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Setting up Orbi backhaul

Setting up Orbi backhaul

Hi all

I have just bought the triple pack Orbi as my current Wi-fi is struggling to cope with demand. I am looking for advice on the configuration of backhaul I have planned.
I had hoped to connect one satellite via Ethernet to the Orbi router, simply because I can, but the second satellite will be in an area where wiring to is difficult, my assumption is that communication and backhaul to this satellite will be via the dedicated 5 ghz Wi-fi only. Is mixing the connection types likely to cause any negative effect on the performance overall ?

Another question I have is with respect to the inclusion of an 8 port Netgear switch (unmanaged), this will be part of the wired part of the network, my assumption up to now was that I would connect the wired satellite direct to the Orbi router via Ethernet and hang the switch off the second RJ45 off the satellite, rather than wire the 8 port switch to the Orbi router and hang the satellite off one off the ports of the 8 port switch, is my first thought the best way round ?

The obvious alternative for the system would be all dedicated Wi-fi backhaul and have the Ethernet dedicated purely to the 8 port switch and simply wired direct back to the internet modem.

any advice or pointers would be greatfuly accepted,

PS Also I assume that there are no known issues with the Wi-fi backhaul and potential interference with Sky Q backhaul channel ?

 

thanks again in advance for any advice and sorry if the above is long winded 

 

Iain 

Message 1 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Modem Combo Units: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Cable-Modems-Routers/What-s-the-Difference-Between-a-Cable-Modem-an...
This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

 

Be sure you connect any RBS wired to the back of the RBR directly or thru a switch. You can't connect the RBR and RBS in parallel to a switch infront of the RBR as the status reporting of the RBS will not work on the RBR. Any wired RBS needs to be serially connected behind the RBR.

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

Yes if you can directly connect the RBS to the back of the RBR, you can hang a switch of the back of the wired RBS. 

I would disable Daisy Chain on the RBR as well. 

 

30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 2 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

 
Message 3 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Hi again

reading first articles I think setting up the Orbi in AP mode may be the safest way forward, is there any real disadvantage over performance with this ?

Message 4 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

hi
First off all, thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply, very much appreciated. 

I have been trying to avoid mucking with the modem too much, I have a couple off applications that took a while to get setup and stable , and bearing in mind I know just enough to be dangerous I am scared to blow current config .

i had a scratch about the current set up (ASUS DSL-AC 68U) and there is no issue turning off the radios, and I can disable NAT, so maybe there is scope to modify the existing profile to avoid clashes and save me starting a brand new one again from scratch. The applications that I don't want to upset are security and heating applications that rely on settings through the router.

I assume I can keep the current modem doing DHCP duties so that all current ip's that are fixed remain so, and I also assume that the modem not doing NAT won't affect the applications that are ported through the modem?

sorry more questions lol .

i will read all the papers from the links you supplied and from these I am sure I will manage , I was tempted to go the ASUS mesh route as it appeared so much easier but cost and poor reviews sent down what now appears as a more technically challenging route, and I like a challenge 

 

thanks again 

 

Iain 

Message 5 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

IMO, if you want to keep things easy and working and stable, use the Orbi in AP mode. I presume during this time frame, stable network and ISP services is crucial and disabling the radios on the host router and letting it due the router duties while Orbi in AP mode will be the best suggestion for your needs. Later on when this time frame passes, then you could make some changes in the system. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 6 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Hi

yup reading the first article got me there, one thing that I have just got through the daisy chain comment is that the Orbi does not appear to be a mesh system as I had envisaged. I am a little surprised/disappointed in that (assuming my understanding is correct) I don't think it will kill my application or setup but I am not sure if the term mesh best describes the product - maybe it's just a play on words or maybe just me being grounded with other definitions of mesh networks.

dont think this will have me cancelling order but I am going to think a bit about my expectation vs what I am getting 

Message 7 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

What is your idea of MESH? 

Daisy chain is for two or more RBS piggy backing off each other out in a line and not in star formation. 


IMO it's a basic MESH system. Nothing ellaborate. It works for what it does. Most Home class systems are simplistic and nothing too complex, though Orbi sure has it's days of seemily being complex when troubleshooting. 

 

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 8 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

My take on mesh is that it's a self healing multi node network with intelligent optimising routing, each node is connected to as many other nodes as it can and has options to route traffic if one node has an issue, guess with only 3 nodes it's not such an issue and as you say for home use it will be fine and I am sure it will trounce what I currently have, once it's up and running I'll be like "meh" 

looking at the manual, there appears to be a lot to play with which can equate to a lot to go wrong , I am going to heed your advice , keep it simple get the basics working and then take it from there. Can you save/backup configurations, just in case a stray thumb causes issues ? Also can I do the initial setup of the Orbi before introducing it to the modem ?

thanks again for the support , it is appreciated 

 

regards 

 

Iain 

Message 9 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Ya thats enterprise and corporate MESH. You won't see that in home class MESH. 

Nice dream though. LOL

 

Yes, Backup configurations are highly recommended. Saves time when resets are needed.

Yes, you can manually setup the system before introducing the system to the modem. Something I prefer to do unless i'm testing something with a modem. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 10 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Thanks again , happy I can do the setup first , on first reading of basic guides i was not clear but happy I can get the basics done and hopefully have a straight forward transition (no laughing at the back please )

Message 11 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Just use a wired PC and you'll be fine. 

LOLOLOLOL. Smiley Tongue

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 12 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Cable looked out, new babies due Tuesday, will devise a plan of attack over the next 3 days, then completely ignore it in the fog of new gizmo utopia that will follow the delivery man throwing the parcel at my front door some 3 hours later than promised !

Message 13 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

This will be the rub when the box is delievered only to to stolen by some door dash theif. LOL. Smiley Tongue

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 14 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

They better be able to run fast ! Working from home, so no real worries I guess 😂😂 will still have to pause breathe and refrain from just plugging them in and shouting "perform you little miracle bundles " 😂😂 

Message 15 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

We'll keep our fingers crossed for you. Smiley Very Happy

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 16 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Will report results 

Message 17 of 37
theoak
Luminary

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

The one disadvantage with AP mode is that you will not be able to use Circle and Armor.  Instead, your router (non-Orbi) will need to be able to provide those functions, or some sort of other product.

 

I have the exact same setup.  One satellite wired, the other wifi.  Works great.  I have the bulk of my streaming devices on the wire now which frees up the wifi for the real mobile devices.  Works great.

RBK53 v2
Router Firmware: 2.7.2.104
Satellite Firmware: 2.7.2.104 (Satellite1: Wired, Satetellite2: WiFi)
Setup: DSL Modem (Bridge Mode) - Personal Router - Orbi (Access Point mode)
Message 18 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Hi, thanks for the feedback, I am glad that the wired & wirelss works together, this was one of the reasons I went Orbi instead of the ASUS route, with the ASUS it appeared that wiring a node meant that it disabled the deadicated backhaul and with my exisiting router being dual band I was not really gaining any advantage then, as t0 keep the wireless backhaul on the nodes, they would have to talk to the main router on a non dedicated 5 Ghz wirless  - which seems rather stupid. The ASUS modem does have interfaces for both control and access for kids and it has its own built in security that I have always switched off as I ust see it as another overhead - maybe with improved network I may switch it back on again, as a modem and router is is good-maybe I may update to something directly compatible with the Orbi, but thats cost I dont want to add at this time!

 

cheers

 

Iain

 

Message 19 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Hope the Orbi is working well now for you. 


@IainMcFarlane wrote:

Hi, thanks for the feedback, I am glad that the wired & wirelss works together, this was one of the reasons I went Orbi instead of the ASUS route, with the ASUS it appeared that wiring a node meant that it disabled the deadicated backhaul and with my exisiting router being dual band I was not really gaining any advantage then, as t0 keep the wireless backhaul on the nodes, they would have to talk to the main router on a non dedicated 5 Ghz wirless  - which seems rather stupid. The ASUS modem does have interfaces for both control and access for kids and it has its own built in security that I have always switched off as I ust see it as another overhead - maybe with improved network I may switch it back on again, as a modem and router is is good-maybe I may update to something directly compatible with the Orbi, but thats cost I dont want to add at this time!

 

cheers

 

Iain

 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 20 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Hi,
Only just arrived today, this evening will be connecting to router to set to AP and to disconnect daisy changing , will also rename the SSID ! Just read back today that you cannot have different SSID names !! Ah well I guess I have some extra work to do in connecting some bits and bobs !!
Message 21 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

Ok, You should be fine. Keep us upated on how it turns out. Ya, you'll need to set 1 SSID name so you'll have to go in to the devices and either change them to use the the SSID name or setup from scratch. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 22 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

So far so so I am afraid - getting all my 2.4 stuff back online is not happening easy, also seems to be dropping internet frequently, had put this down to firmware update but less sure . will persevere - need to work out how to switch of 5 Gz try to connect all the 2.4 stuff and see from there

 

Message 23 of 37
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

If you need 2.4Ghz only SSID, Netgear provides a simple mechanism to accomplish this:
Log into the Orbi web interface (http://orbilogin.net)
Navigate to the Advanced Tab, Advanced Settings, Wireless Settings
Uncheck the box, "Broadcast SSID on 5G"
Click "Apply"
All devices that are currently connected to the Orbi will remain connected.
On the smartphone, go to wireless settings and "forget" the Orbi SSID
Search for available WiFi networks. Select the Orbi WiFi. Enter the password. and connect.
If you are curious about whether the smartphone is actually connected at 2.4G, you have to wait a few minutes, because the "Attached Devices" display takes a while to update.
Open the app and set up the 2.4G device.
Once the device is connected and working as it should, reverse the steps.
Check the "Broadcast" box and click "Apply"
"Forget" the Orbi WiFi. Search. Enter password. Connect.

 

Be aware that there seems to be a time limit with some iOS or Android devices that will connect to the 2.4Ghz radio for a short period of time before changing automatically to the 5Ghz SSID, even though it's been hidden. The SSID is hidden only, thus the signal is still present. So you might want to also change the power output of the 5Ghz radio to 25%. Then connect your mobile device at a distance from the RBR to ensure the mobile phone keeps connected to the 2.4Ghz radio. After you get the IoT device connected, re-configure the system back to where it was.

 

 You might turn OFF RBS while working with the RBR and devices alone. If you can get it all connected. Then turn on the RBS. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router MK83+ (Router Mode) | and RBK853 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 24 of 37

Re: Setting up Orbi backhaul

I have tried both options but to no avail- instanly lost 13 client connections on switching over. I have tried to change the ssid of the 5Ghz but for some reason its not sticking- can only assume something in firmware preventing! that was my last resort.

looks like its back in the box and I will just have to scratch my head and see what is what as it stands which is a shame.

 

 

 

Message 25 of 37
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