.3.5.30 > firmware_version

cat firmware_version

The "8" is nothing special as long as it is greater than any possible Orbi firmware. Netgear is still on V2.3.7.33, so it seems unlikely they will get all the way to V8(something) any time soon.

Both of these hacks (auto update and version number) last only until the next time the router reboots.  The reboot causes firmware to be reloaded from read-only memory and the changes will disappear.  Soon after that, the Orbi will discover new firmware and update on its own.

I have my both my Orbi router and satellite on UPS so that power has to be out for a minimum of 30 minutes before they shut down and wake up when the electricity is restored. This happens maybe 1-2 times a year.

[MartonDotNO]

---

@CrimpOn wrote:

In addition to turning off the auto-update setting, I suggest replacing that text file.

Since you now have V2.3.5.30 on both router and satellite, log into each with telnet and type:

echo V8.3.5.30 > firmware_version

cat firmware_version

The "8" is nothing special as long as it is greater than any possible Orbi firmware. Netgear is still on V2.3.7.33, so it seems unlikely they will get all the way to V8(something) any time soon.

Both of these hacks (auto update and version number) last only until the next time the router reboots.  The reboot causes firmware to be reloaded from read-only memory and the changes will disappear.  Soon after that, the Orbi will discover new firmware and update on its own.

I have my both my Orbi router and satellite on UPS so that power has to be out for a minimum of 30 minutes before they shut down and wake up when the electricity is restored. This happens maybe 1-2 times a year.

---

RBR50: Done
RBS50: Have not logged on with telnet and made any setting changes. Hope I only needed to do it on RBR50 and not the satellite. Tried to log on, but the username and pw I use to log directly on to it won't be accepted in telnet. Not sure why (have also enabled Telnet on RBS50)

[CrimpOn]

---

@MartonDotNO wrote:

---

RBS50: Have not logged on with telnet and made any setting changes. Hope I only needed to do it on RBR50 and not the satellite. Tried to log on, but the username and pw I use to log directly on to it won't be accepted in telnet. Not sure why (have also enabled Telnet on RBS50)

---

Very strange.  I just logged into my RBS50 satellite using the same credentials that I use for web login and for telnet to the router. ("admin" and the password)

Maybe there was a typo when entering the password?

[MartonDotNO]

Ye it is strange. Not a typo. Even tryed with another keyboard

[MartonDotNO]

---

@MartonDotNO wrote:

---

@CrimpOn wrote:

In addition to turning off the auto-update setting, I suggest replacing that text file.

Since you now have V2.3.5.30 on both router and satellite, log into each with telnet and type:

echo V8.3.5.30 > firmware_version

cat firmware_version

The "8" is nothing special as long as it is greater than any possible Orbi firmware. Netgear is still on V2.3.7.33, so it seems unlikely they will get all the way to V8(something) any time soon.

Both of these hacks (auto update and version number) last only until the next time the router reboots.  The reboot causes firmware to be reloaded from read-only memory and the changes will disappear.  Soon after that, the Orbi will discover new firmware and update on its own.

I have my both my Orbi router and satellite on UPS so that power has to be out for a minimum of 30 minutes before they shut down and wake up when the electricity is restored. This happens maybe 1-2 times a year.

---

RBR50: Done
RBS50: Have not logged on with telnet and made any setting changes. Hope I only needed to do it on RBR50 and not the satellite. Tried to log on, but the username and pw I use to log directly on to it won't be accepted in telnet. Not sure why (have also enabled Telnet on RBS50)

---

Update: 21.09.21 - 11:01 
RBR 50 - Router Firmware Version, V8.3.5.30 cat firmware_version (is this a good sign?!?!)
RBS50: Firmware Version: V2.7.3.22 now. So looks like the **bleep** has updated it self sometime when I was sleeping. 
Tryed to log on to the IP address to my RBS50 right now and it wont let me even connect today. Yesterday I was able to get as far as du put in username and password, but even with the correct one I was not able. 
Today it says: can not open a connection to host, on port 23: can not connect (see added screenshot)

[MartonDotNO]

Screenshot RBR50 status 

[MartonDotNO]

Screenshot RBS50

[CrimpOn]

Certainly looks as if the satellite auto-updated.  It is a real struggle to keep this from happening.  I am not confident that the "auto update" setting does anything. I am very confident that the firmware_version trick does because that is what Voxel does to keep his firmware from getting updated by Netgear.  Voxel has made substantial changes to Orbi firmware, but there are many parts of the code that are binary to begin with and he cannot change or recompile them.  Whatever code handles updating is in the part that he cannot change. Once he began changing firmware_version, his firmware is no longer affected by Netgear's update routines.

[MartonDotNO]

---

@CrimpOn wrote:

Certainly looks as if the satellite auto-updated.  It is a real struggle to keep this from happening.  I am not confident that the "auto update" setting does anything. I am very confident that the firmware_version trick does because that is what Voxel does to keep his firmware from getting updated by Netgear.  Voxel has made substantial changes to Orbi firmware, but there are many parts of the code that are binary to begin with and he cannot change or recompile them.  Whatever code handles updating is in the part that he cannot change. Once he began changing firmware_version, his firmware is no longer affected by Netgear's update routines.

---

Ok. Not i have been able to access both on telnet and added the "cheat" version code you gave me. So now both have the same. 
Crossing my fingers again to see if it sticks. But it looks ok and thanks again so much for everything. 

Not even sure what post I need to mark as solution.

Funny thing.. for some reason the password on the login telnet on the satellite was nothing. Tryed just to hit enter and I got in. Scary also

[FURRYe38]

One can try Voxels FW on your Orbi system:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Voxels-FW-available-for-50-series-Orbi-only-available/m-p/1883...
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/custom-firmware-build-for-orbi-a-la-faq.65224/
You can revert back to stock FW if it doesn't work out for you.