RBR50: one satellite works fine; other can handle Ethernet or Wi-Fi but not both

[Bernie_in_MA]

About two years ago (in February 2020), I got an RBR50 with two satellites to use with a new Verizon FIOS connection and an existing Ethernet patch panel with Cat5 running to many rooms in my house. The RBR50 is in the basement, cabled between the patch panel and the Verizon FIOS unit/wireless router. The RBR50 operates in bridge mode (I think that's what it's called; IP addresses are doled out only by the Verizon unit). One satellite (RBS50) is one floor above and one room away from the RBR50, connected through the patch panel via Ethernet. Wi-Fi and Ethernet connections between other devices and this satellite are fine. The other satellite has, in retrospect, never worked properly. Its home is in a bedroom that is two floors above the RBR50 and a couple of rooms away (at the opposite end of the house from the good RBS50). One of my main reasons for getting the Orbi system was to improve Wi-Fi to that bedroom. 

After substantial experimentation (and partially giving up by putting a Netgear EAX15 range extender in the bedroom, connected as an access point through a small switch in the bedroom to the Ethernet jack to the patch panel), I think I've confirmed the following:

1. If I don't use an Ethernet port on this RBS50 to connect to the RBR50, I get a 5GHz connection to the router, and Wi-Fi devices can connect to this satellite. Of course, I don't get to rely Ethernet for the backhaul, and the 5GHz connection to the bedroom in question (and nearby bedrooms) is spotty.

2. If I use any of the four Ethernet ports on this RBS50 to connect to the RBR50 (whether directly or through the patch panel, trying at least three different Cat5 cables), then this RBS50 and all devices patched into it I get an Ethernet connection. But the Wi-Fi on the RBS50 doesn't work.

In short, one RBS50 works fine. For the other RBS50: I can use Ethernet; or I can use Wi-Fi; but I can't use both.

Firmware is V2.7.4.24. Multiple times I've uninstalled the flaky RBS50, reset it, and reinstalled it. I've not had the energy to try a factory reset on the RBR50. 

Any suggestions?

[FURRYe38]

FW version the same on the RBS as on the RBR? 

Try swapping RBS with each other to see of the problem follows with the one RBS or doesn't. 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and extender(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. Basement is not recommended for the RBR. All that concrete and steel in the foundation can cause problems for wireless and wireless connected RBS. 

CAT6 is recommended. 

[Bernie_in_MA]

"FW version the same on the RBS as on the RBR?" Yes--both RBS50 units have same firmware version number as RBR50.

"Try swapping RBS with each other to see of the problem follows with the one RBS or doesn't." Probably worth doing, although it seems unlikely to reveal much. The problematic RBS50 has the same problems when connected through the patch panel from separate wall jacks in 2 different rooms that are 2 floors away from the RBR50, from a family room less than 20 feet from the RBR50, and when connected directly to the RBR50 from inches away. Well, I'm guessing a little about what happens at a distance of inches; I do know that with an Ethernet between the two units, I seem to have no Wi-Fi on the RBS50.

"What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?" About 2,500 of finished space. Walls aren't anything special--only concrete is for exterior walls. The RBR50 lives in the basement next to the patch panel, the FIOS equipment, a 16-port gigabit switch, and some other stuff. 

"What is the distance between the router and extender(s)?" The distance shouldn't really matter in terms of connecting the router to the satellites, as the Cat5 cable in the walls does that. I suppose that the distance might affect which unit a Wi-Fi device tries to connect to, but I'm ignorant about such subjects. The satellite with no problems is about 30 feet away plus one floor from the router. The problematic unit has been tried multiple places (see above).

"CAT6 is recommended" No doubt. But I had most of my house wired in 2000, when Cat5 was young and Cat6 a dream. Some of my wiring (not used by the wonky satellite except for some tests) dates to about 1993. Using my longest run with that ancient wire (maybe 30 feet, including twists and turns), my main computer gets a wired speedtest of over 600Mbps (according to Ookla); and higher, according to Verizon's numbers. 

Thanks for the suggestions and questions. I'll try putting swapping the problematic RBS50 for the one that works and see what happens. 

[FURRYe38]

What is the brand and model# of the LAN switch? 

CAT5 cabling or the line up to the RBS remote location could be faulty. Also CAT5 officially only supports 100Mpbs, not really rated for 1000Mbs which Orbi supports. Why swapping RBS locations to see if the problem follows or not will be helpful. 

Distance between RBR and RBS is important, regardless of wireless or ethernet connected. 

20feet is too close between the RBR and RBS. 

For that size of home, the RBR and just 1 RBS would work, even if ethernet connected. When I run my RBK50, with RBS ethernet connected, it's covering a 5000sq ft home. No issues. 

[KevinLiT]

Hello Berni_in_MA,

Welcome to the NETGEAR Community!

I understand that you are not able to connect your RBS50 via ethernet and use the Wi-Fi that is emitted from the satellite. 

Please try the following steps to resolve this issue:

• Disconnect all ethernet devices from your RBR50.
• Turn off the RBR50. 
• Turn off and disconnect the RBS50. 
• Turn on the RBR50. (Wait for it to fully boot up) 
• Connect your RBS50 via ethernet.
• Then turn on your RBS50 and verify connectivity. 

Best,

Kevin

Community Team

[Bernie_in_MA]

My main switch is a basic, 16-port Trendnet GREENnet gigabit, model TEG-S16Dg, Version v1.0R. I'm not sure when I bought it--maybe 2014 or later. The user manual has a certification page dated 2011, and its replacement version came out around 2020-2021. 

Your mention of cabling and switches led me to modify my setup slightly:

1. All patch cables connecting the RBS50 satellites are now CAT6. Wiring inside the walls is still 2000-vintage CAT5.

2. I slightly simplified the connections at the patch panel. The two RBS50 satellites are now patched to the RBR50. One had instead been patched to the Verizon FIOS router/switch, into which the RBR50 is patched. I've no idea whether this change should matter, but it can't hurt..

3. While a single RBS50 satellite would perhaps be adequate for some houses the size of mine, I face some common constraints:

   a. The RBR50 router has to be in the basement, near the patch panel, so much of its would-be range is useless.

   b. The most effective location for a single RBS50 satellite would be in the living room, directly under the bedroom with the weak signal. That location is forbidden to me, unfortunately.

4. With a single RBS50 satellite on the first floor at the "wrong" end of the house, the signal strength in the bedroom where it was most needed is terrible. Hence my attempts to put the second satellite in that bedroom, with Ethernet backhaul. And that's why in the last week or so I put the EAX15 range extender (as an access point) in that bedroom.

Based on suggestions from you and @KevinLiT, I tried Kevin's suggested steps (or variations on them) at several locations around the house, sometimes adding in doing a reset of the RBS50 satellite, "removing" it from the RBR50 setup, and then adding it back in. I grew to hate both the Orbi app and the web-based interface, but that's not really relevant. My personally most interesting test location was a few inches away from my always-working RBS50 satellite, patching the suspect unit into the working unit--that's an Ethernet link that was known to work. After several tries, that approach actually worked--my phone connected to the suspect unit rather than to the always-working unit. And the suspect unit, according to the web-based interface, was connected to the router by Ethernet. I then moved the suspect unit to one of its prior homes, where it had been useless. After a few more tries there, it now seems to be working. If so, I won't need the EAX15 range extender (as access point) in the next room. 

Thanks to you people, I seem to be on the road to success. Fingers crossed. And I discovered that I have household limits on what kinds of experiments I can try at different times of the day--I can't really announce that for an unknown number of hours I'm taking down Internet access in general, or even just Wi-Fi access for phones, tablets, Amazon devices, and whatever. Particularly when a snowstorm is keeping people indoors at home.

If I encounter more problems, I'll probably ask more questions. Thanks to @FURRYe38 and @KevinLiT for all the help. 

[FURRYe38]

That switch is 

• IEEE 802.3az Energy Efficient Ethernet

This feature seen on some switches can cause problems for Orbi systems. I'd try a switch that doesn't have this feature if you can find one. 

NG GS-105/108v4 and GS308v3, D-Link DGS-105/108 and HP ProCurve 1400/1800 series switches work for Orbi systems.

Also it's not recommended to mixed CAT cable versions. Besides CAT5 officially only supports 100Mpbs. Possible some issues maybe introducing problems here as well. 

Try connecting the RBS to the RBR if you can to by pass the in wall cabling and if you can with out your current switch or test with something suggested above to see if the problem continues. It shouldn't. 

RBS should be connected by one of the following methods:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy... 📡

[Bernie_in_MA]

Try connecting the RBS to the RBR if you can to by pass the in wall cabling and if you can with out your current switch or test with something suggested above to see if the problem continues. It shouldn't.

RBS should be connected by one of the following methods:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy... 📡

Argh. I wrote a long response, which then died somewhere. I'll try again.

1. Switches. The Netgear and D-Link switches you mentioned max out at 8 ports. I currently use more than that on my 16-port Trendnet switch. What 12-16 port switches would you suggest?

2. Mixing CAT cable versions. I can certainly swap out all of my CAT5 (and CAT5e, if necessary and I can tell them apart from the CAT5) patch and other cables for CAT6. 

3. Wall wiring in general will stay and continue to be used. So far, it doesn't seem to have meaningful effects on download speeds to computers on my network. I don't do gaming, so I'm not trying to eke out the last bit of performance. I just want the backhaul to work, since the Wi-Fi from my RBR50 (which has to be in my basement) can't reach my second floor adequately.

4. Slightly changing my network topology. This is something I tried based on your earlier suggestions, and I think it might have worked. In short:
a. Both the RBR50 router (in bridged mode) and the Trendnet switch are (and have been) patched directly into the Verizon FIOS router (which handles DHCP).
b. The "good" RBS50 satellite always was always (through the patch panel) to the RBR50.
c. The "bad" RBS50 satellite originally was patched (through the patch panel) to the Trendnet switch, which was connected to the RBR50 through the switch in the Verizon FIOS router. It's now patched (still through the patch panel) instead directly to the RBR50. In the diagrams you linked, I've now changed to the "star" topology. In my testing, I had tried what I know learn is the "daisy chain" topology, which led to my first success in getting the "bad" RBS50 satellite to work. Originally, I was trying to connect one RBS50 "directly" to the RBR50 (through the patch panel) and the other through my Trendnet switch.

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions. 

[FURRYe38]

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@Bernie_in_MA wrote:

Try connecting the RBS to the RBR if you can to by pass the in wall cabling and if you can with out your current switch or test with something suggested above to see if the problem continues. It shouldn't.

RBS should be connected by one of the following methods:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy... 📡

Argh. I wrote a long response, which then died somewhere. I'll try again.

1. Switches. The Netgear and D-Link switches you mentioned max out at 8 ports. I currently use more than that on my 16-port Trendnet switch. What 12-16 port switches would you suggest? I believe there are 24,48 and 52 port switches available as well. I have a 24 port that I use for my main home network.

2. Mixing CAT cable versions. I can certainly swap out all of my CAT5 (and CAT5e, if necessary and I can tell them apart from the CAT5) patch and other cables for CAT6. Most cabling has printing on the cable. 

3. Wall wiring in general will stay and continue to be used. So far, it doesn't seem to have meaningful effects on download speeds to computers on my network. I don't do gaming, so I'm not trying to eke out the last bit of performance. I just want the backhaul to work, since the Wi-Fi from my RBR50 (which has to be in my basement) can't reach my second floor adequately. If in wall cabling is of older cabeling or CAT5, this could cause problems in ethernet backhaul working right and performing due to condition and possible bad termination of the cable to the wall jacks. Again if CAT5 is being used, then officially it only supports 100Mpbs and may not be reaching the supported 1000Mpbs on the RBR and RBS and your switches.  

4. Slightly changing my network topology. This is something I tried based on your earlier suggestions, and I think it might have worked. In short:
a. Both the RBR50 router (in bridged mode) and the Trendnet switch are (and have been) patched directly into the Verizon FIOS router (which handles DHCP).
b. The "good" RBS50 satellite always was always (through the patch panel) to the RBR50.
c. The "bad" RBS50 satellite originally was patched (through the patch panel) to the Trendnet switch, which was connected to the RBR50 through the switch in the Verizon FIOS router. It's now patched (still through the patch panel) instead directly to the RBR50. In the diagrams you linked, I've now changed to the "star" topology. In my testing, I had tried what I know learn is the "daisy chain" topology, which led to my first success in getting the "bad" RBS50 satellite to work. Originally, I was trying to connect one RBS50 "directly" to the RBR50 (through the patch panel) and the other through my Trendnet switch.

Try swapping RBS with each other to see if problem follows with the RBS or not. 

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions. 

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