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Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
I should start by saying I was only going to "look" at the SSH type of issue but as I stated I had not signed up to any past or present cloud service so I did not think it was applicable to my case at all. Thanks for the concern.
As for "gaming the system" How many customers is this So the initial reaction is that everyone is doing this.
Now on to the issue.
Support got back as I had an "in Warranty" device.
So What was requested was as I had i posted on that I plugin a range of USB disks into the two sets of machines OS6.5 and OS6.42 and send the logs.
I also took screengrabs of the web browser "response" and what windows explorer "sees"
"standard parameters" - Drives formatted NTFS plugged into top rear usb port, all bar the flash drive are powered devices all usb 3 devices
Additional info
Hot plug is - does the NAS see the USB drive when plugged in
Reboot- Does the NAS see the USB drive after reboot of NAS
1) Kingston 16K flash drive
Works on hot plug on insertion
All OK on both Firmwares SMB access via windows explorer
2) 2Tb WD Mybook 2Tb
Works on hot plug on insertion
All OK on both Firmwares SMB access via windows explorer
3) 3Tb WD Mybook 2Tb
Works on hot plug on insertion
All OK on both Firmwares SMB access via windows explorer
4) 5Tb Seagate Expansion Desktop Drive
NOT recognized By NAS's either hot plug or reboot on both firmwares
Recognized by windows and Linux PC's on direct attachment
OS 6.5 Not recognised hot plug, recognised reboot web-browser indicated SMB protocol active and shown on web browser share page but windows explorer does not see SMB share. Linux PC sees the share via nfs and the share is browsable via the web-browser as Stephen B points out this is HTTP
OS6.4.2 recognised on hot plug and works ok via windows explorer
6)CIT external caddy Model U3HD01 with bare 4Tb WD red formatted NTFS
OS 6.5 Not recognised hot plug, recognised reboot with smb access OK
OS 6.4.2 Not recognised hot plug, recognised reboot with smb access OK
So there is some sort of issue and in fact test 4 was a bit of a suprise.
However there is an issue an caused by OS6.5 and effectively I was refused service unless I paid for an issue caused by a Netgear Firmware update
I was refused any information on how to revert to 6.4.2 to resolve my issue in the "short-term"
If I did not have a machine in warranty I was told by netgear that I would have to pay. (this is in writing) The fact that the issue is firmware related is of NO consequence to Netgear.
THIS IS NOT THE RESPONSE EXPECTED ON ANY REASONABLE COMPANY and then we have the added implication that I am "gaming the System" All my machines are registerd on the netgear support site and they are 21 machines so I am probablyy not a "dodgy" customer I am a customer who has an investment in Netgear products. This is totally and uterly ignored in Netgear pursuit of support contracts In fact their view is as I have a large number of machines It is in my interest to purchase a support contract.
I also requested that this be passed on to the Complaints Department. This request was also ignored and actually answered with a total refusal to act on this matter and another request for me to pay for a support contract.
I amd reporting all this to the Company that supplied My NAS units, Amazon, and also to my local trading Standards body in my jurisdiction
I shall strongly request especially of Amazon that they contact Netgear as to my issue and also request further action on Netgear's shipping date postion and what it implies to a legitimate customer.
So is anyone going to help me revert to OS 6.4.2 for short-term resolution of my issue or do I sit here waiting for NAS failure and no back-up
So is anyone going to help me revert to OS 6.4.2 for short-term resolution of my issue or do I sit here waiting for NAS failure and no back-up
I think you can make a backup if you want (over the network).
The process of reverting is simple enough - just download the old fimware and manually install it. Netgear says "should not", but hasn't identified any issues that will occur. Still I'd think there is some risk.
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
If their procedure is to check warranty entitlement by validating a proof of purchase, it doesn't mean they imply that YOU are trying to cheat the system. It's just a procedure.
Now that you have proved you qualify for support and provided info, they'll be able to help you with the issue.
There is no "easy" way to downgrade a chassis to a previous major version. Downgrades between minor versions are "fibe" but not between major versions. Most of the time, the major updates, 6.2, 6.4, 6.5 include an update of the kernel. Some modifications may also occur on the BTRFS volume(s). Downgrading the firmware to an older major version may create issues as the OS can't manage the volume properly. For example, on 6.4.0, a new version of btrfs-progs was included and quotas were implemented on the volume(s). If you downgrade to a 6.2.x, you may run into issues as the kernel and btrfs-progs versions may not be recent enough. I'm quite sure NETGEAR won't be able to help downgrading a chassis, as stated in the Release Notes. If you REALLY want to downgrade, some people here managed to do so by performing a USB Boot Recovery AND a Factory Default (but you wipe all the data). But now that you have a support case open, I'd give them a chance.
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
I see that the notes for 6.5 indicated kernel updates that is why I wanted a bit more clarification as to the amount of changes that took place as to any dangers if I manunlly reverted to 6.4.2
As for the shipping date warranty issue. I have a significant number of units registered with Netgear and have been purchasing one unit every three months or so recently, So Netgear have evidence of a long term customer. as I register them on arrival. I fully understand the requirement of an invoice It was the date of manufacture stuff which was added blah blah blah combined with the intransigence as to any acceptance that a firmware update has caused a issue with five of my units. I have supplied proof of purchase before when a ReadyNAS NV+ v1 chassis crapped out. I was impressed with the service I recieved then. However the service and support I believe has rapidly gone downhill since then, IMHO and Stephen B has "scolded" me just a while ago about another complaint that I had. This issue is stiil going on by the way. The BTFS hook business. I have a solution to this though.
At least now Netgear have accepted that something is amiss but still no real acceptance that they should have done something about it without me making such a fuss as it is firmware related issue in something pushed out by them. It is purely that I have an "in Warranty unit" that I have got this far.
Another update on the issue. It is an smb issue as I activated ftp via the web browser on one of the attached USB units that I cannot see by smb and can see it in an via a FTP client , Filezilla and winscp for example
Anyway we will wait and see, don't hold your breath
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
As you can see looking at the GPL, the kernel update was a minor kernel update compared with what we did between 6.2.5 and 6.4.0. We are using the same LTS kernel series in 6.5.0 that we were using in 6.4.x, but a newer kernel in that series.
However in a major firmware update we may do some further tweaks like enabling/disabling kernel options and btrfs features (such as enabling quotas in 6.4.0) which could make a firmware downgrade not recommended.
Where a downgrade is not recommended you should update your regular backup before attempting any downgrade. Where we block downgrades (i.e. we currently block downgrades to older firmware than 6.4.0) it's because a downgrade would lead to data loss (or create a high risk of data loss).
Also if you use ReadyCLOUD please note that ReadyCLOUD now requires the use of 6.5.0 and later.
We would prefer if you keep at least one system running 6.5.0 so we can troubleshoot the problem you are facing with you. If we can confirm there is a bug we'd like to get it fixed in a future firmware release.
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104 #26893300
THanks mdgm
A further response from NETGEAR support but the kicker is " you may have to update your working "in warranty" unit to OS6.5
What Break it on purpose now!!! I have FIVE units with the issue so they need all my units not to work so that they may or may not fix it!!
But it still implies that really they want me to purchase a service contract to fix something that they rolled out
See full email and my response
Thank you for sending the logs and screenshots. Based from it, NAS 12, NAS 14, NAS 16 and NAS 17 have individual ICYBoxes connected to them via USB Port, right? And these were working before with 6.4.2, correct? And the problem seem to arise when the USB drive exceeds 4TB, right?
I will endorse you case to our higher tier for further checking. However, due to support entitlement policy, they may request that you update the firmware of NAS 21 to 6.5.0 as well. Nonetheless, please provide the following details so they can contact you:
My response
In fact in my nomenclature
NAS11, NAS12, NAS13, NAS14, NAS15, NAS16, NAS17 and NAS21 all have Individual Icyboxes attached to the rear usb port
NAS11, NAS 13 and NAS 21 were backing up at the time that I updated the firmware to 6.5 so they are still on 6.4.2 YES the Icyboxes were all working when the units were on OS6.4.2 as they are on NAS11, NAS13 and NAS21.
In fact they are working now it is SMB Access that is not working on 6.5 units on what would seem any usb drives greater than 4TB.
I should note that there is also an Icybox on NAS22 working perfectly and that is on a Readynas OS 5 unit
There is no way that I am going to update the firmware on the "in warranty unit" to effectively take that out of my system unless as I stated earlier NETGEAR send me the monies to purchase a an equivalent from another supplier or provide a replacement running 6.4.2.
Contact details .....
I am still stunned about the update to 6.5 on a working unit
OS 6.5 Not recognised hot plug, recognised reboot web-browser indicated SMB protocol active and shown on web browser share page but windows explorer does not see SMB share. Linux PC sees the share via nfs and the share is browsable via the web-browser as Stephen B points out this is HTTP
OS6.4.2 recognised on hot plug and works ok via windows explorer
This is the only one that is a regression, right? Not sure that an external RAID-5 array is what we would have in mind with USB support, but if it worked on 6.4.2...
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
Thank mdgm for aadding your weight behind this
I still have not got a email from Complaints Dept or any confirmation that it has been passed to them.
I was suprised about the Seagate Essentials 5TB drive I use this for PC backups so It was handy to try this I had never used it on the NAS system.
AS for the ICY Box units
As these are USB3 4 bay units and they can be configured as JBOD, Span, RAID 1, RAID 5 & RAID10
So rather than simply use span which I did use once and lost a disk and thus the whole backup so from then on I configure the units as RAID 5 which gives me the extra security.
They also have an esata port which is recognized by the NAS as effectively an expansion unit similar to the NETGEAR unit but I do not use this method or investigate it further
Yes they work on the NAS units and work perfectly in all the firmware revisions apart from OS6.5. There was one glitch along the way with one firmware which took out a significant number of customers usb ports completely which in fact NETGEAR restored and I appraised NETGEAR on this as well, I think that you were involved somewhere along the line.
In the end all that the NAS sees is a usb disk when connected by the USB3 Port rather than the esata which invokes the recognition of an expansion unit.
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
Update
Level 2 support are on the case now.
I have found a work around which is
Turn on FTP sharing on the usb drive and then add the share as a "network place" in windows explorer via the ftp// methodology.
However could not find the NAS unit at all then found it had crashed,simply locked up the lcd screen had some cryptic "alloc mem" message
So pull power and rebooted. As you can imagine I am ready to completely blow a gasket, BUT the unit started up again . Completed this connection and it works so i can drag and drop etc using this.
So onto support . Given remote access to support but prior as I was backing up another unit I took the redundant usb off the particular machine support wnat to look at, typical, So I safe eject one off of one of the "non" working Units
And you can guess what happened. Hot plug, connected and shows up in windows explorer.
SO...
safe eject and reconnect to the original non working unit BUT NO DICE even after reboot the same situation indicates that smb is on, tells me the drive is connected can see share/s using nfs and ftp but not smb.
So safe eject and put back into the one "working" OS6.5 machine. Hot plugs and all is right in the world on this machine.
Back on to non working machine , still no dice.
Not to be dismayed!! now start swapping the usb drives from the non working 6.5 machines to the one working 6.5 machinee. All are recognised, hot plug etc. But when put back to their respective machines not working
So for better or for worse
I have 3 working 6.4.2 machines ( that flash up do you want to update... NO>>>>>!!!) one working 6.5 machine (at present) and four non working 6.5 machines At least support can compare something and it would seem that it is a minor software issue , however will it be able to be found.
Part of my annoyance is that mechanically these machines are very good, a bit more plastic that the NV+ series but nevertheless. It is the firmware element which has been causing issues since at some point in the Introduction of OS5 and then on and also the change in the warranty conditions. This has lead IMO to NETGEAR dropping some way behind their competitors. I personally do not want a lot of apps etc but I do want something that is reliable for long term use. These current crop of OS updates all bring in something new to the party but the number of kernel crashes and cryptic messages whilst a machine is only idling is quite alarming for example the btfs hook thing, . let alone issues such this one.
As I stated I have made a sizeable personal investment in these units as they suit my particular requirement. I really only use them as basic storage/backup so I am not a power user,but even this seems to be on the limit due to the firmware/processor combination.
I have three synology units that are basically the equivalent same processor/memory and these have been sitting there doing their job for the past 4/5 years and I am pleased to say not a single problem even after their firmware updates. Synology have ihad broadly the same number in the period that Netgear have had including major changes to the OS. This was my view of the NV+ v1 units I love them and I still have seven going strong. I cannot ditch them even though the storage capacity is the limitation because I am sorry to say I do not have any faith in the current crop of Netgear machines and then there is the support arrangements. It was the stability of thse units that drew me into the investment in the Netgear NAS's. I am not asking for unlimited free support but there has to be a recognition somewhere that there are actual issues that are not down to the lack of technical ability of the customer. Perhaps my view is coloured by the stability of the Synology units but I do not think so.
Anyway I hope that This issue can be sorted soon
I will keep updating . You never know this may be of help to other "customers"
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
Support are on the case
It started on Monday for a couple of hours and from the meassges I was getting from the NAs units support were trying some basic stuff.
Then They said they will try again in the morning
Well after a couple of hours one of the non working units recognised the attached usb.
I was instructed to swap over usb drives an 8tb unit and an 12Tb unit to check and of course the one that was working was now not working but the "revived" one was ok.
But anyway it would seem that there is a bug somewhere which kicks in with large drives >4Tb?.
So I heard nothing since 10:19 this morning and I just re-inserted the usb into the non-working unit and it now connects.
So we may be on the way to a solution.
I have had no messages from support since the request to swap over drives so I do not know if they are still working on my units I assume so. But I am hopeful that a firmware fix will be out soon to fix the other three 6.5 units and permanently fix these two that are now working and allow me to update my remaining three units that are on 6.4.2.
I hope I have not spoken too soon
But credit where credit is due and a WELL DONE to support for tracking it down
Re: Firmware update to os 6.5 breaks SMB on USB connections RN104
Well I think it is only fair that when issues are fixed that thanks be due that they are made public as forums can tend to err on the side of a "moan-fest"
I will start by thanking the member of Support that dealt with my case I hope that I am not breaking any rules by naming them, Quin Hong. I would also tlike to thank the un-named R&D engineer that was also was involved and all the support staff that were involved in resolving this issue.
Of course in the end it was an "simple" fix In fact it involved a change of order of two lines in a configuration file but tracking these sort of things down can obviously be a nightmare, but they found it.
I was even told what to do. to correct my other units.
And the final "confirmation" was to update one of the OS 6.4.2 Units to 6.5 and edit the file
YES YES YES it works
It still begs the question "why does this only show up in disk's above a certain size",
(EDIT) Just been informed that it may be due to the size of the disk that extra delay is required. By changing the two lines that gives enough response time for the disc to be "fully" mounted
I also extend my thanks to all that contributed on this thread and to mdgm who escalated this.
Once I was "in the system " Netgear showed that they can work with the customer to resolve issues
Not to sour any praise but this is a "bug" in the firmware which I was unfortunate (fortunate for any other users who this may affect at some stage) to find and this I still believe the issue was addressed intially in a less than suitable manner.
Obviously my issue was initially very specific and Netgear has many many units with operating with a myriad of third party peripherals and disks, compatibility is always going to be an issue. And there is always the variability associated with the level of "user competence". Anyway it seems to be resolved and thanks again to all involved
I understand that the change in the configuration file will be incorporated in a later firmware update.
