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Forum Discussion
tln741
Nov 12, 2017Star
Orbi - why can't we change channels on satellites?
Wireless design best practice when installing multiple access points in an area is to have non-overlapping channels. So if you have 3 APs (RBR50, 2-RBS50) in an area, for 2.4 GHz, one AP would be cha...
ekhalil
Jan 01, 2019Master
molec wrote:
...........
This is circualar reasoning? WHY are the satellites acting as Repeaters/Extenders? It's by design choice of Netgear, I assume.
Anyone who says that Orbi is a repeater/extender does not know how Orbi works. It's simply not a correct statement.
The orbi Satellites work as access points (APs) in a mesh network and the Orbi Router is the main controller which manages the whole network and controls the roaming of devices between the APs.
This is the main idea of all mesh systems. Some vendors chose to have different channels for every AP but Orbi chose to have one single channel for every band.
The main reason -I think- why Netgear chose this option is to reduce the number of roaming events. Orbi is made for home users and -usually- you will have multiple APs in a relatevely small area so the overlap between the APs is -usually- quite big and therefore devices will keep hopping between the APs if they have different channels (because devices will keep comparing the levels of the signals between the 2 bands of the APs and hop to the AP which has higher level) which will affect the performance of mainly the mobile devices (and consequently the battery life of the devices) and also the performance of the whole netwrork.
By choosing to use the same channel the devices will not need to do too many roaming activities.
On the other hand, in enterprise solutions, the AP's are usually assigned different channels because usually a radio planning is done and the coverage is well studied in advace to make sure the overlap is just enough to cover the whole enterprise.
It's very simple for Netgear to set a channel for every band in Orbi. In fact I tried to set a channel for every satellite in my Orbi (using telnet commands) and had it for couple of hours and I noticed the amount of roamings the devices needed to do. In certain locations of the home one of my static devices made up to 3 roamings per minute while not moving!
So in summary, assigning channels for every AP is good only when you have good radio planning, but otherwise having one single channel is much more effective.
I believe that Netgear can make this as configurable settings, which will mainly benefit those who have big areas to cover, but can give negative impact for people who will use this functionality without enough radio knowledge and tools.
molec
Jan 02, 2019Guide
ekhalil wrote:
molec wrote:
...........
This is circualar reasoning? WHY are the satellites acting as Repeaters/Extenders? It's by design choice of Netgear, I assume.
Anyone who says that Orbi is a repeater/extender does not know how Orbi works. It's simply not a correct statement.
The orbi Satellites work as access points (APs) in a mesh network and the Orbi Router is the main controller which manages the whole network and controls the roaming of devices between the APs.
This is the main idea of all mesh systems. Some vendors chose to have different channels for every AP but Orbi chose to have one single channel for every band.
The main reason -I think- why Netgear chose this option is to reduce the number of roaming events.
Is this the reason why I'm sitting next to one of the satellites still connected to the base station at -65dB and a latency of 3 seconds?
> By choosing to use the same channel the devices will not need to do too many roaming activities.
but I WANT them to!
> I believe that Netgear can make this as configurable settings, which will mainly benefit those who have big areas to cover, but can give negative impact for people who will use this functionality without enough radio knowledge and tools.
what's wrong with CHOICE? I think the NG devs are just lazy and/or incompetent at this point.
- ekhalilJan 02, 2019Master
molec wrote:
............
Is this the reason why I'm sitting next to one of the satellites still connected to the base station at -65dB and a latency of 3 seconds?
............
Yes, it's the devices' choice
molec wrote:> By choosing to use the same channel the devices will not need to do too many roaming activities.
but I WANT them to!
......
Again, it's the devices choice to move or not to move! For devices that choose to move it's better to minimize the roaming events as much as possible. For sticky devices the router has not much to do.
molec wrote:
......what's wrong with CHOICE? I think the NG devs are just lazy and/or incompetent at this point.
Yes, giving the choice can be good!
- schumakuJan 02, 2019Guru - Experienced User
ekhalil wrote:
molec wrote:
............
Is this the reason why I'm sitting next to one of the satellites still connected to the base station at -65dB and a latency of 3 seconds?
Yes, it's the devices' choice
molec wrote:> By choosing to use the same channel the devices will not need to do too many roaming activities.
but I WANT them to!
......
Again, it's the devices choice to move or not to move!
What device are we talking about here molec ?
There is an information Microsoft ref. Windows 10: WLAN Feature Information. Fast Roaming with 802.11k, 802.11v, and 802.11r (valid similar to almost any other platform) with a nice note:"Things to note
Not all Windows 10 devices support 802.11k, 802.11v, and 802.11r. The WLAN Radio driver must support these features to enable them to work on Windows 10. Please check with your device manufacturer to determine whether or not your device supports these features. In addition to device-side support, the network (AP Controllers and APs) must also support the features for the experience to work. Please check with your network administrator to see if these features are supported and have been enabled on the network in question.
Windows 10 continues to support Opportunistic Key Caching (OKC) when 802.11r is not available on the device or the network.
All three features require AP-side support and will not work without those features enabled on the APs."
- molecJan 02, 2019Guide
schumaku wrote:
ekhalil wrote:
molec wrote:
............
Is this the reason why I'm sitting next to one of the satellites still connected to the base station at -65dB and a latency of 3 seconds?
Yes, it's the devices' choice
molec wrote:> By choosing to use the same channel the devices will not need to do too many roaming activities.
but I WANT them to!
......
Again, it's the devices choice to move or not to move!
What device are we talking about here molec ?
I's a thinkpad X1 carbon bought late 2017. wifi chip:
04:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 8265 / 8275 (rev 88)
running recent archlinux
I'm sitting 5 meters from satellite 1. Connected to orbi router about 15 meters away through 3 stone walls. Here's connection info:
wlan0 IEEE 802.11 ESSID:"temp"
Mode:Managed Frequency:5.18 GHz Access Point: 8C:3B:AD:C2:C0:46
Bit Rate=12 Mb/s Tx-Power=22 dBm
Retry short limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off
Power Management:on
Link Quality=25/70 Signal level=-85 dBm
Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0
Tx excessive retries:9 Invalid misc:493 Missed beacon:0ping latency is good (3ms), but you can see bit rate dropped to 12 Mb/s and signal is -85dB
a screenshot of the setup is attached
my oldish android phone (nexus 5) is at the same location as the laptop and is connected to satellite 1, so that roamed fine.
when I put laptop into suspend and wake it up, it will connect to satellite 1 (in earlier tests)