Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

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scornwell wrote: 

To be clear, the issue @nxc is having happens every single time you upgrade to 1.2 or 2.X from an earlier version. It's a defect in the update process that should be obvious if they were testing correctly and it's an issue that I raised with them well over a month ago. It also requires a NVRAM reset, not just a factory reset to resolve.

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My updates to v1.2 and v2.x were fine, no problems, no need for any settings changes, so it doesn't happen for every update...it is apparently happening to enough people, though, that we're reading about it a lot *smile*. I don't agree about memory corruption as a result of the flashing process, that happens and will continue to happen, as I said, with the consumer-level hardware, my Orbi included. Just because you pay $400 for your router, that doesn't mean that you're getting enterprise level hardware, in this case that means that you're getting more consumer level hardware. You get 2 solid units in the basic Orbi package, which accounts for a good part of the higher price. The fact that when the Orbi works right it provides great wireless, and it has worked well for me nearly all the time I've had it, also makes it worth a little more than the cost of parts to me *smile*.

Anyways, I don't like to argue, I think that we're just going to have to disagree on this one. I don't excuse firmware bugs, by the way, I do excuse problems that happen because the hardware isn't targeted to the enterprise, since I'm not paying an enterprise price for it. I was specifically talking about resetting to factory defaults after a flash, not giving Netgear a pass for firmware bugs by any means. And yes, all router manufacturers should be testing as well as they can manage, and any problems that happen once should not happen again, since regression testing is one of the most important parts of mfr. testing.

I feel that I should add that the Orbi has worked well for me nearly the whole time I've had it, since late last year. I don't do exotic stuff with my router and wireless, but reliability, performance, and wireless coverage are important to me. The Orbi has delivered that for me, I'm sorry that others have had such difficult experiences. Yes, there was functionality that I miss removed from V1.12, but the basics of performance and reliability were still there for me. Again, I'm sorry that too many people had real problems with v1.12.

OK.  I tried to update using the beta version.  Everything seemed to upload OK; however, I'm still showing V1.12.0.18 for both the router and sats.  What am I doing wrong?

RogerSC That's because you're not using VLAN tagging and don't have a gigabit internet connection to test against. It does happen for every update, under the right circumstances. It's a consistently reproducible software defect. 

If the issue was memory corruption, the Orbi wouldn't have specific, reproducible issues, it likely wouldn't function at all.

I've been developing software for over 20 years, including controllers for aerial and submersible drones and other embedded systems. Memory doesn't just randomly corrupt in the way you're suggesting and there are ways of ensuring software updates are applied as intended.

This has nothing to do with enterprise vs consumer hardware, it's a software quality assurance issue and it shouldn't happen.

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scornwell wrote:

RogerSC That's because you're not using VLAN tagging and don't have a gigabit internet connection to test against. It does happen for every update, under the right circumstances. It's a consistently reproducible software defect. 

 

If the issue was memory corruption, the Orbi wouldn't have specific, reproducible issues, it likely wouldn't function at all.

 

I've been developing software for over 20 years, including controllers for aerial and submersible drones and other embedded systems. Memory doesn't just randomly corrupt in the way you're suggesting and there are ways of ensuring software updates are applied as intended.

This has nothing to do with enterprise vs consumer hardware, it's a software quality assurance issue and it shouldn't happen.

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I agree with your point about how I use a router, that's why I mentioned that I don't do anything exotic. 

By the way, I've worked for 45 years with computer software development and hardware, mostly on the enterprise end in OS design work and release engineering. HP, EMC, Intel, etc. I can't agree with you on your "memory corruption is only a software issue" point, that isn't my experience with flashing routers. So it goes.

No more from me on this one.

Please - somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong.  I'm typing this quickly, because I don't know when this Orbi is going to drop my connection again.  I tried to update my satellites and then my router to the beta.  Obviously, it didn't take, because it is still showing V1.12.0.18 on all devices.  I've done a reset on all three devices, but have not done the NVRAM erase settings since before trying the update.  Since trying to update, I'm in the same boat.  Satellites dropping in and out, connections to WiFi devices holding for 30 seconds to a minute or two and then dropping.  I disconnected the satellites again, and that seems to make it more stable.  If I can't resolve this tonight, then I have to go router shopping tomorrow. 

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RogerSC wrote:

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scornwell wrote:

RogerSC That's because you're not using VLAN tagging and don't have a gigabit internet connection to test against. It does happen for every update, under the right circumstances. It's a consistently reproducible software defect. 

 

If the issue was memory corruption, the Orbi wouldn't have specific, reproducible issues, it likely wouldn't function at all.

 

I've been developing software for over 20 years, including controllers for aerial and submersible drones and other embedded systems. Memory doesn't just randomly corrupt in the way you're suggesting and there are ways of ensuring software updates are applied as intended.

This has nothing to do with enterprise vs consumer hardware, it's a software quality assurance issue and it shouldn't happen.

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I agree with your point about how I use a router, that's why I mentioned that I don't do anything exotic. 

 

By the way, I've worked for 45 years with computer software development and hardware, mostly on the enterprise end in OS design work and release engineering. HP, EMC, Intel, etc. I can't agree with you on your "memory corruption is only a software issue" point, that isn't my experience with flashing routers. So it goes.

 

No more from me on this one.

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I never said memory corruption is only a software issue, so please don't present it as a quote. What I'm saying is memory corruption doesn't manifest like this and, if reproducible by applying a software change, can be avoided by changing that process. And even if corruption was happening, there are plenty of means of determining whether a software update has applied correctly and if not, alerting the user or rolling back. I've written, tested and pushed these sorts of updates many hundreds of times. 

VLAN tagging really isn't exotic, it's common for fibre and cable connections.

Anyway, it's not my intention to turn this into an argument, I think we agree that it's not acceptable that users have to telnet to their routers to get them back into a working state after an update, and that this whole crazy process has been taking way too long. 

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DarrellRiffe wrote:

Please - somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong. 

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It's pretty difficult to know what you've done wrong without knowing what youv'e actually done or what you did it to.

What hardware are you using and what process did you follow for the update?

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scornwell wrote:

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DarrellRiffe wrote:

Please - somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong. 

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It's pretty difficult to know what you've done wrong without knowing what youv'e actually done or what you did it to.

 

What hardware are you using and what process did you follow for the update?

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I have the RBK53 -1 RBR50 router and 2 RBS50 satellites.  I downloaded the beta firmware V2.0.0.64, unzipped it, unzipped the two folders (one for the router and one for the satellites).  I plugged in the satellites, found their IP addresses and went to the firmware update.  Loaded the beta firmware (RBS50-V2.0.0.64.img) into the update file section and then hit update - this for both satellites.  Then, I went to 192-168.1.1 (my router) and manually upladed the RBR50-v2.0.0.64.img.  After doing so, all showed V1.12.0.18.  I had trouble connecting the sats, so did factory reset on all three.  Still showed V1.12.0.18, but the sats keep dropping, and WiFi signal comes and goes.  Disconnected the sats, and things are stable with just the router.

Purchased RBK50 set a few days ago and hardware is auto-updated to V1.12.0.18, router connected to BT Smarthub and all parameters are at default settings . Speed has improved but sadly all my iOS devices (6 ipads and iphones in my family) keep dropping wifi on video streaming every few minutes. Thought it was signal strength and bought and other R30 as satellite but couldn't install it at all after 2 hrs of trial. Simply return everything and go back to my slower but reliable set of three AirPort Extremes. 

Voting on my feet to tell this company that no matter how excellent the hardware is and how positive those reviews are, the company simply shouldn't warp the hardware with inferior software and use us as guinea pigs to help them testing "official" but in fact beta version. 

Hello, I am struggling to find the beta download link. Can someone share it again?

DarrellRiffe, I'm glad to hear that you've found a good solution to the problems that you were having. Hope that the Linksys continues to work well for you.

Hello everyone.  I purchased the RBK50 system back in March and it worked fine until the last firmware update so for the last month or so its been sitting in my closet and I am using a single router that is working fine but of course I'd prefer to have my $350 orbi system going.  I have read throughout this thread that some of you were lucky to get a beta firmware sent to you by netgear.  I read that the only way we can get this firmware is to contact support through this forum? I tried that and whenever I input my serial number it shows that my complimentary 90 day support expired in June and it would not let me go any further unless I paid for some premium gearhead support......so am I correct in saying that I will have to wait until netgear releases their next firmware or is there another way I can get access to the beta firmware? any input much appreciated... thanks in advance!

Purely anecdata, but it seems like the best way to get their attention is to give it a one star review on Amazon.  They seem to monitor that much more than they monitor this forum.  

gbjackson, very true actually.

Although I did not leave a review on Amazon UK, I did use it to make contact and had a very quick response when dealing direct.

For that I have to give a big thumbs up to "NETGEAR Support Team" ( thanks Neil )

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Bing-Stroller wrote:

gbjackson, very true actually.

 

Although I did not leave a review on Amazon UK, I did use it to make contact and had a very quick response when dealing direct.

 

For that I have to give a big thumbs up to "NETGEAR Support Team" ( thanks Neil )

 

 

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Yes, Neil is a great guy, and has been a big help!

I'm glad others are having a better support experience than I am. My support guy is friendly and helpful enough, but he takes days to reply to any messages (I'm guessing he's pretty overloaded) and so far all he's offered up is an older version of the beta firmware that doesn't address my issues at all, not that that's his fault. The latest beta doesn't help either.

We're now a week shy of the two month mark and the situation still doesn't look great.

• Mods still haven't responded in any meaninful way, despite regular tagging. To be fair, I don't think there's much they can say. 
• Beta firmware appears to resolve some issues, but just like with V1.12.0.18 most of those fixes don't survive a reboot.
• The workaround which would have kept customers happy in the interim, allowing users to disable auto-updates, has not been implemented and doesn't look like it will be. Thsi is pretty unforgivable given how many customers are asking for it and how simple and quick it would have been to release. Policy first, customers second. 

So it seems Netgear know what we want better than we do and don't feel we deserve any transparency with regard to progress on the issues. This isn't the fault of the mods here, the community or support people were talking to, it appears to be awful, backward, company policy.

I've given up and moved on to Google WiFi, which so far is working great. The backhaul speed is marginally lower, but in real-world usage it's not at all noticable, and it's a happy compromise for a router that doesn't drop the internet connection at least once a day and doesn't have crippled internet throughput for those with gigabit fibre connections. The software is considerably more polished too, if that's important to you.

Unfortunately I can't sell Orbi in it's present state, so for now I'm stuck following this thread. 

Has anybody tried the AmpliFiHD setup?  I am leaning towards trying it.  Tired of the fighting the Orbi.

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Tigerman4LSU wrote:

Has anybody tried the AmpliFiHD setup?  I am leaning towards trying it.  Tired of the fighting the Orbi.

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I've heard good things about the eero gen 2. Both the pack with the one main unit and two beacons, or the pack with the three main units.

I would look into the IPv6 situation, though, before going that way, if you need IPv6 now. 

can't say I have many issues with the orbi either (touch wood). The main issue I had to start with was when the DHCP lease expired, eveything would disconnect for a few minutes but I've changed it to last 999 days. I've also set most of the devices (inc the orbi router & satelite) to use static IPs on my existing router (orbi is in AP mode). Unfortunately the existing router can only support 10 IP reservations hence why I had to extend the DHCP lease timeout period. Not sure if this help anyone. 

the only annoying thing now is that all devices which are connected to orbi are coming up as unknown

  My observations thus far

• So far for all my wireless devices (except my S8+ ) have worked well with the Orbi.
• Finding the "sweet spot" distance between the main hub and Satellite is key for having wide coverage and not having the devices step on each other.
• My S8+ drops all the time even after receiving Verizon's last update.
• Wired devices connected to the Satellite have HORRBILE performance (>10mbs), so much so I had to resort to an AC Extender.
• When performance becomes subpar you need to reboot the Orbi , which I now do weekly (would be nice to have a reboot scheduler)
• Once you open a ticket the support team seems very responsive, but is reluctant to push you to level 2 without much back and forth

For completeness, my Orbi is in AP mode sitting behind an Untangled u25 router. I have gone through a complete refresh of the firmware including an nvram reset and I am running Firmware 1.12.0.18.

My firmware requests

• Ability to designate 2.4 from 5 ghz wireless networks (much like what is being offered in the Orbi Pro, same hardware different packaging)
• Ability to turn down the 2.4 signal strength, it currently swamps the 5ghz at distances where 5ghz would perform better.
• Ability to choose if you want to update to the next Firmware update
• Ability to reboot devices on a schedule (would be better if you didn't have to reboot boot but this is consumer grade hardware)
• Better monitoring tools in both web ui and phone apps
• Stop dropping my Samsung S8+

I am hoping that support will send me the links to the new beta firmware that is to be released shortly so I can see if there is any improvement.

Also 90 days of Hardware support is ridiculously short for a device of this cost and that is provided with the current subpar firmware. 6 months would have been more appropriate since we are all, in essence,  beta testers at this point. 

I think what we are all experiencing here is a company trying to push out all their shiny new hardware before they have the supporting firmware fully baked. 

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jdpg2 wrote:

 

  My observations thus far

• So far for all my wireless devices (except my S8+ ) have worked well with the Orbi.
• Finding the "sweet spot" distance between the main hub and Satellite is key for having wide coverage and not having the devices step on each other.
• My S8+ drops all the time even after receiving Verizon's last update.

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I agree with all you've said, except my Chromecasts, Echos/Dots, Surface Pro (2017) and Surface Pro 3 all have had problems with the 1.11 and above firmware UNTIL the 2.00 beta.

Now, everything is back to rock solid, EXCEPT the S8+.  The Verizon update from Samsung had no effect on WIFI since nothing was included in the update that affects WIFI (this is verified by Samsung themselves).

So now, Orbi is back to being well behaved except for the S8+ as it was prior to 1.11.x.