Reply

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites

Dehart
Aspirant

Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites

I have the new Orbi RBR850 (AX-6000) with two satellites. I upgraded from the RBR50 as I had no issues with them. The new router was not cheap and it came at the cost of almost $1200.00 after few weeks for delay. Then once installed in AP mode the satellites would not sync with the router wirelessly unless it was few feet away. Only way you could sync the satellites was to run a direct ethernet cable between the router and the satellites. At additional cost of my own sweat and others I ran direct runs from satellites to the router so they could sync. This was not easy to run cables between the floors. Anyways once that was done I was sure to have good wi-fi throughout the house but I am comoletely disappointed. The satellites keep dropping connection to the router and the only way that I knew they did not work is when my wife or daughter complained about the speed. So I built a monitoring PC to monitor the satellites. Anyways after all this I was still having trouble so I started troubleshooting the network . packet sniffing and firewall logs show that the saytellites keep flipping the mac address every few minutes. One of the mac address is netgear and the other is make belief (fake). The reason I say this is becasuse someone may say it is some other device on the network. (I also set a tap on the network so there is no other device on that segment. ). Anyways I called Netgear support and after spending numerour hours and doing whatever they asked me to do they decided that the sarellites are faulty. I highly doubt that the satellites are faulty but something wrong in design. I insisted that they should escalate the call to the developers as this was not a tech issue but a design issue but I was not able to. Another thing that i noticed that the units keep sending data to netgear though these are in AP mode and no services from Netgear are needed for operation.

As for the support the techs that were on the call though not knowelagable were courteous. For the equipment exchage they opned two RMA's. At this time I am sure I am wasting $34, for RMA shipping time and inconvinience. Unfortunaly the home CFO will not let me spend money on another wi-fi solution so I am stuck with this peice of crap. If someone is reading through this please do not buy the AX-6000 platform. Additionally I am not sure why Netgear equipment is reaching out to netgear on the net. I have not had a chance to check the packet contents if it is NTP or any other port.

I have attached a log file from the router which clearly shows the mac address flipping. I have also reset the full system and reconfigured for the log as others may say that I need to reset the system and try so I have done it already and included in the log. I have underlined and changed color for the mac addresses below.

Thanks you 

 

2021-03-20T13:44:02 kernel arp: 192.168.1.3 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 to 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:41:28 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:41:06 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:39:49 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:39:03 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:36:26 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:36:17 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:35:19 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:35:15 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 to 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:34:50 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 to 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:33:00 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:32:57 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:31:38 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:31:00 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:30:56 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:30:52 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 to 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:30:44 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 to 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:30:06 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:29:11 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:29:07 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 to 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:28:41 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 to 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:28:38 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:28:26 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:27:44 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:26:51 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:26:25 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:26:21 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:26:17 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:26:01 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:25:18 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:25:13 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 to 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:24:35 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:23:39 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:23:34 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:21:53 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:21:39 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:20:34 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:19:54 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:17:05 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:16:05 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:11:23 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:11:10 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:07:51 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:07:47 kernel arp: 192.168.1.11 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 to 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:06:51 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:06:14 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:06:08 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:00:11 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:00:09 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:59:11 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:58:49 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:58:24 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:58:09 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:57:56 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:57:39 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:57:30 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:57:19 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:55:48 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:55:26 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:55:10 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:54:45 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:53:21 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T12:52:35 kernel arp: 192.168.1.12 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 9
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites

Please visit and post about this over in the Orbi AX forum:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/bd-p/en-home-orbi-ax

Thank you.

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 2 of 9
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites


@Dehart wrote:

I have the new Orbi RBR850 (AX-6000) with two satellites. I upgraded from the RBR50 as I had no issues with them. The new router was not cheap and it came at the cost of almost $1200.00 after few weeks for delay. Then once installed in AP mode the satellites would not sync with the router wirelessly unless it was few feet away. Only way you could sync the satellites was to run a direct ethernet cable between the router and the satellites.

 


I agree that Netgear customers who own the "AX" product are more likely to notice posts in the forum for the AX product (rather than this community of "people who have the old Orbi").

 

 Perhaps it would be worth revisiting why is the Orbi in AP mode?  Was it placed in AP mode before the satellites were connected?

The usual advice is to sync Orbi satellites over WiFi before connecting them with ethernet.  So, this Orbi system satellites would not sync over WiFi?  Really?

I love my Orbi.
Message 3 of 9
Ragar99
Luminary

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites

I see the exact same thing in my router logs, both satellites (RBS750) flipping macs back and forth from a netgear mac to an unassigned or make believe mac.

 

One satellite accounts for about 90% of the arp messages.  As far as I can tell the Orbi system is working fine.  I am in AP mode with an OPNsense router.

Message 4 of 9
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites

Any updates on this? 


@Dehart wrote:

I have the new Orbi RBR850 (AX-6000) with two satellites. I upgraded from the RBR50 as I had no issues with them. The new router was not cheap and it came at the cost of almost $1200.00 after few weeks for delay. Then once installed in AP mode the satellites would not sync with the router wirelessly unless it was few feet away. Only way you could sync the satellites was to run a direct ethernet cable between the router and the satellites. At additional cost of my own sweat and others I ran direct runs from satellites to the router so they could sync. This was not easy to run cables between the floors. Anyways once that was done I was sure to have good wi-fi throughout the house but I am comoletely disappointed. The satellites keep dropping connection to the router and the only way that I knew they did not work is when my wife or daughter complained about the speed. So I built a monitoring PC to monitor the satellites. Anyways after all this I was still having trouble so I started troubleshooting the network . packet sniffing and firewall logs show that the saytellites keep flipping the mac address every few minutes. One of the mac address is netgear and the other is make belief (fake). The reason I say this is becasuse someone may say it is some other device on the network. (I also set a tap on the network so there is no other device on that segment. ). Anyways I called Netgear support and after spending numerour hours and doing whatever they asked me to do they decided that the sarellites are faulty. I highly doubt that the satellites are faulty but something wrong in design. I insisted that they should escalate the call to the developers as this was not a tech issue but a design issue but I was not able to. Another thing that i noticed that the units keep sending data to netgear though these are in AP mode and no services from Netgear are needed for operation.

As for the support the techs that were on the call though not knowelagable were courteous. For the equipment exchage they opned two RMA's. At this time I am sure I am wasting $34, for RMA shipping time and inconvinience. Unfortunaly the home CFO will not let me spend money on another wi-fi solution so I am stuck with this peice of crap. If someone is reading through this please do not buy the AX-6000 platform. Additionally I am not sure why Netgear equipment is reaching out to netgear on the net. I have not had a chance to check the packet contents if it is NTP or any other port.

I have attached a log file from the router which clearly shows the mac address flipping. I have also reset the full system and reconfigured for the log as others may say that I need to reset the system and try so I have done it already and included in the log. I have underlined and changed color for the mac addresses below.

Thanks you 

 

2021-03-20T13:44:02 kernel arp: 192.168.1.3 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:76:f6 to 12:0c:6b:67:76:f9 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:41:28 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 to 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 on igb1
2021-03-20T13:41:06 kernel arp: 192.168.1.4 moved from 10:0c:6b:67:75:b6 to 12:0c:6b:67:75:b9 on igb1

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 5 of 9
raven_au
Virtuoso

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites


@Ragar99 wrote:

I see the exact same thing in my router logs, both satellites (RBS750) flipping macs back and forth from a netgear mac to an unassigned or make believe mac.

The "make believe" MAC addresses are reserved private MAC addresses.

 

They have started showing up with phones for aledged "improved security".

 

I've turned that functionality off on my mobile devices becuase I keep a table of MAC addresses of devices in my household so I can identify them.

Virtual Machines created on my NAS also use private MAC addresses which isn't suprising and works well.

 

Are you sure these private MAC addresses your seeing aren't actually from your local devices?

Message 6 of 9
raven_au
Virtuoso

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites


@raven_au wrote:

@Ragar99 wrote:

I see the exact same thing in my router logs, both satellites (RBS750) flipping macs back and forth from a netgear mac to an unassigned or make believe mac.

The "make believe" MAC addresses are reserved private MAC addresses.

 

They have started showing up with phones for aledged "improved security".

 

I've turned that functionality off on my mobile devices becuase I keep a table of MAC addresses of devices in my household so I can identify them.

Virtual Machines created on my NAS also use private MAC addresses which isn't suprising and works well.

 

Are you sure these private MAC addresses your seeing aren't actually from your local devices?


Being in AP mode it might be MAC address proxying/forwarding in combination with ARP causing the flip flopping ... it might not be a real problem ...

Message 7 of 9
Ragar99
Luminary

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites

I don't think I was clear, only two IPs flips MACs.  Those IPs are of the two Orbi Satellites.  Are you saying this is potentially caused by phones that are connected to them?

Message 8 of 9
raven_au
Virtuoso

Re: Mac address flipping on Orbi Satellites


@Ragar99 wrote:

I don't think I was clear, only two IPs flips MACs.  Those IPs are of the two Orbi Satellites.  Are you saying this is potentially caused by phones that are connected to them?


More or less, yes, possibly.

 

Those private MAC addresses must be coming from somewhere and we know phones and some other cases use these private MAC addresses. I certainly was surprised when I started seeing them show up in my clients list since O know the MAC addresses of my devices.

 

We don't know how Orbi handles ARP, it's a pretty complicated situation if you think about what has to happen.

There are 4 MAC addresses involved, the source MAC, the MAC of the source side of the Orbi, the destination MAC address and the destination side MAC address of the Orbi.

 

If a device on one side of a satelite wants the IP address of a device on the other side of a satelite then the satelite needs to respond to the ARP request either with the IP address of the device on the other side or with it's own address if it's behaving like a proxy.

 

It's complicated by the presence of wireless too, I also don't know how that's handled, maybe the Orbi doesn't need to proxy or pass the ARP responses on becuase it's a wireless broadcast that can bee seen by the station that wants it, but that's questionable since a device on the other side of a satelite might be too far away to see the broadcast, so trying to work out if what your seeing is a problem, a bug, or just logging noise is hard to know.

 

We just don't know what happens with this and given the stellar Orbi firware it's quite possible there's a bug (or three) in there.

 

It's probably worth working out which devices on the network are usmg these MAC addresses if any ... just so you know.

Message 9 of 9
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